When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

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When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

Postby JeffN » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:55 pm

When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

When it is a WFPB restaurant.

I had a conversation today with the chef and/or owner of a fairly new WFPB restaurant chain. Overall, I think they are doing a great job offering food that is much healthier and cleaner.

However, they posted today on FB about their WFPB, no added oil, no added sugar food, which showed up in my newsfeed, and that all their food was prepared with out any added oils, or any added sugars.

I went and checked their menu, nutritional info, ingredients, etc and saw this claim was impossible to be true and so, posted, asking a few questions. The owner responded and admitted that *they" did not add any "added sugars" during *their* in-house cooking process but did admit that the bread products did come with some small amount of added sugars in them (NOTE: from my perspective, quite a bit) but it was required in some cases to get the yeast to work. Some of the bread products list up to 17 grams of sugar per serving with many between 10-14 grams per serving (which is listed at their website).

I said, this was misleading and if you said your food was "no sugar added" then as a customer who is caring about my health, I expect that to be true 100%, not to be a misleading claim based on a technicality of words (or semantics).

He said, he was doing the best he could, was unable to find any commercial products that were 100% and, he had approval from one of the WFPB docs who said it was acceptable. To me, the issues is not whether the amount is acceptable, but whether the claim is true.

I told him that there are commercial products that are 100% compliant and that there are Artisan Bakers popping up all over that will make breads that are 100% complaint. I have a local baker here who makes a full variety of them, all 100% whole grain, gluten free, no sugar added, very low sodium (which was another issue we can save for another day). I told him my background, my experience, my work with all the leading WFPB programs and that most all of them use guidelines that were developed by me, and that I was willing to help him. I also said, I would like to know how they sweeten their BBQ sauce if there are no added sugars in it. (my guess is that it is the same issue, or they are using a sugar like maple syrup, which they are not counting because some think it is "natural.")

My concern was not whether the amount was acceptable or not but that the claim he was making was misleading and false, 100%.

I explained that years ago, when Fast Food restaurants had to stop using trans fats, they stopped using oils with trans fats to fry in and made claims that their fries were "trans fats free." However, an investigation into them, found that while they did stop using oils with trans fats in them, they were buying frozen french fries that were pre-fried (blanched) in oil that had trans fat in it so the french fries came with trans fats in them. Analysis of the french fries showed this to be true. These restaurants were forced to change their ways as their claim was not accurate, their fries were not trans-fat free.

Again, I think they are doing a great job but I think this situation with the statement, "no added sugars" needs to change.

However, the thread was deleted.

Moral of the story... Just because they promote themselves as WFPB, Vegan, Vegetarian, Local, Organic,(even use the name of one of the WFBP MD's), etc etc, doesn't mean they are telling you the whole story. Ask, ask again, and double and triple check. These restaurants also have to make profit and survive in one of the toughest industry there is with a very high failure rate.

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Re: When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

Postby Ltldogg » Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:52 pm

Agree!
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Re: When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

Postby NickS » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:29 pm

Jeff, I almost took a picture at a similar Vegan restaurant chain just to send you. They had a jar of sugar crystals out as a condiment, and had it labeled "Unrefined Sugar". :)
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Re: When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

Postby JeffN » Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:31 am

NickS wrote:Jeff, I almost took a picture at a similar Vegan restaurant chain just to send you. They had a jar of sugar crystals out as a condiment, and had it labeled "Unrefined Sugar". :)


Send away!

My email is at my website

I get that "vegan" restaurants do this and to be honest, it doesn't surprise me. But when a restaurant claims it is providing WFPB with no oil or added sugar, and every item on the menu comes served in a bread product that has quite a bit of added sugar, that's just not acceptable.

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Re: When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

Postby JeffN » Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:53 am

JeffN wrote: I also said, I would like to know how they sweeten their BBQ sauce if there are no added sugars in it. (my guess is that it is the same issue, or they are using a sugar like maple syrup, which they are not counting because some think it is "natural.")


