Ben's journal

Share your daily McDougall menus and/or keep a journal describing your personal progress.

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Re: Ben's journal

Postby Ben » Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:35 am

Hi. I'm still here. Sorry for not getting back to the people who posted with their support. I appreciate it.

I've been meaning to post here for a few days, but with a new school term about to start here tomorrow I have been so busy!

About 10 days ago I started eating a significant amount less. Don't worry, I'm not eating too little, far from it, but I have eaten much less than normal. I haven't really changed the quality at this stage...just the quantity. I have lost 6 pounds! I would not expect to lose much more unless I changed something else, but it has been nice to see the first bit of loss in forever. I have not updaed my ticker because I can't wok out how to at this moment

I had a big thing happen that really made me want to lose weight. I won a teaching award for my state ( :-D ) and the next morning there was a large photo of me on the front page of the major newspaper that covers all of the state. People tell me it was a good photo, but I can assure you I looked very fat. Everyone saw it, including people in my old city who I have not seen in years because I did not want them to see how overweight I have become! I have been busted big time :oops:

I got a bit of an unpleasant shock to see that someone has written about my weight loss failures in their online blog recently. They did not give my name (so I will not use theirs) but I am almost certain it is about me. There are some things he has written that are factually incorrect, and other things, while technically correct, are juiced up with more extreme language than I think is necessary. It left me feeling disappointed and unsupported.

Anyway, I am going to start increasing the quality of food I'm eating, and decreasing the crap - particularly dairy.

Ben
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby janluvs2heel » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:28 am

Congratulations on your award, Ben!! I so know how you feel about seeing people you have not seen for a while & not wanting them to see that you have gained weight & also seeing a picture & going wow!! Is that what I really look like?

I saw that post, too. I also am pretty sure that I know who the woman was he was talking about, too. For me, I dont care if somebody wants to point something out, but at least be polite about it. When you post on this board, of course you expect replies, not to be whipped into submission. But some seem to think that is ok so I guess it is whatever gets your engine running. For me, it was Mike Teehan's lecture. And it made me feel hopeful & that yes, I can do this & yes, I am doing this. Well, not to worry, there are plenty of people here on the boards that will support you & not pass judgement. So put that behind you & just concentrate on doing what you are doing. Changing your diet for the better. There are people here who will attest that you have to go cold turkey, others who have to make gradual changes. I think what matters is that you keep going in the right direction. Dairy is a great place to start. Just be sure to keep your eye on the prize, so that you dont get sidetracked. Not just weight loss, (-6 lbs is a great start!!) but also feeling so good & so much healthier.
Jan
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby f1jim » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:54 am

When I read about someones eating mistakes I ALWAYS think of myself and relate it to my previous nutritional errors. It's perfectly normal. It's also normal for our defenses to rise up as that is the way we have been programed to do for some time. The answer is always in success. Doing what you need to do to get you in that almost magical place. Not necessarily what we feel like doing, what we NEED to do. You already have been around long enough to figure that part out. The tough part is how to execute that task. Not just how to start but how to finish. This way of eating is like painting a picture. You need all the right stuff like a canvas and oils. You have all that. Don't let yourself be distracted by anything. There are lots of ways to fail and few ways to succeed. Forget personalities and styles. It's what does and doesn't work. There are many examples of success on the board here. Young, old, male, female, wealthy and poor. None of that matters. What does is what worked for them. Not what some people say is working for them, not what some people hope will work for them. What HAS worked for those that succeeded. Everything else is a distraction.
Many people here will pat you on the back and watch as you make the same mistakes they do. Misery loves company. Don't forget that. Stay focused on what does work. What has worked before will work again. When someone says "it's allright to do this or that" ask yourself if they have succeeded. Or is this a social thing for them? Is this a place they just enjoy hanging around at or do they have a mission to help others get out of where they were?
There is a lot of help and support here but there are also a lot of minefields to get caught up in. Learn the differences.
Now, let's get to work!
"It is nighttime here again and I am unsure of my plan of action for now. I will see how I think about things tomorrow. I have a few ideas but will sleep on them"
Let's start there. Have you articulated a plan of action? Do it. Write it out if that helps reinforce it. Share those ideas as verbalizing makes them more concrete. Everything starts at the beginning. If you stumble out of the gate it's hard to win the race. Let's get your start down and work on that. The rest can come later. Back to basics like a good football team will focus on.
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While adopting this diet and lifestyle program I have reversed my heart disease, high cholesterol, hypertension, and lost 54 lbs. You can follow my story at https://www.drmcdougall.com/james-brown/
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby Gramma Jackie » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:27 am

