Spiral Half Marathon Training

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Re: Spiral Half Marathon Training

Postby Spiral » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:53 pm

hazelrah wrote:I haven't run a marathon in twenty years, but I'm thinking about doing Napa the first weekend of March. My mileage is pretty dismal right now, But I think if I have 3 months I should be able to work up to it.


Hazelrah,

Thanks for the insight. What do you consider to be dismal mileage? I hope you will be able to be successful in your marathon ambition. I guess for some reason, I got the sense, having read some of your corresponding with Jeff Novick, that you were piling up lots of miles and therefore resistant to the concept of CR (calorie restriction). Perhaps my reading comprehension skills need sharpening. :D

I am thinking of dealing with this half marathon challenge the way one of my math teachers told his (or maybe it was a her) students to deal with a math exam. Basically, study hard enough, do enough math problems to where the exam is basic by comparison.

So, since a half marathon is 13.1 miles (although if half marathons are measured anything like the way 5k races are measured, it will be more like 13.43 miles), I want to do a couple of training runs lasting about 13 to 14 miles, just so from a mental perspective, I know that I can do it and that my body won't turn to ashes at the 10 mile mark.

As you probably already knew, I wouldn't mind at all if you kept me and others here updated on how your training for the Napa Marathon is going.

I should also mention that I read yesterday that Karin_Kiwi finished her first half marathon recently. Cool. Hope she sees this thread.
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Re: Spiral Half Marathon Training

Postby Spiral » Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:41 pm

I wonder if I'm going to be eating food like this during my training for the half marathon. Tarahumara Living

Well, yesterday I ran 5.5 miles at a 9:52 minute/mile pace with an average heart rate of either 145 beats per minute or 141 beats per minute.

Why the two different heart rate averages? Well, it seems that my Garmin GPS heart rate monitor might be giving me inaccurate heart rate readings during the first parts of my runs, perhaps because if the monitor is not moist, it doesn't work correctly. Only after I am warmed and have sweated a little bit do the heart rate readings become accurate. Just a guess on my part. I have no other explanation as to why my heart rate would start fast and then slow down as my run continues. And I was running faster as the run proceeded. My mile paces were 10:21, 9:51, 9:51, 9:59, 9:28 and 9:30 pace for the last half mile.

Today I went to a state park with the intention of running. But I noticed it was raining. I had checked the weather before I went to the park and rain was nowhere in the forcast. So, I left the state park and then decided that I shouldn't wimp out. I went back and ran 5 miles. I wasn't completely soaking wet by the end of it. It was mostly sprinkles, maybe just a bit of snow. Not sure.

My overall pace for these 5 miles was a 9:39 minute mile pace. That's a little bit faster than yesterday's run. But I am actually trying to keep these runs slow and relaxed. Why? Well, I'm not exactly sure. But I am hoping my coach will clarify this issue of how intense workouts should be, once she actually starts being my coach. I have another week to wait for that. She's still working on developing my training plan.

My splits for the 5 miles were 10:11, 9:31, 9:21, 9:43, 9:27. Average heart rate was either 148 bpm or 143 depending on whether I believe the reading from the first mile (I don't, so I think it was 143 bpm).

Meanwhile, I decided, against my better judgement, to sign up for the Turkey Day Drumstick Dash, a fundraiser for the hungry and 4.5 mile race here in Indianapolis on Thanksgiving Day morning. Many thousands of people participate and I decided I wanted to be part of this event, even though I have the Jingle Bell Run 5k race 16 days later. I don't like having races that close together. But I'll let it go this time.

I had my oats, ground flaxseed, berries and brown sugar for breakfast this morning, my standard eats for the AM. After my run, I was pretty hungry. So, I had a mixture of brown rice, corn, black beans with a can of no salt added tomatoes, some chopped green chilis (from a can), with some cumin and black pepper. Heated in the microwave. When I'm that hungry, it doesn't have to taste great. But it was pretty good anyway.

Then, since I was still hungry, I baked a sweet potato in the microwave, added cinnamon and more mixed berries. Ate that and I was still hungry. So, I baked another sweet potato and added cinnamon and brown sugar.

For dinner, my wife and I went to a Chinese restaurant and ordered rice and vegetables. The sauce was probably illegal by McDougall standards. Can't say for sure. But overall, I'd say nutrionally I did pretty good. I need to stay away from restaurants if I want to do better though.

Tomorrow, I plan to take a day off of running and on Monday I plan a light, short run. I want my legs fresh for the Drumstick Dash.

