The Importance of Evidence

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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby JeffN » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:20 pm

While I agree with you on the importance of filters, which is part of my point of the above, I would say time is not on our side.

In regard to filters though, if I have no time to keep up with the info, how am I going to have time to develop (of find) a proper filter? And, if I can't, then how do I pick which filter is correct? How do I learn that skill? And, who sets up these filters? Also, as the information continues to increase exponentially, so will the amount of "experts" and potential filters, again, only make the overall issue and process of sorting it all out (information and filters) more difficult.

Time is limited and finite in response to each of our lives. It is the one factor that from the moment we are born, we will have less of as each day, hour, second and minute pass.

However, at the same time, the flow of information continues to increase and after a decade or two of the "age of information" we are worse off then before.

Everyone I know in my profession agrees. Each year, each week and each day, there is exponentially more information then the year, week and day before and they can't keep up with it no matter what they do.

And, many of these are people who already dedicate time to the flow and have the skills to potentially do it well. Yet, they are overwhelmed by both the rate and the amount of the flow.

It would only be that much more difficult for someone who does not have the time, or the skill.

And, that is exactly what I see. In the past, the majority of my patients came to me and realized they were lacking in information, let alone accurate information, and needed help. Today, the majority of my patients come to me thinking they not only have the information, but they have very accurate information, in spite of the fact that it is not working for them.

You see this phenomenon all over the internet and social media sites. It has even progressed to the point where people who have no qualification or education in an area at all are arguing with highly qualified, highly educated experts that they know the experts topic better than the expert.

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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby harry » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:02 am

i have found this thread to be very useful....terrific comments and links...

but jeff i must respond to your comment about the uneducated and unqualified person arguing with the expert as if they know more about the topic than the expert.

at times that person may have an idea that the expert hasnt thought about...this is just an observation i have made working with kids...

jeff you are remarkably good with presenting the evidence...not many people are able to do that...but sometimes a little kid comes along like the story of the kings new suit of clothes...

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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby JeffN » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:03 am

harry wrote: i have found this thread to be very useful....terrific comments and links...


Thanks and thanks to all who contributed. :)

harry wrote: at times that person may have an idea that the expert hasnt thought about...this is just an observation i have made working with kids...

jeff you are remarkably good with presenting the evidence...not many people are able to do that...but sometimes a little kid comes along like the story of the kings new suit of clothes...


I agree. And I have no problem with it. I was in those shoes myself. However, my concern is not the discussion or the direction of the flow of the discussion. My concern is they tone and attitude of the discussion. From early on, I always felt it an honor and privilege to be able to engage in communication with experts and/or leaders in a field. I was always humbled and honored. I still am.

But today, it seems like much of the attitude has changed and what I see is much much more obnoxious, arrogant, aggressive and divisive communications with no honor, respect or grace and I think much of it is fueled by the advent of the internet and especially social media.

So, while the kid with the story of the kings new clothes is true and does happen, we have to remember that it is not a common occurrence. However, today's technology has given every person with an internet connection, a blog and/or a FB page, the ability to think so and that they have discovered it.

So, my main issue is not the communication or direction of it, but the tone and attitude of it.

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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby harry » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:51 am

JeffN wrote:
harry wrote: i have found this thread to be very useful....terrific comments and links...


Thanks and thanks to all who contributed. :)

harry wrote: at times that person may have an idea that the expert hasnt thought about...this is just an observation i have made working with kids...

jeff you are remarkably good with presenting the evidence...not many people are able to do that...but sometimes a little kid comes along like the story of the kings new suit of clothes...


I agree. And I have no problem with it. I was in those shoes myself. However, my concern is not the discussion or the direction of the flow of the discussion. My concern is they tone and attitude of the discussion. From early on, I always felt it an honor and privilege to be able to engage in communication with experts and/or leaders in a field. I was always humbled and honored. I still am.

But today, it seems like much of the attitude has changed and what I see is much much more obnoxious, arrogant, aggressive and divisive communications with no honor, respect or grace and I think much of it is fueled by the advent of the internet and especially social media.

So, while the kid with the story of the kings new clothes is true and does happen, we have to remember that it is not a common occurrence. However, today's technology has given every person with an internet connection, a blog and/or a FB page, the ability to think so and that they have discovered it.