I don't care what anyone thinks, I am just going to say what a lot of us here have been thinking the last few days-----those examples in the blog you are referring to were offensive. They were offensive to me personally as someone wanting to lose weight even though I wasn't sure who he was talking about. I can't imagine anyone saying the things he did, but I am not surprised that person did. I only know of one Star McDougaller with that overbearing and yes, condescending attitude. The rest have shared their successes and suggestions in a nicer way. We are here of course to encourage one another and yes, even to share our insights. Although Star McDougallers have much to be proud of and I do value their insights, that does not mean they are here to "monitor" us and whip us into shape. That is something we need to do ourselves, along with a healthy does of encouragment. Some people like getting their butts kicked I suppose, but if someone kicks me in the butt, I have a tendency to kick back. Others just get really discouraged and drop out. That is sad. I want to be an encourager. Ben ---any step you make towards getting healthy is a step in the right direction and I applaud you for it. You are the person who has to look at yourself in the mirror every morning. You are the one who has to live in your body. No one else can walk in your shoes, but you. In one of Dr. McDougall's videos he tells of people who took many years to get healthy. It's sure taking me a long time and it may take you awhile, but just remember we are all in this together. :)
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby Norm » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:14 am

Hi Ben!!

Just do it!! That's the easiest way to do this program. The closer I get to full compliance the more I wished I had just jumped in head first like so many here suggest from the start.
Some things are hard. Dairy was hard for me. I rationalized that I could just cut down a little at a time. And I did. But giving up that last little bit was a very hard thing to do... I've been Dairy Free for 10 days in what I was planning on being a 30 day "experiment", but I'm starting to realize I'll probably just continue with it when that's done.
Just do it!! But if you insist on doing it incrementally, know that it'll be even harder. Not impossible, but harder.

-Norm
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby Melinda » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:44 am

Hi Ben - glad to see that you are still here, and ccongrats on your weight loss AND your award for teaching. You must be a beloved and valuable teacher!
A blog you might find helpful and enjoy is www.zenhabits.net. Good luck!
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby WeeSpeck » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:47 am

Hi Ben,

Each time you recommit, bolsters your resolve that much stronger! I am really encouraged you can make this work.
--\--@ Nancy @--/--

I am but a wee speck in the big picture of the universe.
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby Adrienne » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:29 am

Hi Ben

You have received some good advice, particularly from Norm about ditching the dairy altogether. Just treat it as a non-food or something that you are seriously allergic to.

As for Bob's blog, it is his own private blog so technically he can write whatever he wants and people are free not to read it. I actually had no idea he was referring to you - I thought he was referring to someone else. You could always post a comment on his blog though if you feel he is outright incorrect.

My advice for you is something I have heard Jeff say several time : Focus on the principles, not the personalities.

So don't worry about what people may or may not be saying about you. In the bigger picture it doesn't matter. Focus on yourself, your goals and how you are going to achieve them.

As a side note, I do agree with GJ that some people simply do not respond well to being pushed too hard, or being "kicked in the butt," as she put it. Others do and since there is no psychologist on hand to read through posts and accurately predict what kind of advice each individual would best respond to (these days I actually think Doug Lisle having a forum would be more helpful than Jeff having one) it is important to keep in mind that all of the advice given is well-meaning even if it doesn't come across that way all the time.

Best of luck to you as you continue to move forward.
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby Ben » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:22 am

Thanks everyone for your comments. I would love to respond to each one but have just got to bed and am so tired (first day of school term here, and it was a big one).

Today I had much less chocolate than normal, about a tenth of normal, and what I didn't eat in chocolate I made up for in brown rice, so I consider that a step in the right direction.