4.5 miles. Isn't that a strange distance for a race? Wonder how they came up with that.

Bye for now.
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Re: Spiral Half Marathon Training

Postby hazelrah » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:04 pm

Spiral wrote:
I hope you will be able to be successful in your marathon ambition. I guess for some reason, I got the sense, having read some of your corresponding with Jeff Novick, that you were piling up lots of miles and therefore resistant to the concept of CR (calorie restriction). Perhaps my reading comprehension skills need sharpening. :D

I am thinking of dealing with this half marathon challenge the way one of my math teachers told his (or maybe it was a her) students to deal with a math exam. Basically, study hard enough, do enough math problems to where the exam is basic by comparison.

So, since a half marathon is 13.1 miles (although if half marathons are measured anything like the way 5k races are measured, it will be more like 13.43 miles), I want to do a couple of training runs lasting about 13 to 14 miles, just so from a mental perspective, I know that I can do it and that my body won't turn to ashes at the 10 mile mark.

As you probably already knew, I wouldn't mind at all if you kept me and others here updated on how your training for the Napa Marathon is going.

I should also mention that I read yesterday that Karin_Kiwi finished her first half marathon recently. Cool. Hope she sees this thread.


Dismal for me would be much less than 30 miles per week, and I've been a lot closer to 20 for a very long time. It is the main reason I started to follow this plan. I remember thinking one day, " I guess I'll never do another marathon," and it made me very sad. It's a weird addiction if it hooks you. And running and I have a long, torrid history. When I started college I weighed 280. Then I developed this sort of adolescent crush on a freshman girl, and I said to myself, "Who in the hell is going to want to have anything to do with a 300 pound teenager?" So I went out to the hill behind my dorm one night and I, "Jogged," around the hill twice. I thought I was going to die. But the desire to finally rid myself of my repulsive lardosity outweighed the discomfort of my inability to breathe at the top of the hill. One thing led to another and I soon found myself padding down roads less taken in the Maine autumn nights (which are like winter nights in any sensible part of the world.) I started to grow fonder of the running than of the reason that I had started it. And it was amazing how quickly my body was adapting and learning how to efficiently convert oxygen to carbon dioxide, how quickly my leg muscles were learning to efficiently cross the campus, and, perhaps most amazing of all, how my brain was learning to disregard its obsession to stop taxing the body. That Christmas my mom got me a pair of Puma Easy Riders and I circled the track that I could barely get around in high school gym class. After running on KMart $10 specials, my feet felt like they were running on pillows. The running improved my weight and the loss of weight improved my running, after a year I was at 175, and, to make a long story short, I guess I sort of fell in love with it. Some of my best memories were of the look, sound or smell of something I encountered while out on a jog. It was a good friend that you could always rely upon. And it seemed to return the love in kind, making you feel more alive and energetic. I had been running for more than decade when I decided to run my first marathon. I was overtrained and came out pretty good ( for me, anyway). It was actually the fastest marathon I ran until the last one I did. When I crossed the finish line on that first marathon in LA, I think it was the most spiritual experience I've ever had in my life. I walked around the LA Colosseum in a trance for the better part of an hour, overcome with how amazing life was, that after a number of decades of morbid obesity, including cigarette smoking, and occasional drunken stupors, this body could figure out how to do this amazing feat. All those years growing up I would fool myself into thinking that I was somehow morally superior to the stupid jocks who were so shallow they could only value physical activity. If I had continued down that road I would have missed some of the best things life has to offer.

And that's exactly what's waiting for you at the end of those 13 miles next May; the best things life has to offer, just like those 5 and a half miles you ran yesterday. Don't let anybody or anything come between you and that.

Mark
...the process that creates this boredom that we see in the world now may very well be a self-perpetuating, unconscious form of brainwashing, created by a world totalitarian government based on money, ... Wallace Shawn
http://www.anginamonologues.net
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Re: Spiral Half Marathon Training

Postby Spiral » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:32 am

hazelrah wrote:And that's exactly what's waiting for you at the end of those 13 miles next May; the best things life has to offer, just like those 5 and a half miles you ran yesterday. Don't let anybody or anything come between you and that.


After reading that inspiring comment, I certainly won't let anything get in the way of the 13 miles. That was an awesome read.

A co-worker of mine once said to me several months ago, having overheard me talking about running or 5k racing, "I don't understand the joy of running. I can understand running for a purpose, like playing football. Or running to lose weight. But to just run for no real reason. I don't get it."

