Why does CR work ?

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Why does CR work ?

Postby RawDad » Sat May 28, 2011 6:27 pm

Jeff,

I am quite interested in the topic of calorie restriction.

Is the entire premise of effectiveness associated with longevity related to a slowing of the metabolism and less work/toxic burden for the body?

Any idea what role mucus plays in general health (it seems I tolerate very little mucus forming food today)? I ask this because what I have noticed it the less calorie dense foods form little mucus (green and yellow vegs and juicy fruits).

Diets recommened by Fuhrman and here seem to have that in common - want you to limit the starch and fill on salad, vegs, and some fruit. I know there are some differences - Fuhrman tends to recommed more fat in some cases and more fruit in general - but both seem to have some common points (eat a lotta low calorie density vegetation is amongst my favorites)....

Thx in advance - Russ.
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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby JeffN » Sat May 28, 2011 6:49 pm

RawDad wrote:Jeff,

I am quite interested in the topic of calorie restriction.

Is the entire premise of effectiveness associated with longevity related to a slowing of the metabolism and less work/toxic burden for the body?..


No.

There are many theories about why CR works but no one knows for sure but we do know for sure that it works. Seems the main requirements are a decrease in calories around 10-40% and ensuring adequate nutrient intake.

However, there is not really a slowing of metabolism outside the relative decrease associate with a decrease of mass.

RawDad wrote: I ask this because what I have noticed it the less calorie dense foods form little mucus (green and yellow vegs and juicy fruits).


Very subjective as not everyone shares this experience.


I try to keep this forum focused on the McDougall program and not CR though sometimes there is some crossover. If you want more info, there are two great online list-serves for CR, or you can read the book, Beyond the 120 yr Diet, by Ray Walford.

Here are some recent references looking at CR and why it works

The Effects of Caloric Restriction on Health and Longevity.
Green JL, Sawaya FJ, Dollar AL.
Curr Treat Options Cardiovasc Med. 2011 Apr 28. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 21526354

Long-term calorie restriction, but not endurance exercise, lowers core body temperature in humans.
Soare A, Cangemi R, Omodei D, Holloszy JO, Fontana L.
Aging (Albany NY). 2011 Mar 27. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 21483032

Visceral adipose tissue modulates mammalian longevity.
Muzumdar R, Allison DB, Huffman DM, Ma X, Atzmon G, Einstein FH, Fishman S, Poduval AD, McVei T, Keith SW, Barzilai N.
Aging Cell. 2008 Jun;7(3):438-40. Epub 2008 Mar 18.
PMID: 18363902


Honoring Clive McCay and 75 Years of Calorie Restriction Research Roger B. McDonald and Jon J. Ramsey J. Nutr. 10.3945/jn.110.122804


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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby RawDad » Sat May 28, 2011 7:09 pm

Great Jeff and thanks. I will check those things out.

Eating a large volume does seem taxing on the body - that much is obvious.

Have a great holiday weekend !
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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby pinkrose » Sat May 28, 2011 7:43 pm

JeffN wrote:
RawDad wrote:Jeff,


Long-term calorie restriction, but not endurance exercise, lowers core body temperature in humans.
Soare A, Cangemi R, Omodei D, Holloszy JO, Fontana L.
Aging (Albany NY). 2011 Mar 27. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 21483032


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Jeff


In regard to the above cited article, Jeff, I thought there was a consensus among CRONers that our practice makes us colder in the winter and cooler (less hot) in the summer. (My hands are cool/cold for about six months/year.) So I really like summers (even the hot ones) much better than winters.

If somebody mentions being colder than usual after they have begun McDougalling, without other signs/symptoms, I assume it is related to the CR effect.

I mention this now because as we are about to experience the summer heat, it is good to know that CR does help one to tolerate this. :-D
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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby JeffN » Sat May 28, 2011 8:00 pm

Yes, CRONies tend to have lower body temps.


