Dissolution's Solution

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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby Dissolution » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:13 am

I've heard a few things from people in OA, about dealing with God and the 12-steps for an atheist/agnostic. One person said that they just thought of their Higher Power as the OA Group. Another person said she used a tree, because it was bigger and older and she could go outside and talk/yell at it. I still have a problem with these two solutions due to how the 3rd step is worded.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.


I was speaking with someone online yesterday about my difficulties with the 12-steps and being atheist/agnostic. She said her sponsor told her to use the power of her own will as her higher power, and to feel it flow through her. I immediately said, "Like The Force?!". She agreed it very much sounded like that. Yes, that is a Star Wars reference.

I hope it won't offend anybody, but I think I will think of my high power for the 12 steps as The Force.

21 days and counting.

Happy Thursday, and may The Force be with you...
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby Chile » Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:36 pm

Dissolution wrote:I was speaking with someone online yesterday about my difficulties with the 12-steps and being atheist/agnostic. She said her sponsor told her to use the power of her own will as her higher power, and to feel it flow through her. I immediately said, "Like The Force?!". She agreed it very much sounded like that. Yes, that is a Star Wars reference.

I hope it won't offend anybody, but I think I will think of my high power for the 12 steps as The Force.

21 days and counting.

Happy Thursday, and may The Force be with you...


Love it! And I'm so happy to read that you've found something - OA & The Force - that is working for you.
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby dlee » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:00 pm

Dis Looks like you're on a roll . Glad to see this happening. For me 8 days without getting a chai latte with soy milk! I think I've beat it now. Thanks for setting a great example. Dlee
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby Dissolution » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:33 pm

Chile Thanks!

LynnCS Thanks!

dlee That's great to hear!

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I went to OA on Friday night. It was a bit different, because the 2 people that normally lead the meetings weren't there. So they had one of the guys that's been attending for over a year lead. We had a new person there, he mentioned that he and his GF were following Fuhrman. I'm not overly familiar with the Furhman, but I thought it was a little more plant based that, just eat a huge salad before SAD meals. I did explain about the McDougall plan to him after the meeting.

I'm just not understanding how this OA thing is supposed to work. I was rereading the steps tonight, I'll go ahead and list them for those that haven't seen them:

1. We admitted we were powerless over food — that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to compulsive overeaters and to practice these principles in all our affairs.


I guess my question is, at which step should the compulsive eating stop? If you were struggling I mean. Step 7? 11? 12? Step 12 to me sounds more like a follow up, something to keep working on. Kinda like the Star McDougallers that continue to use the forums.

I still don't have a sponsor. What I do have though is 24 days of abstinence! Which from what I hear in the meetings is a lot better than many of the people who have been going longer.

Happy Sunday,

May the Force be with you!
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby nayasmom » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:48 pm

Step 12 is when you become a sponsor to someone else. That's bringing the message forward.

I think we never stop being compulsive. For me, however, this diet represents a quieting-down of the compulsive tendencies that kept me sick and fat before. I still eat compulsively, and it's Murphy's Law that whatever we obsess after will never be something that's healthy for us, right? But amazingly, my journey has led me to this point in my life where I'm not hankering after a plate of cheesy lasagna or whatever. I have no actual desire for foods that I know made me sick before and will make me sick again if I eat them. I get nostalgic for those "olden days" only because I didn't have to be odd man out in a group meal situation, and now I pretty much have to ask for modifications to everything I order, or if going to someone's home for a meal, I have to bring my own food to eat.
12 Step is meant to give you tools to predict when you feel a backslide coming on and how to prevent it from actually happening. The abstinence is about letting go of the object of the addiction, to the point its siren song is no longer quite so consuming. Don't mistake abstinence for no longer being compulsive. I think you'll find that one successful abstinence just leads to another abstinence needing a commitment. The trick is to only do one at a time, something you can handle over the long term, until that thing has no more power over you. It can take years.
For me, starches have been like a miracle cure. I'm lucky and blessed and happy.
Robyn
Great spirits have always met with violent opposition from mediocre minds. Albert Einstein


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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby Dissolution » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:12 pm

nayasmom I definitely realize I'm still a compulsive eater. Like an alcoholic that hasn't had a drink in 26 days, he's still an alcoholic, just a temporarily dry one. Part of my abstinence is not eating in between meals. This has been huge for me. It hasn't been that difficult, but it has shown me how much of a habit it was for me to just graze all day. Where I really got into problems was if I didn't feel like an apple or banana, then I would turn to things like pop tarts or worse.

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I weighed in Monday morning and I was down 1.7 pounds for the week. I guess that's pretty good considering my lack of exercise.

We had our combined Birthday dinner for 3 of our sons. Their Birthdays are all within a month of each other, so we just get the family together for one meal out, instead of three. The wife made each son their own Birthday cake in each of their favorite flavors. I had pasta primavera and no cake.

Speaking of the kids. #2 son is probably going to be kicked out of the military because he can't pass the PT test. This is the one that failed it a couple of years ago and did the Engine 2 diet for a couple of months. He lost 30 pounds and when he retook his PT test, he blazed through everything. Now he goes to the gym every day, he doing lots of weight lifting, but no cardio. He says he could never go vegan again, and he needs the lifting to release stress. He's 30 pounds heavier that last time he passed, and I'll give him that some of it is muscle, but he looks very plump, almost swelled. He would never admit to me if he was using bodybuilding supplements, because he knows my opinion of them. He's pretty much resigned himself to failing this month. I told him it was ridiculous for a perfectly healthy 28 year old to not be able to pass this PT test. Especially one who is already spending 7-10 hours a week at a gym.

It's getting late.