I was stumped because I had felt that way about running too, right up until the time I started doing it myself. Not exactly the experience you had when you began running, but similar. One day it's me saying, "Ah, look at those crazy runners, running in the rain. Insane." The next day it's me paying 25 bucks to run on around downtown Indianapolis with a bib safety pinned to my shirt and a timing chip strapped to my shoe.

Make sure you get those miles in and do the Napa! My bet is that the Napa marathon is a bit more scenic than the Mini-Marathon in downtown Indianapolis. :D
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Re: Spiral Half Marathon Training

Postby Spiral » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:34 pm

I ran the Drumstick Dash this morning along with about 15,000 other runners/walkers. Wow. What an event.

It was a fun running event, the largest I have participated in since the Breast Cancer Race for the Cure 5k back in April of this year.

They actually delayed the start of the race by 10 minutes because the shuttle buses used to get people from the far, far parking lots to the race site were overwhelmed by so many people.

The host of the event asked the crowd, shivering in the 38 degree temperature and wanting to start running (to get warm if nothing else), "Can we wait just 10 more minutes for some more people on this Thanksgiving morning?"

The crowd answered, "No." When the host announced that the race would be delayed for a few minutes, there were boooos from the crowd. I was a little impatient myself, because I was a little bit cold. I always underdress for a race in cold weather because I know that once I start running, I'll warm up.

I ended up running just a little faster than an 8 and 1/2 minute/mile pace for the 4.5 mile race. I felt good about my performance, but not great. I thought that I might have been able to run closer to a an 8 min/mile pace. Oh, well.

I looked at my splits on my Garmin GPS Heart Rate Monitor and I can tell that my heart was working hard during the race. And I did feel a little winded during parts of the race, like I had to slow down or else I would run out of gas. But I ran the race fairly even, with my faster running coming at the beginning two miles and at the very end. Kind of typical for me in racing.

My wife made the Thanksgiving dinner, which seemed pretty McDougall friendly. Mashed potatoes. Stuffing. Problem is I am afraid to question my wife about what is in the mashed potatoes and stuffing. I don't want to start a fight. That's why I prefer to cook for myself. But if my wife did tuck some butter or margarine in those potatoes/stuffing, I guess that's the way it is. But I am much more comfortable eating my own cookin'. I wish I could relax and eat my wife's food. But I'm just too hard core McDougall to do that these days. Maybe someday my wife will become a full bore McDougaller like me. I doubt it though. :crybaby:

Well, soon I will be receiving my training plan. We'll see how it goes.
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Re: Spiral Half Marathon Training

Postby Spiral » Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:14 pm

I found some old weight records of myself today, dating back to 2007.

I would weigh myself several times a week for a while. Then I would stop weighing myself.

I have been hot and cold on the issue of nutrition for a long time. I had always wondered about the Body Mass Index (BMI). It said that since I am 5 feet 10 inches tall, I should weigh less than 174 pounds.

But I always thought that this was (a) unachievable and (b) would make me really skinny, perhaps skin and bones.

One day back in 2006 I weighted myself and the scale said 195 pounds. I was closing in on the 200 pound mark. So, I started dieting ...... a little.

Here are my average weights from past months (there's lots of missing months because I didn't always weigh myself).

December 2006 - 195 pounds
January 2007 - 191 pounds
February 2007 - 185 pounds
March 2007 - 184 pounds
April 2007 - 186 pounds
May 2007 - 190 pounds

(I went on Weight Watchers with my wife for a while here)
August 2007 - 192 pounds
September 2007 - 184 pounds
October 2007 - 177 pounds
November 2007 - 176 pounds

February 2010 - 185 pounds
March 2010 - 179 pounds
April 2010 - 176 pounds

August 2010 - 181 pounds

(I read "The China Study" by Dr. T. Colin Campbell in September 2010 and started going 100 percent plant based immediately! :D )

September 2010 - 176 pounds
October 2010 - 172 pounds
November 2010 - 168 pounds
December 2010 - 167 pounds

Yesterday I weighed 156 pounds.

So, although I was not seriously sick when I started this way of eating, I can say that this diet has helped me achieve a lower, healthier weight, a weight I had thought was either "too low" or impossible to get to.
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Re: Spiral Half Marathon Training

Postby Spiral » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:29 pm

Today I ran 9 and one half miles, my longest run ever. Woo-hoo!