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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby cbs » Sat May 28, 2011 10:30 pm

RD I thought I would reply, not so much on the CR issue as the mucus. If you are consistent eating some starch/cooked for 1-2 months, (not going back and forth to the 100% 811 diet) the mucus mostly goes away (my experience) and there isnt tiredness after eating. Actually the opposite but more sustained energy. I am guessing the 811 diet makes your body over react. It somehow made my digestion lazy too which is much better now. I also find its more difficult to eat as many calories on starch so its pretty easy to CR even if you dont want to. I'm just not hungry consuming potatoes.
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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby RawDad » Sun May 29, 2011 8:38 am

Thanks cbs.. and interesting. By consistent - RU talking about "per the plan" ? I mean oatmeal for bfast, rice/beans for lunch, and potatoes/vegs for lunch with salads and couple fruit snacks thrown in ?

If so - admittedly - I have not tried that for a long period of time (more than a week). My head gets so foggy I cannot work - have to switch back to fruit and salad... (arghhh)...

Is it possible starch does not get along well with a large amount of fruit ?
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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby cbs » Sun May 29, 2011 9:52 am

Well 2 of my meals are half starch, half vegetables, 2 are half fruit but just 1-2 pieces. I dont feel the need to eat tons, I"m very small. I have less issues now with allergies then the all raw stuff ironically. I dont have bloating, GI pain, gas issues. I dont get sick non stop like other raw foodists with every environmental thing. But I can now blow my nose. I dont get colds, etc. I never seen a study that says having to blow your nose once in awhile causes any problems. I dont have any sinus issues which I still had on raw because I over reacted to the environment and my allergies got worse. If you want to be 100% 811, do that, if you want to McDougall, do that.Your body will adjust. But doing the 811 my blood work showed I was deficient in many things. You cannot manage on that diet unless you eat a huge number of calories, not for me. No issues this way and now I feel better overall. OK I"m not hyper-anxious which for me is a GOOD thing. I'm calmer, less irritated, more stable. I sleep better, feel better and save about half my food budget and most importantly by blood work I"m much healthier. And I never have to struggle to do this diet. No cravings ever. Its harder to maintain your weight on this diet though as I'm not ever hungry. I guess also since I"m not eating just sugar, my body might be expending more energy to process the food. Like I said my GI system got very sluggish on fruits.
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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby frozenveg » Sun May 29, 2011 2:00 pm

RawDad wrote:
I ask this because what I have noticed it the less calorie dense foods form little mucus (green and yellow vegs and juicy fruits).


(Jeff wrote) Very subjective as not everyone shares this experience.

Now I'm curious--what is this "mucus" thing you speak of? I've been McDougalling for a year and a half or so, and I eat a lot of oatmeal, rice and potatoes. I have never experienced mucus in particular. Does it mean, like, having to clear your throat a lot?
5'3", 67 YO. Started Jan. 11, 2010
Starting weight: 222.6
Current weight: 129.2
93.4 lbs lost, as of Oct. 2011


Following the McDougall plan gave me my life back! Thank you, Dr. McD!
http://www.drmcdougall.com/stars/cloudy_rockwell.htm
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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby Rob » Sun May 29, 2011 2:11 pm

RawDad wrote:Diets recommened by Fuhrman and here seem to have that in common - want you to limit the starch and fill on salad, vegs, and some fruit.

Russ - Just to clarify - the McDougall Plan is a starch based diet with the addition of fruits and vegetables. Have you had an opportunity to watch Dr. McDougall's free on-line presentation, 'The Starch Solution'?

http://www.drmcdougall.com/video/starch_solution.html
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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby cbs » Sun May 29, 2011 3:29 pm

frozenveg wrote:
RawDad wrote:
I ask this because what I have noticed it the less calorie dense foods form little mucus (green and yellow vegs and juicy fruits).


(Jeff wrote) Very subjective as not everyone shares this experience.

Now I'm curious--what is this "mucus" thing you speak of? I've been McDougalling for a year and a half or so, and I eat a lot of oatmeal, rice and potatoes. I have never experienced mucus in particular. Does it mean, like, having to clear your throat a lot?