26 days....May the force be with you....
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby Dissolution » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:49 am

So today marks 1 month of abstinence from compulsive eating and adherence to my meal plan.

I went to Friday night OA last night. I typically learn things, but sometimes I just leave feeling grateful because my struggles seem mild compared to some of the people I come across.

One of the long term successful members said she thought I was on a "Pink Cloud", which AA defines as:
The temporary sensation of euphoria and well-being that is characteristic to those who are new to AA and sobriety. For most, the pink cloud eventually dissipates. This heralds the time to get down to business and start seriously working the Steps.


That may very well be. Although I don't think I'm feeling overly euphoric. I'm actually feeling some trepidation about the upcoming holiday season and my wife's baking escapades.

I guess we'll see.

Happy Saturday and may the force be with you...
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby fulenn » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:46 pm

Dissolution wrote:So today marks 1 month of abstinence from compulsive eating and adherence to my meal plan.

I went to Friday night OA last night. I typically learn things, but sometimes I just leave feeling grateful because my struggles seem mild compared to some of the people I come across.

One of the long term successful members said she thought I was on a "Pink Cloud", which AA defines as:
The temporary sensation of euphoria and well-being that is characteristic to those who are new to AA and sobriety. For most, the pink cloud eventually dissipates. This heralds the time to get down to business and start seriously working the Steps.


That may very well be. Although I don't think I'm feeling overly euphoric. I'm actually feeling some trepidation about the upcoming holiday season and my wife's baking escapades.

I guess we'll see.

Happy Saturday and may the force be with you...


You are not acting overly euphoric. Consider how well you did last time and how long you made your change successfully. It took a very specific, and long-running, set of circumstances to derail you. You are back to business now and very aware that the baking circumstances are about to happen again. Think about what you are going to do differently this time, have a back up plan or two as well, and forge ahead. I think you previously found a lot of ways to make your new eating habits work in your life and you simply did not have a successful strategy for dealing with the baking. Now you can try something else. Maybe find a bowl of something that you really like that you CAN have and keep it on the table, too. For me that would be raspberries. :D

Here's to your success!

Fulenn
What if love really IS the answer?

Read my journal about tackling Multiple Sclerosis with a plant-based McDougall diet in the journal forum on this site, Fulenn's MS Page.

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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby Dissolution » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:30 am

LynnCS I had always thought the term "one day at a time", was to help the people who were struggling/suffering. Now I think it's also a warning to those of us that think we have something beat. Just getting a little complacent can lead us back to where we started and lose all that progress.

Fulenn Thanks. I've always said, if I could ONLY eat the foods I planned on eating at the beginning of any day I would be great. And that's what I'm doing now. Plus removing the snacking has been hugely helpful.

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I forgot to weigh in last Monday. That's good because I'm not obsessing over weight, but I also can't avoid the scale because that helps me hold myself accountable.

This has been bugging me for a couple days. I know I eat fast and I do try to slow down. It's frustrating eating with the wife because she is so slooow. But she's slow at most things. Like getting out of the car, I'll be unbuckled, out and standing behind the car and then I'll hear her seat belt click. Anyways, back to the story. Saturday the wife, 2 sons and a girlfriend all were going to Ikea. We stopped at Macaroni Grill. Everybody had salad, the 4 of them shared a couple of appetizers. We all got our meals. I had penne pasta, broccolini, spinach, and mushrooms, with no oil. We all stopped eating about the same time, except I was the only one who ate all their pasta. The wife says this shows I still have a problem. Maybe so, but my point is I doubt I ate more calories than anyone else at the table, since I had no cheese or meat or oil. She says that doesn't matter I still ate more volume faster than anyone else. Maybe she is right, I don't know.

The wife is going forward with her Christmas baking. She even kept trying to get me to eat some of it, not directly asking me, just hinting at it. She made something new as a test, and couldn't get either of the kids that live at home to test it. She would drop hints that she wanted my opinion, but I just wouldn't take the bait.

Other than that the only thing bothering me is the Giant food brand frozen vegetables "Oriental Blend" Broccoli, Sugar snap peas, carrots and water chestnuts has been switched with "Asian Blend" Broccoli (mostly stems), shredded carrots, sugar snap peas, green beans, water chestnuts, red pepper and celery. I'm not happy....lol

Happy Monday
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby Nean » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:41 pm

Hey Dis. Glad to hear you are still at it. I can't imagine having to live with someone who so actively tried to prod me to return to my bad ways of eating and coping. It must be very threatening to her to see you keeping on the path to long term abstinence and change. I would not take any of her judgments about your eating pattern and style to heart. Your changes necessitate changes in the entire family's patterns. It's scary for them. But you can do it. You are doing it.
"I am very much in control of how I feel as long as I control what I put in my mouth!" Blue
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby dteresa » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:11 am

re: you ate more volume than anybody else. Isn't that the whole point of this woe? We have the satisfaction of being able to eat more volume and being satisfied yet still eating fewer calories. I do not think your wife grasps the principle of calorie density. It is too bad because if she is a great cook and loves to cook I bet she could prepare all sorts of really wonderful wpf no fat meals that people would rave about.

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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby dteresa » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:55 am

My own favorite saying from OA is ---a bite means a binge.

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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby fulenn » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:25 pm

Happy Thanksgiving! Hope today and this week go smoothly for you.

Fulenn
What if love really IS the answer?

Read my journal about tackling Multiple Sclerosis with a plant-based McDougall diet in the journal forum on this site, Fulenn's MS Page.

My blog: http://fulennskitchen.blogspot.com
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby landog » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:43 am

Just wondering how Dissolution is doing...
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby Morris » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:01 pm

I have been wondering the same thing.
Nancy (aka Morris)

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