Self Quant Redux: HRV

[vgpedlr]

Jeff, I am curious why you decided to try tracking HRV? To measure your response to exercise? To monitor lifestyle stress? Are there other uses of it for health? Have you had any aha! moments where HRV taught you something unexpected?

I've been tracking HRV most of the time for a few years now, with some interruptions when I lost the equipment, or when in a period of low training volume /intensity. I started with iThlete, and switched to Sweetbeat, using a Bluetooth Polar strap. I've listened to a few interviews with the Sweetmeat founder, and and she is insistent on reminding people that HRV scores are highly individual, not to be compared with others. You have to watch your own score and learn through observation what affects it.

I find it quite useful. I measure for 3 min. per instructions while lying in bed before rising. It gives me a "second opinion" about my health and fitness status. If it goes down 2 days in a row, then the app warns me, and through experience I have learned that HRV can sometimes predict problems that might occur, giving me a chance to recover before something bad happens. For instance, I typically run 60-70 for my score. If I drop into the 50s, even if I feel good, I know to back off. Last week I picked up a stomach bug, and my HRV crashed to 40, as it will when sick. I'm better now, but my HRV is still a bit off, so I know not to push too hard. Fri. night I went to see a live band and was out late. I woke feeling good (I thought) but my HRV was terrible, which reflected poor sleep. So no Moab single track yesterday, recovery needed. Today I'm back up, so time to hit the trails.

Maffetone asserts that HRV is a good indicator of overall health and aerobic fitness, and as aerobic fitness improves, HRV goes up. That has been my experience too. It also measures stress in its totality as the body experiences it, and not compartmentalized as our minds try to rationalize it. So it can help prevent overtraining when the stress isn't necessarily from workouts, but "life." As for higher intensity training or strength training, the results aren't clear for me.

I hope that you will share any insights as you go. Two months isn't that long, but it should be long enough to have a baseline so that you can see what raises and/or lowers your HRV.

[JeffN]

I have no interest at all in tracking anything new (and track much less the before) but since I already had the equipment to do this, I did a 60 day experiment.

As you saw in my post, all my numbers came in above average for my age group, especially considering the majority of the population tested.

I never had a "low" score except on the morning after a day where I had to get up at 4 am (after working late the night before), flew cross country all day, got in late, went to bed late and then got up early and this next morning was my only low reading. I didn't need the app to tell me to take it easy that next day.

Or maybe I don't train hard enough or maybe I just take such good care of myself in all areas (sleep, rest, relaxation, diet, exercise, relationships, etc), are sensitive enough to all of them and know myself so well.

In spite of what some others may say, I don't see any convincing evidence in the literature that HRV is going to add anything to my assessment of my health and how to take care of myself. I would encourage you to (re)read the full thread on Self Quantity where I discuss this.

As I said in the original post, "I am only looking to maintain my level of health and fitness" and all my markers and other results (and now these results if they are worth anything) tell me I do an excellent job of that.

In Health
Jeff

[JeffN]

In spite of what some others may say, I don't see any convincing evidence in the literature that HRV is going to add anything to my assessment of my health and how to take care of myself. I would encourage you to (re)read the full thread on Self Quantity where I discuss this.

And this one on Effect Sizes

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28413&start=15#p377392

And this one on, Buying A Ticket To Heaven...

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28413&start=15#p383257

Also, someone sent me a message and said I should do a little experiment to test the accuracy and validity of the measuring HRV through the app with the HR monitor. They suggested an experiment to do for a few days which I will, and report back probably next week.

They said to do the experiment, when you wake up, take your 2.5 minute reading. Then, without changing anything (position, movement, breathing, etc), delete the reading and retake it. Do it 3-5 times in a row without changing anything and you will get widely varying readings from a 10, to a 3 on one side to a 5 on the other side. Then do it several more mornings and also to do the same test sitting around later using the one minute open reading.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was true as my experience with most of these app/tracking program is that are not accurate.

In Health
Jeff

[vgpedlr]

I have no interest at all in tracking anything new (and track much less the before) but since I already had the equipment to do this, I did a 60 day experiment.

So you had a least a little bit of interest, at least 2 months worth, right?

As you saw in my post, all my numbers came in above average for my age group, especially considering the majority of the population tested.

Ronda Collier of Sweetbeat admonishes people not to do this. She insists people only compare their own scores. It's a snapshot of the current situation, not an end goal.

Or maybe I don't train hard enough or maybe I just take such good care of myself in all areas (sleep, rest, relaxation, diet, exercise, relationships, etc), are sensitive enough to all of them and know myself so well.

I have no doubt about this. Where I (and others) find it useful is when some of those variables are in flux, it offers a "second opinion" not so easily subject to rationalization and other mind tricks. In the off season, when I train in maintenance mode, I often skip it. For instance, recently my HRV dropped to about 60 and stayed there for a couple of days. That is lower than usual, but not a crash. It gave me pause to figure out what was going on. It wasn't one thing, like a race, but a combination. Travel stress, environmental stress from the Moab desert heat, tough technical MTB trails, some family stress, less than ideal food. None of these things individually amount to much, but cumulatively they did, and HRV reflects that, whereas my mind will continue to separate and compartmentalize them as unrelated.

As for repeat testing, I've repeated tests a number of times in the past with no significant difference. Curious to see your experience.

[JeffN]

I have no interest at all in tracking anything new (and track much less the before) but since I already had the equipment to do this, I did a 60 day experiment.

So you had a least a little bit of interest, at least 2 months worth, right?

Not really. All I had to do was open an app and let it run for 2.5 minutes in the morning while I had my chest strap on, both of which (my phone and the chest strap) are used every morning when I go work out. If it required any more effort, I doubt I would have bothered.

I don't think any of us need anything "more" to know to help us or convince us to lead this lifestyle, or to further validate what we already know.

For instance, they are always discovering some new aspect of highly processed foods &/or animal products that is unhealthy or some new aspect of plant foods that is healthy and presenting it as, well now we really have a reason to change, as if we don't have way more then enough already. Same with fitness. If anything, we just need to get the mostly sedentary population up and moving around and we have plenty of enough data to support that.

As for repeat testing, I've repeated tests a number of times in the past with no significant difference. Curious to see your experience.

I've run the experiment a few times now and my results are as varied on repeat tests as suggested they would be. To be sure there was no other confounders, I made sure the phone was fully charged, the chest strap had brand new batteries and made sure there was no other variable other then just hitting delete on the score and then starting again. I did it on several days and while I thought I took screen shots of the results, they are not on my camera roll. I saw wide swings from both sides of the scale. I could accept going from a 3 to a 4 or a 2 on the same side but not from a 2 or 3 to a 9 or 10. Or from a 4 on one side to a 5 on the other side.

Like with the readings for calories, HR, steps, sleep analysis, etc on the current "state of the art" fitness trackers, I don't see this as anything valuable other than if someone enjoys playing with the numbers for fun

In Health
Jeff