Will post more tomorrow but thanks again everyone

Ben
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby Norm » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:48 am

Ben wrote:Today I had much less chocolate than normal, about a tenth of normal, and what I didn't eat in chocolate I made up for in brown rice, so I consider that a step in the right direction.
I consider it a step in the right direction too for you to have eaten 1/10th your normal amount of chocolate. Can you do that EVERY day? I bet you can.
But make any such indulgences contingent upon eating lots of starches. You can eventually eat less of the bad foods if you focus on eating more of the good foods. For instance, I was unwilling to give up meat. But by adding lots of whole grains to my diet I found myself wanting less meat. So I ate less meat and even more whole grains and I found myself wanting no meat at all. Make indulgences like chocolate a reward. For instance, if I've had any other cheats that day I do not have chocolate too. It's my new policy.
You have more things in your diet than chocolate you shouldn't be eating. You'd be better off just eliminating them and doing this program 100%. But if you cannot muster the willpower to eliminate them completely, then at least do yourself the favor of adding more of those foods you know you should eat. To quote the good doctor: "The more rice, corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, and beans you eat, the trimmer and healthier you will be". Before chocolate, have another serving of rice, then wait 20 minutes.
There is danger in just "cutting back", so if that is the approach you take you MUST set goals for yourself and constantly check your progress so that you are indeed moving closer to the goal. That is the only way I've pulled off my "incremental implementation" of this program. You can't go on forever constantly just cutting back. There has to be a measurable improvement, or you'll get a failing grade.

-Norm
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby SactoBob » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:33 am

Norm wrote:Make indulgences like chocolate a reward. -Norm

I don't think that this is a good idea for a person who has a long term addiction to chocolate. A few days ago, I saw another person new to the program advocating more water as a solution to obesity to another newbie. This too is contrary to what Dr. McDougall or Jeff or anybody knowledgeable would recommend.

I appreciate that in all cases the advice offered was in good faith and with the best of intentions. However it is my belief that such advice should be viewed very cautiously when offered by somebody who has yet to achieve long term success. Support is great. Referral to something said by Dr. M or Jeff etc. is great. But actual advice like this that has never been given by Dr. M or Jeff, I have a problem. I just don't see how a person who themselves has not shown that they understand and can apply the principles of the program by achieving some long term success can be qualified to independently advise others. I'm sorry for the possible hurt that this position may give to some, but I think that it is an important concept.
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby f1jim » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:05 pm

The problem with "rewards" is it gives them value. No matter the quanity, the brains still sees them as a positive, not a negative. I know for myself, it wouldn't move me towards my goal of eliminating the offending item just like rewarding myself with a cigarette wouldn't move me closer to non-smoking. Perhaps others minds work differently than my own.(I hear the sighs out there!) Giving something bad that kind of power is self defeating.
Those are my two cents.
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Last edited by f1jim on Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby afreespirit » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:36 pm

SactoBob wrote:I don't think that this is a good idea for a person who has a long term addiction to chocolate. A few days ago, I saw another person new to the program advocating more water as a solution to obesity to another newbie. This too is contrary to what Dr. McDougall or Jeff or anybody knowledgeable would recommend.

I appreciate that in all cases the advice offered was in good faith and with the best of intentions. However it is my belief that such advice should be viewed very cautiously when offered by somebody who has yet to achieve long term success. Support is great. Referral to something said by Dr. M or Jeff etc. is great. But actual advice like this that has never been given by Dr. M or Jeff, I have a problem. I just don't see how a person who themselves has not shown that they understand and can apply the principles of the program by achieving some long term success can be qualified to independently advise others. I'm sorry for the possible hurt that this position may give to some, but I think that it is an important concept.


Plenty of good sense in this post. The more closely we can adhere to what Dr. McD and Jeff say to do, and ONLY what they (not others, no matter how well-meaning) say to do, the more success we will have. Focus in on the proven methods. Any other approach, i.e. attempting to ease our discomfort, is playing with fire, IMO. :nod:

Really, once we get over the immediate pull of SAD, it isn't that hard. Your SAD tastebuds, or your life---it's that simple! After a while, the SAD tastebuds fold their tents and go away.

But I'm not telling anyone what to do, just what is working for me. The best thing is, once you lose the weight on McD--unlike any other method I have tried--it STAYS gone. Boy is that a first for me. Gone forever, as long as you stick with McD.

Hope to hear more from you Ben! :-D

--Sheila
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby Norm » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:11 pm

SactoBob wrote:
Norm wrote:Make indulgences like chocolate a reward. -Norm
I don't think that this is a good idea for a person who has a long term addiction to chocolate.