So, my main issue is not the communication or direction of it, but the tone and attitude of it.

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Jeff


i agree entirely with your comments....the internet is virtual so people can get away with it....you have been very important to me and my health..
and i am stubborn and skeptical and old..
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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby greentea » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:51 am

JeffN wrote:But today, it seems like much of the attitude has changed and what I see is much much more obnoxious, arrogant, aggressive and divisive communications with no honor, respect or grace and I think much of it is fueled by the advent of the internet and especially social media.


Jeff

Oh boy do I agree with this. It seems like with the internet, people read tidbits and headlines and then apparently are "experts" on a subject and fail to ask questions. I've done it myself. Our media doesn't help when anything and everything is reported without much fact finding or insight.
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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby Spiral » Thu May 24, 2012 10:22 am

Jeff,

What is your opinion regarding the value of books, like Dr. T. Colin Campbell's "The China Study?"

Reason why I ask is that there are many people like me who can be persuaded by the arguments made in a book like Campbell's but have a difficult time wading through all of the scientific studies presented in JAMA or the New England Journal of Medicine.

Do you think such books are effective at being ways of introducing people to scientific data surrounding nutrition?

Obviously, some books are misleading. So, there are limits to their value, right?
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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby JeffN » Thu May 24, 2012 10:32 am

Spiral wrote: What is your opinion regarding the value of books, like Dr. T. Colin Campbell's "The China Study?"


I think mass market books are excellent for personal edification and sharing.

Spiral wrote: Do you think such books are effective at being ways of introducing people to scientific data surrounding nutrition?


Sure, I think they can be an excellent introduction

Spiral wrote:Obviously, some books are misleading. So, there are limits to their value, right?


Yes, very much so.

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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby JeffN » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:25 pm

More support for my comments...

http://www.npr.org/2012/10/10/162594751 ... nd-science

"According to IBM, 90 percent of the data in the world was created within the last two years," Silver tells Fresh Air's Dave Davies. "So one problem is what we call the signal-to-noise ratio — the amount of meaningful information relative to the overall amount information is declining. We're not that much smarter than we used to be, even though we have much more information — and that means the real skill now is learning how to pick out the useful information from all this noise."

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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby JeffN » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:54 pm

A great article on "How to critically appraise an article."

http://www.nature.com/nrgastro/journal/ ... p1331.html

And a more technical one on How to Read a Clinical Trial Paper

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3380258/

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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby JeffN » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:44 am

another great free article on the topic

GLOSSARY
A glossary for evidence based public health

J Epidemiol Community Health 2004;58:538–545. doi: 10.1136/jech.2003.011585

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... p00538.pdf

This glossary seeks to define and explain some of the main concepts underpinning evidence based public health. It draws on the published literature, experience gained over several years analysis of the topic, and discussions with public health colleagues, including researchers,
practitioners, policy makers, and students.

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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby JeffN » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:18 am

And the data keeps coming in....

"even a fractious minority wields enough power to skew a reader's perception of a story, recent research suggests"

Why We're Shutting Off Our Comments
Starting today, PopularScience.com will no longer accept comments on new articles. Here's why.
By Suzanne LaBarre
09.24.2013 at 8:15 am

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2 ... wq89Vfp.01

I agree. It is why I have made the changes I did to this forum over the last 2 years. As a result, I think the quality of the discussion has improved dramatically.

Thanks to all who have helped and supported the changes.

The problem is two-fold, 1) the fractious minority (which most of us are not) & 2) the skewing of the readers perception (which we many of us might be).

Remember...

"Science is not determined by popular vote, public opinion, religious beliefs, (individual experience) or marketing & advertising. Science is determined by careful and critical consideration of the evidence & the strength of that evidence. Scientists are not polled for their opinions and the ideas of the majority put forward as the scientific reality"

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Caveat Emptor: The Trouble With 'Scientific' Research Today:

Postby JeffN » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:49 am

Caveat Emptor: The Trouble With 'Scientific' Research Today: A Lot That's Published Is Junk

The state of science today and much of the conversation around it, especially in regard to the increase of this in the media, on the internet & especially the many venues of social media, is at best, of questionable value.