I was powered by my typical oats, golden ground flaxseed, brown sugar and mixed berries breakfast.

I was a little hungry when I started the run. But I didn't want to eat before the run because I figured the food in my stomach would give me cramps.

But I did not feel thirsty or lacking energy for the entire 9 and one half miles. Though, I did run at a slower, relaxed pace. An average pace of 10:27 minutes per mile. It took me about 1 hour and 40 minutes to cover the distance.

When I got home I ate a large baked sweet potato, plain. Then I cooked up about four cups of brown rice. I ended up eating half the rice with a ton of veggies and vinegar on it. Huge lunch/dinner.

My Garmin gadget said that I burned about 1,200 calories during my run. No wonder I was hungry. But I did not "hit the wall." We'll see if this changes as I try to go on longer runs, approching the magic 13.1 distance.

Yes. I ran slow. But speed will have to wait.
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Re: Spiral Half Marathon Training

Postby Spiral » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:13 pm

It's been about 3 weeks since my last post on my half-marathon training. I keep thinking that this "journal" really belongs in the Exercise and Fitness forum. I goofed and put it here. Oh, well. :?

In any case. After the Drumstick Dash on Thanksgiving morning and my 9.5 mile run two days later, I took a few days off. I think I got busy. Can't remember why I took three days off in a row. :shock:

Then I started using the training plan that my virtual coach gave me. It was supposed to be a 23 week plan and perhaps it will be eventually. But right now I only have 8 weeks of it, getting me into late January.

I find this training plan less attractive than the Hal Higdon training plans you can get online for free. Why? Well, this virtual coach training plan (I'll call it VCTP) tells me to do a 25 minute ZR run. A ZR run is a run in the "recovery zone," where the heart beats from 108 to 126 beats per minute.

Well, to keep my heart rate that low, I have to walk fast, but I can't really jog or run. Maybe there's some "science" behind this. But I find it too constraining.

Even Z1 runs (in Zone 1) say that I have to run where my heart ranges from 131 to 141 beats per minute. That's more doable, but I still a tad low for me even when I am doing a relaxed run.

So, what I have been doing is browsing the VCTP and the Hal Higdon training plans for marathoners and, after consulting myself :D I decide what to do.

Why am I looking at Hal Higdon's full marathon training plan when I am training for a half marathon? It's because Hal Higdon's half marathon training (a) only lasts 12 weeks and I have much more time to train than that and (b) there's no "long run" in which I actually run 13 miles or more, the distance I am training for.

I won't actually do the 20 mile runs that are assigned in Hal Higdon's full marathon training plans. But I might do 14, 15 or 17 miles tops.

I did run the 5k Jingle Bell run on December 10th and had my 2nd best time ever. It was about 20 degrees though. That's good 'cause now I have experience in that kind of weather.

I have been running about 5 and one half miles at a time, about 4 to 5 times per week. This morning, however, I ran 9 miles, instead of the 5 and one half. Felt good. I look forward to gradually getting closer to the longer distanes. My heart rate averaged about 147 beats per minute this morning and my average pace was 9:47. Not worried about speed. Just putting in the miles. And wanting to avoid injuries.

Also, trying to make sure that there's enough good McDougall approved food around. My wife likes to cook for me still. But she's always slipping in these things like turkey in soups and cow's milk in banana bread. So, I pick out the turkey meatballs from the soup and eat only a small amount of the bread. I'd eat more of my wife's cooking if she'd learn how to cook right. :) In all reality, I do most of the cooking in our house now.

Oh, here's a link to Hal Higdon's training plan for ultramarathons.

Hal Higdon Ultramarathon Training Plan

I like looking at this stuff, just to get an idea as to how much more other runners are doing compared to what I am doing. That way, I won't be fearful of upping the distance on my runs when I feel like my body can handle it.
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Re: Spiral Half Marathon Training

Postby veganontherun » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:23 pm

It sounds like you're doing all the right things... you worry too much! I can always tell a road runner from a trail runner... you road runners tend to think about pace, milage down to the hundreth of a mile, heart rate... etc. haha. Some of it's helpful... but I find it stressful and constraining. I run... sometimes I feel like doing some speed work... sometimes I go slow.... sometimes I push it consistantly the whole run. But who knows! The one thing I do micromanage is my total milage and long runs. But I only do that for injury prevention. If I increase more than 10% or even more than 2 mpw I get injured. Every BODY is different and you need to find what works for you. Some of my ultra running buddies can go from running 25 mpw to 75 with no issues. That would destroy my body. So I do what is right for me and I do pretty well with that. I think you're going to do great at your race... just put on the mileage slowly and run consistantly and stay injury free. Don't worry about time, pace or place. This is your first half, it's all about finishing and enjoying the experience.
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Re: Spiral Half Marathon Training

Postby Spiral » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:53 pm

veganontherun wrote:It sounds like you're doing all the right things... you worry too much! I can always tell a road runner from a trail runner... you road runners tend to think about pace, milage down to the hundreth of a mile, heart rate... etc. haha. Some of it's helpful... but I find it stressful and constraining.