Thank you, Bob, for singling out that one sentence and hammering on it. I've read a bit of Ben's history and in spite of everyone's best intention he's spent a considerable period of time not making a lot of progress.
Obviously the "just do it" approach is not working here. It doesn't work for everyone. It didn't work for me. I had to implement this program bit by bit, and I'm not even all the way there yet. But I >AM< making significant progress, so I know there is hope for others who just aren't quite able to make that hurdle into full compliance all at once.
You can discount those who can't "just do it" all you want. You can dismiss them here or on your blog all you want. Me, perhaps I understand them a bit better. I >DID< tell him he'd be better off just doing it... I >DID< tell him there's danger in doing it this way.
As for offering advice that didn't come straight from Dr. McDougall's mouth or Jeff's mouth... we all do it. I've never watched one video or listened to one audio or read one thing by Dr. McDougall where he comes off as blunt and abrasive as you do. Am I going to admonish you for it? Tell you that you should tone it down to better match how Dr. McDougall would phrase things? No. Because there are a LOT of people who NEED the kick in the pants you provide. But some people don't respond well to your approach and perhaps you could consider that my approach, although alien to your mindset, might have some value for some people.
Ben, too, is equally free to dismiss everything else I said in my post and zone in on that one sentence and use it in a way the rest of my post doesn't support, but that will be his choice.
SactoBob wrote: I'm sorry for the possible hurt that this position may give to some, but I think that it is an important concept.
No hurt feelings here. You're expressing your hard earned opinion. I've read your success story. You've earned the right to speak your mind.

-Norm
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Re: Ben's journal

Postby SactoBob » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:30 pm

Norm wrote: As for offering advice that didn't come straight from Dr. McDougall's mouth or Jeff's mouth... we all do it. I've never watched one video or listened to one audio or read one thing by Dr. McDougall where he comes off as blunt and abrasive as you do.


You haven't been here that long, Norm. I don't think that John would say that he is not just as blunt. Go here
http://www.drmcdougall.com/store_electures.html and download his free lecture - ACLM Presentation at the bottom of the page.

I don't think it is fair to people who come here to be anything less than direct, or as you put it blunt. The fact is that many people have tried the approach you advocate. Count your chocolate chips and use them as a daily reward. Despite the many people who have tried that approach, my belief is that precisely zero have gone on to be Star McDougallers or achieve any significant long term success. Perhaps you have what it takes to be the first, and i wish you well. But until you prove your theories, wouldn't it be best to go with the approach that is advocated by Dr. M, jeff, Dr. Lisle, and all the successful people?

If you can make this work, I will stand in line to congratulate you, and say that you have found something that works. But right now, the only example you can really be is the same as I was - how to get into trouble. IMO, you are either going to get the chocolate and SAD foods out of your diet completely or you are going to add to the list of people who have failed here. The list is a long one, and I often think about some of my friends who no longer post because they have given up.

Dr. Doug Lisle has some DVDs on sale at the site here. It is very well understood what works and what doesn't. In The Pleasure Trap DVD, Dr. Lisle explains exactly why your approach does not work. His book is also very good. He explains why the cravings for the chocolate never go away if you are constantly teasing yourself with small amounts. That isn't my opinion, it is just a proven fact.

Drop Dr. McDougall an email, and ask him what he thinks of your approach. Tell him you would like to publish the answer. Or ask Jeff in his forum.

I'm hoping that you will eventually learn what you need to do and do it. It would be wonderful to have another star who has overcome a lot of adversity and come out on top. We don't need another failure who is sure they know a better way but just can't get there because of emotions or stress or whatever. Here's hoping you make it.

And in fairness, Norm, I did hammer pretty hard on that one statement. I am not against a tapered and scheduled withdrawal as an alternative to a cold turkey approach. I am just opposed to the notion of chocolate as a reward. That doesn't work, especially for a person with many years of chocolate addiction.

I offered to help Ben once before (still there if he wants it). I withdrew from that when it appeared that he was going go get contradicting advice from others that were committed to long term obesity on their own version of Dr. McDougall's plan. IMO, a person needs advice from somebody who understands what is needed and how to achieve it. There are just so many examples of advice coming from people who are well intentioned, but unable to help even themselves.
SactoBob
 

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