Raw foodists believe that mucus = toxemia = disease and all disease is caused by excess mucus. This is of course a myth and if I'm wrong, please correct me Jeff. When you eat raw the body doesnt have to work hard to digest the food. When you go back to eating starches, in the beginning the body seems to over react and produces more mucus. So they might have to blow their nose or notice some slight congestion til their body adapts and the digestive system is working fully. But if one is fully raw, I noticed a lot of over reaction of my immune system to simple air and chemicals in my day to day life. So most raw foodists are always "sick" due to toxins in the environment. Maybe Jeff can chime in. But to me this seems no different in logic then an anorexic saying my stomach is full therefore I'm fat. So raw foodism extremism to me is just the same illogical thinking.
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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby JeffN » Sun May 29, 2011 3:43 pm

cbs wrote:
frozenveg wrote:
RawDad wrote:
I ask this because what I have noticed it the less calorie dense foods form little mucus (green and yellow vegs and juicy fruits).


(Jeff wrote) Very subjective as not everyone shares this experience.

Now I'm curious--what is this "mucus" thing you speak of? I've been McDougalling for a year and a half or so, and I eat a lot of oatmeal, rice and potatoes. I have never experienced mucus in particular. Does it mean, like, having to clear your throat a lot?


Raw foodists believe that mucus = toxemia = disease and all disease is caused by excess mucus. This is of course a myth and if I'm wrong, please correct me Jeff. When you eat raw the body doesnt have to work hard to digest the food. When you go back to eating starches, in the beginning the body seems to over react and produces more mucus. So they might have to blow their nose or notice some slight congestion til their body adapts and the digestive system is working fully. But if one is fully raw, I noticed a lot of over reaction of my immune system to simple air and chemicals in my day to day life. So most raw foodists are always "sick" due to toxins in the environment. Maybe Jeff can chime in. But to me this seems no different in logic then an anorexic saying my stomach is full therefore I'm fat. So raw foodism extremism to me is just the same illogical thinking.


Basically correct.

Just one point. Another raw food myth is that raw food is easier to digest.

Reality is, cooked food is actually easier to digest as the cooking process actually starts to break down the food. Some studies on this have shown that cooking reduce energy cost about 12.5%. I think I posted those references here earlier but if not, I can always find them again.

Maybe this is why so many raw fooders think they can eat "more" without gaining weight. Well, about 12.5% on average, for sure. :)

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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby cbs » Sun May 29, 2011 4:27 pm

Thanks for clarifying Jeff! One reason I started cooking my food is that many vegetables I could not eat without steaming them. The fibers were too difficult to digest and caused pain/bloating. I did not think romaine and baby spinach alone were enough. I felt it was healthier to expand my diet so then I started steaming them without issues.

Everything you said makes sense. Can you expand upon this tiredness/congestion issue that raw foodists complain about and conclude that cooking is therefore bad/evil? I am just confirming what RD is complaining about but I thought I would let him know that this quickly went away and on cooked now I have MORE energy. Its just more stable. I feel stronger, more stable and its not a rush/high type of energy that I assume is from the sugar rush. My overall sinus issues are down due to less reaction to allergens (dust and dust mites mostly which is impossible to avoid lol). I feel good on a lot of raw foods but I take Furhmans advice and eat salads raw and cook the heavier vegetables and feel great on starches too.

So the eat all you want on raw as you cant gain weight is just 12.5% more lol? I think I am desiring 20%+ less this way because I'm feeling much more satisfied very quickly on the starches then fruit. FYI info for those who fear potatoes will make them fat. Doesnt seem like it. I"m actually having a harder time on cooked foods maintaining my weight then the fruit way as I dont get as hungry. My point is that I think CR is a more natural consequence on this diet. It would be much more difficult to overeat calories and protein, especially if following the only whole unprocessed foods approach, on this diet.
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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby pinkrose » Sun May 29, 2011 4:46 pm

In regard to sinus problems/mucus issues, I have suffered from allergies and sinusitis many times for over 40 years. Before I began McDougalling I ate lots of raw fruit.

I began McDougalling less than two years ago. Now I eat almost 100% cooked foods (veggies and starches) and my problems with allergies, mucus etc. have diminished considerably. I have not taken an antibiotic in a long time and I am grateful! :-D
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Re: Why does CR work ?

Postby RawDad » Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 pm

@ Rob - yes - starch based understood. However, it seems there is a lean (atleast on this forum) towards CR and logically this means consuming less starch.

I have watched the starch solution vid - thanks.

I tend to agree with Jeff (and Fuhrman) on this point - the more nutrient dense the diet the better it becomes.
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