I agree.

What's funny is that just at the time when I became less entranced by my Garmin GPS 305 Forerunner and Heart Rate Monitor gadget, with all of its various displays of heart rate and pace and distance, just at the time when I decided I'd be better off just running at a relaxed pace and enjoying the fresh air and views of the deer and squirrels and not worrying about what my heart rate is doing, that's when my aunt and uncle, die hard triathaletes (and wealthy) bought me a "coach" and custom training plan.

I decided to tell them, in all honesty, that trying to hit these heart rate zones force me to go so slow and running becomes awkward.

Now, they think that I am passing up an opportunity to really kick but in this half marathon. They talk of all of the other athletes who have done really well under this training program with these coaches.

Cool. But I told my uncle, via email, that I guarantee that I will run a personal record in this May's half marathon, if for no other reason than because I have never run in a half marathon before. :D

It's good to hear another "pro" say that this training program created by professional triathletes is too much micro-management. That's what I was thinking. And I had to just tell them that I like the flexibility of the Hal Higdon training plans. Didn't want to hurt their feelings. They are still emailing me and trying to convince me to "give this training plan a chance." We'll see what happens. Right now. I'm having too much fun to worry about it.
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Re: Spiral Half Marathon Training

Postby veganontherun » Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:14 pm

My opinion is that that can become necessary when you are a tenth of a second away from a world record or an olympic win... When small amounts of time are of vital importance. But in your case any training you do will help and at the stage the method isn't all that important so long as it's maintainable... Enjoyable... And keeps you healthy and injury free. My first marathon I had no clue what I was doing.... I ran a lot but no speed work and did five long runs over 20 miles and didn't eat during. I never looked at pace or anything. I figured I'd run a 4:30 time. Ended up doing 3:43 so it didn't really matter... Only thing I wish I did was practice eating because I had terrible GI issues from my first time ever taking a GU! Ha ha!
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Re: Spiral Half Marathon Training

Postby Spiral » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:33 am

veganontherun wrote:My opinion is that that can become necessary when you are a tenth of a second away from a world record or an olympic win... When small amounts of time are of vital importance. But in your case any training you do will help and at the stage the method isn't all that important so long as it's maintainable... Enjoyable... And keeps you healthy and injury free. My first marathon I had no clue what I was doing.... I ran a lot but no speed work and did five long runs over 20 miles and didn't eat during. I never looked at pace or anything. I figured I'd run a 4:30 time. Ended up doing 3:43 so it didn't really matter... Only thing I wish I did was practice eating because I had terrible GI issues from my first time ever taking a GU! Ha ha!

I'd say that a 3:43 time on your 1st marathon is awesome. I met a guy at a race eariler this year who had just finished running his 40th marathon and he ran it at his goal time of 3 hours and 30 minutes.

I'm hoping that I won't have to eat anything during my half marathon. But I am going to see what happens when my long runs get over 10 miles, my current top run having been 9.5. If I have to consume something, so be it. But I don't wants the cramps that you got. :shock: Especially during the last few miles. I heard from other runners that that GU will give you cramps.

Well, this morning I decided to do what my virtual coach training plan recommended for the day. A recovery run of 25 minutes. Which means I was supposed to be in the heart rate zone of 108 to 126.

I know. It's really micro-managing. But my aunt and uncle have been emailing me vigorously these past few days telling me, "Give it a chance!" I wonder if they really mean, "We paid to get this custom training plan and you just flush it down the toilet!"

So, I ended up running for 41 minutes, not the 25. By taking very tiny step during my run, I got average heart rate of 124, just within the recovery zone of 108-126. Ah, but I ran an all time slowest 12:43 minute/mile pace. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. But I can't say it was the most enjoyable run I have ever had either. The State Park I always run in does look spectacular regardless of how fast I am running tho.
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