A little more digging...

"We also do not use added oils or added sugars in our recipes.”

"we do so choosing….. natural sweeteners like applesauce or agave instead of refined sugars"

OK, i get the applesauce but agave?

That is the *worst* of the available sugars.

Agave: Health Food, Health Fad or Health Fraud?
by Jeff Novick, MS, RD, LD/N

http://jacknorrisrd.com/agave-health-fo ... lth-fraud/

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Re: When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

Postby JeffN » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:44 am

When is a dish with "added oil" counted as "oil" free?

When it is a WFPBNO event.

This tidbit was just shared with me.

"The chef, on the last night [of the WFPBNO event], was sharing with me that the whole no oil is stupid and was adding a little oil anyway."

I am not surprised.

Caveat emptor!

To control your health, you have to control your food.

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Re: When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

Postby JeffN » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:19 am

This was just posted by someone in the Vegan movement who is fairly well known. Knowing this person, I am quite sure they were as clear as possible in describing their needs.

"I feel defiled, disgusted, sick. A group of us (all vegan) just ate dinner at a Chinese restaurant in Petaluma called Flowering Tea House. First time -- I had heard they had a big vegan menu, which they did, featuring lots of meat substitutes. I was excited and happy that a local eatery would have vegan options. They had a sign in front reading "Vegetarian Menu Available." The lady gave us a separate vegan menu when we told her were we were all vegan. We confirmed that all the dishes were vegan and not just vegetarian. And then after a few bites of the popcorn "shrimp" and "beef" with bittermelon, we wondered if it was really vegan. We asked, and the lady said that it was real shrimp and beef. We felt sick. We argued with her because we had ordered the vegan shrimp and beef off of the vegan menu, but she acted as if she hadn't understood although it was clear she had. The level of denial was hard to believe and made no sense, since everything we ordered was on the vegan menu."

I was telling my wife this story and she reminded me of a similar one we had about 6 years ago. We were in Iowa and heading home from a vacation and went to this Japanese restaurant on the way to the airport. While I avoid most restaurants unless they know me and I know them and we have discussed what we want, I think Japanese are often the safest. We order a steamed edamame with no salt, which we reviewed with the waitress. They brought it out and the edamame looked moist, which I thought might be from the steaming. I put one in my mouth and immediately spit it out as it tasted weird. I called the waitress over and asked her about it. She said, "these are no salt, that is it. Nothing else. I wrote it down (which she showed me) and ordered it that way." I said, there is something on these, just look. She went and talked to the chef, and he said that being he thought the edamame without salt would be bland, he steamed them and then tossed them in chicken broth.

Again, and always, Caveat Emptor.

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Re: When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

Postby Drew_ab » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:15 am

I had an experience at a vegan restaurant that seems to fit this thread well. The restaurant was labelled as plant based, the genetleman who served me talked about going vegan, watching Forks Over Knives, be familiar with T Colin Campbell's work, etc. Additionally, his daughter (and head chef) has a certificate in plant based nutrition from Cornell University. So we're all good right? It's easy to see why I assumed my meal would be plant based and low SOS.

As someone who's had open heart surgery twice (2 valve replacements), I am quite sensitive to things that impair endothelial function (oils, heavy weightlifting, coffee, intense stress, etc). While I don't have coronary artery disease, I do develop angina due to some narrow strictures in my slightly modified heart physiology.

While eating I should have known the food was too good to be true. It tasted pleasure trap rich, and I paid for it with chest discomfort for several hours after. Since I've eaten this way for 6.5 years, it's easy to connect the dots.

It's very frustrating!
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Re: When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

Postby JeffN » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:13 am

Drew_ab wrote:I had an experience at a vegan restaurant that seems to fit this thread well. The restaurant was labelled as plant based, the genetleman who served me talked about going vegan, watching Forks Over Knives, be familiar with T Colin Campbell's work, etc. Additionally, his daughter (and head chef) has a certificate in plant based nutrition from Cornell University. So we're all good right? It's easy to see why I assumed my meal would be plant based and low SOS.