Recently, in response to this, Popular Science shut down public comments at its website.

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2 ... r-comments

Although the following appears in Forbes (forgive me) :) , it is based on some recent research (cited below) and some very disappointing recent trends in scientific research. I found it a worthy read and much better said then I ever could. I also linked to the journal article it refers too.

I have raised this issue a few times in the last year with a few high profile science writers, yet they were more interested in publishing about the "sensational" results regardless of the flawed design, methodology & application. My point to them was that the real story was not the "sensational" results being reported but that such a poorly done study could pass "peer-review" & get published in a respected medical journal. I thought the better story, which they should publish on, was the one being discussed below. This happened again this week to me with the "breaking" news about tumeric & ischemic stroke.

The Trouble With 'Scientific' Research Today: A Lot That's Published Is Junk

http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller ... d-is-junk/

"Many non-scientists are confused and dismayed by the constantly changing advice that comes from medical and other researchers on various issues. One week, coffee causes cancer; the next, it prevents it. Where should we set the LDL threshold for taking statins to prevent cardiovascular disease? Does the radiation from cell phones cause brain tumors?"

"A number of empirical studies show that 80-90% of the claims coming from supposedly scientific studies in major journals fail to replicate. This is scandalous, and the problem is only likely to become worse with the proliferation of “predatory publishers” of many open-access journals."

"Researchers may tinker with their experimental design until they get the result they want."


"Given the incentives to publish research findings quickly — whether they are reproducible or not — and the ease of getting them into print, the disincentives to performing replication studies, and the general lack of interest in this subject from publishers and editors, it is difficult to be optimistic about reversing current trends and making science more reliable."

Receptive to replication, Nature Biotechnology 31, 943 (2013) doi:10.1038/nbt.2748

http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v31/n ... .2748.html

"Replication is a difficult and thankless task. Until now, journals, funders and academics have shown little interest in it. Nature Biotechnology will remain open to publishing replication studies and rigorous efforts that fail to reproduce findings from other publications of high interest to our readers. It is our view, however, that the best practice is to publish such replication failures in the journal where the original findings were published. That way, the power of the scientific process to consolidate and modify our understanding of initial findings in a report is clearly visible to all."

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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby JeffN » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:10 pm

Excellent show on this topic

Judging The Credibility Of News In The Digital Age
Tuesday, August 19, 2014

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2014- ... igital-age

Americans are getting their news from more places than ever before. Besides traditional sources, we are turning to social media, email and even late-night TV to find out what’s happening in the world. And we are increasingly able to target news based on our interests and ideology. Some journalists worry the sheer volume of all that information is affecting our news literacy. They say we need to think critically about our daily media diet and ask more questions about who is producing and sourcing the news we consume and why. Diane and her guests discuss how to sort fact from fiction in the digital age.

Guests
Alan Miller Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist; founder, president, and CEO of The News Literacy Project.

Amanda Ripley investigative journalist and author of "The Smartest Kids in the World."

Andy Carvin former social media desk editor, NPR; recently joined journalism start-up First Look Media.

Tom Rosenstiel executive director, American Press Institute; co-author of “Blur: How to Know What to Believe in the Age of Information Overload.”
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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby JeffN » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:08 am

Well worth the read on "A Healthy Dose of Skepticism"

Microbiology: Microbiome science needs a healthy dose of scepticism
William P. Hanage
Nature
20 August 2014

"To guard against hype, those interpreting research on the body's microscopic communities should ask five questions," says William P. Hanage.

"Press officers must stop exaggerating results, and journalists must stop swallowing them whole."

"The history of science is replete with examples of exciting new fields that promised a gold rush of medicines and health insights but required scepticism and years of slogging to deliver even partially."

http://www.nature.com/news/microbiology ... sm-1.15730
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Re: The Importance of Evidence

Postby JeffN » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:40 pm

Excellent article on the topic. Many of the sections have links to other articles (including ones by names we will recognize such as H Gilbert Welch) that are also excellent.

Tips for Understanding Studies
HealthNewsReview.org

http://www.healthnewsreview.org/toolkit ... g-studies/

and specifically this section...

Does The Language Fit The Evidence? – Association Versus Causation

http://www.healthnewsreview.org/toolkit ... causation/

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