As someone who's had open heart surgery twice (2 valve replacements), I am quite sensitive to things that impair endothelial function (oils, heavy weightlifting, coffee, intense stress, etc). While I don't have coronary artery disease, I do develop angina due to some narrow strictures in my slightly modified heart physiology.

While eating I should have known the food was too good to be true. It tasted pleasure trap rich, and I paid for it with chest discomfort for several hours after. Since I've eaten this way for 6.5 years, it's easy to connect the dots.

It's very frustrating!


Agreed.

Thanks.

I have had the same experience in WFPB NO SOS restaurants.

And, the same experience in evaluating recipes that people claim are WFPB NO SOS (or even Low SOS).

Then, when I tell them, some of them get very mad at me. Some just stop asking my opinion :)

I mean, they can do whatever they want but if your product should meet the standards you claim it does, if not, just don't call it what is isn't. Otherwise, we are just one of "them."

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Re: When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

Postby JeffN » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:57 pm

A friend of mine is visiting a city that is almost always in the top lists of vegan cities in the USA. He is at a restaurant that is always on the list of the top vegan restaurants in that city.

When he went in, he asked and they said, their is no sugar, salt or oil in their food. He texted me to see if I knew if this was true as he knows I have been there before. I said, from my experience and memory, I think they are oil free, but I know they have salt and I believe there is some sugar in their food. He went and asked again and they repeated, no sugar, salt or oil. I said, they probably use some exotic salts and/or "natural" sweeteners that they don't count. You may have to ask the manager or chef or ask to see the recipes. He did and wrote me back and said, "I read the ingredients list and there is miso, brown rice syrup, maple syrup, fruit juice and some of the items had coconut oil."

Again, and always, Caveat Emptor.

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Re: When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

Postby gracezw » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:24 pm

Thank you Jeff! It is always easier for me not to eat at a restaurant. I can save time and energy making a huge effort trying to figure out their real ingredients.

JeffN wrote:A friend of mine is visiting a city that is almost always in the top lists of vegan cities in the USA. He is at a restaurant that is always on the list of the top vegan restaurants in that city.

When he went in, he asked and they said, their is no sugar, salt or oil in their food. He texted me to see if I knew if this was true as he knows I have been there before. I said, from my experience and memory, I think they are oil free, but I know they have salt and I believe there is some sugar in their food. He went and asked again and they repeated, no sugar, salt or oil. I said, they probably use some exotic salts and/or "natural" sweeteners that they don't count. You may have to ask the manager or chef or ask to see the recipes. He did and wrote me back and said, "I read the ingredients list and there is miso, brown rice syrup, maple syrup, fruit juice and some of the items had coconut oil."

Again, and always, Caveat Emptor.

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Re: When does "added sugar" not count as "added sugar?"

Postby JeffN » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:24 pm

gracezw wrote:Thank you Jeff! It is always easier for me not to eat at a restaurant. I can save time and energy making a huge effort trying to figure out their real ingredients.


That is an option.

I don’t go out to eat much and not at all since Covid-19.

However, when I do, I find it quite easy to get a meal out but, the meal I get is one that most people don’t want, even in the WFPB community. They want it fancier, tastier, etc. Whether it is plain steamed rice and steamed veggies, or a baked potato and a salad, it is fairly easy to do.

My mother and I had 3 favorites we would go out to where we always got a great meal without any effort. There were Wendy’s, Sweet Tomatoes and Beverly Hills Cafe. Sadly, Beverly Hills Cafe closed a few years ago and Sweet Tomatoes closed a few months ago. I have a few more I can add to this list but I think you get the point.

The main reason I will visit a restaurant is not for the food, as my wife says she married the best chef she has ever known, but for the atmosphere, It is nice to get out and spend time with my wife without having to fix the food and clean it up.

The main thrust of this thread is that one must be very careful and that even in a WFPB/Vegan restaurant, everything may not be as it seems.

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