Ben's journal

[f1jim]

Hey Bob, it's my job to jump all over Norm. Okay, well Norm and I have been getting along pretty good these days and it's good to see him moving more in our direction. Don't tell him but I think we are rubbing off on him. I'm staying on him till he weighs about 125lbs
Meanwhile, back off and let me be the one to jump all over him!
Norm, Go to any of the McDougall events in Santa Rosa and you will have no doubts about Dr. McDougalls bluntness. It's no wonder most of the medical profession just rolls their eyes when his name is mentioned. They view him like an approaching train wreck! He always starts off talking about the wonderful things the medical profession has done and ends up roasting them alive. Ever here his fat vegan talk? Ouch.... You can hear the room wince pretty quickly on that one.
I'd go on except this is Bens journal and he is the only one we don't here enough from.
Ben?
f1jim

[Norm]

]IMO, you are either going to get the chocolate and SAD foods out of your diet completely or you are going to add to the list of people who have failed here.

I agree. I know where I need to go and I know I need to be there sooner rather than later. I know that the closer I follow this program the better it works. And I know that it is the benefits of this program, measured in weight lost instead of gained, measured in miles I can walk instead of feet I can hobble, measured in increased energy instead of decreased, and measured in feeling better than I have in many years... it is these benefits I'm already realizing that will give me the motivation to attain even more. It is the partial success from partial adherence that has motivated me to push harder and give up things I didn't think possible, and it is increased success from pushing harder that'll motivate me to go all the way.

But until you prove your theories...

It's not my theory. It's Dr. McDougall's. He said: "The more rice, corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, and beans you eat, the trimmer and healthier you will be" and I latched onto it and ran with it. When I couldn't muster the willpower to give up something forbidden I instead focussed on eating more of what was allowed, and it worked.
Partial compliance probably doesn't work as well at lighter weights, but at my weight it has reaped huge rewards, and it could do the same for Ben. It could start him down the path towards full compliance when nothing else has been able to for quite a while.

...wouldn't it be best to go with the approach that is advocated by Dr. M, jeff, Dr. Lisle, and all the successful people?

Yup. Sure would. Would for me, would for Ben, would for everyone who is struggling with this. But if we're unable to have what's "best", through our own shortcomings or mental deficiencies, wouldn't "next best" be a better place to start than to just give up on someone and let them go on to the long list of failures? I think so. I believe Dr. McDougall would think so.
Taken as a whole, I told Ben that 1/10th his normal chocolate intake was a move in the right direction. I challenged him to do that EVERY DAY, but to make it contingent upon adding more starches into his diet, and also contingent upon having no other cheats. I also told him such an approach can't stretch out forever, that real progress must be forthcoming. I laid out a clear path TOWARDS compliance for someone who hasn't been able to find his way there. Far from the hand-holding, "it's okay, you can keep chocolate in your diet forever" picture you tried to make it into.

If you can make this work, I will stand in line to congratulate you, and say that you have found something that works.

Yes. I have found something that works. It's the same program you're on. It's called The McDougall Program. I might actually believe it's even more powerful than you do! I believe any move in this direction is a good one and can be used as a stepping stone to get around hurdles that otherwise would have been insurmountable!

-Norm

[Ben]

Hi again. It's nighttime here after another busy day.

I appreciate everyone's advice. I really honestly do, and I am more than happy for people to post here with opinions, even if they are pointing out that they think I could do things differently.....but Bob, could I please request that you not post in my journal? I'm not finding the energy that I feel behind your posts (and I am aware I could be getting a different feeling from the one you mean to send) helpful at all, in fact the opposite, and I am still feeling annoyed at the tone of your blog post and the lack of goodwill I felt in it.

I get where you're coming from Norm. I fully believe that fully jumping into the program is the best way to go. I believe it so much that I have tried it many, many times, and unfortunately it has never worked for me. I'm now going to try something I have NEVER tried in over a decade I think and move into the program more gradually. But just because I'm saying I've decided this does not mean I won't change my mind if it turns out not to work very well, or if a point comes when I feel like it is worth trying to do it more fully again. At the moment I am losing weight and I think I still am even in the last couple of days. I did not do as well today as I did yesterday but it was a lot better than I was doing two weeks ago.

Ben

[SactoBob]

You've got it, Ben. And no hard feelings. I am for whatever works best for you. Good luck.

[afreespirit]

Pulling for you Ben! You have the desire, that is half the battle....and once you get rolling, you will be 50 lb smaller in no time. For starters.

[MTeehan]

Hi Ben!
WOW! If I had been on these boards back in 'in the day' you could have crossed out your name and put mine in and not a word would have needed to be changed! I just wanted to put in my two cents on the chocolate: ME TOO!!!! Can't live without it! Mary McDougall (I hope it was her's) had a recipe for chocolate 'ice cream' using Wondra fat-free chocolate powder and frozen bananas and a little fat free soy milk. I've been looking for her original recipe but can't find it. MANY times I used my two fruits this way. Now that I'm on regular McD I eat this EVERY single day!!! I used a little water instead of the fat free soy milk while on MWL. Remember Dr. John says, This is not an all-or-nothing program. The more you do the better off you will be. Have you considered doing MWL during the week and regular McD on weekends?
I'm looking at all your posts and I get a sense that you are just about to break through and start the ball rolling towards your inevitable success!!! Dead serious about this. Took me literally decades before I 'got it'! But once I 'got it' my life completely changed and I'm healthier and happier than I've ever been in my life. You are getting a LOT of support from people who once where you are and THAT is invaluable!!! Can't wait to read your 'Star McDougaller' story soon!!!!
Aloha,
Mike T

[Ben]

Thanks afreespirit, and Bob.

And thanks Mike! It's lovely to hear from you as I have watched your talk at VSH twice and have been really inspired by it. That drink sounds great. Do you mind giving me a rough idea of the quantities you use? And I assume you just mix them up in a blender? Yes, I am confident that I am going to make it work...it's getting to the point where I don't have any other desirable options

Ben

[MTeehan]

Hi Ben,
SORRY!!! During MWL it was two frozen sliced bananas, 3/4 cup fat free soy milk, depends on size of bananas (or just plain COLD water) and two TBS fat free cocoa powder. Blend on medium adding bananas SLOWLY.
Mike

[lmggallagher]

Hi Ben:
I am a newbie here and just today checking in on other people's journals to see how they are doing at the beginning. All I am going to say is YOU GOT A SIGNIFICANT TEACHING AWARD IN YOUR STATE. Hey dude, feel the glow of THAT ACCOMPLISHMENT it's just fantastic! The rest of this stuff will fall in to place soon enough. All the best to you and your progress in everything!

[to_our_health]

Thanks afreespirit, and Bob.

And thanks Mike! It's lovely to hear from you as I have watched your talk at VSH twice and have been really inspired by it. That drink sounds great. Do you mind giving me a rough idea of the quantities you use? And I assume you just mix them up in a blender? Yes, I am confident that I am going to make it work...it's getting to the point where I don't have any other desirable options

Ben

Hi Ben,
Most of the discussion I've seen on the frozen banana stuff is for "ice cream", actually soft serve. So many of us miss that, I know I did. So you slice very ripe bananas and freeze them (I put them on a tray first and once they are frozen dump them into a bag, this to keep them from all freezing together in one big clump).

I have a food processor and it works well with that (takes a while though to actually turn into soft serve from the frozen state). If you have only a blender then you would need to add the bananas slowly and keep blending as they take a while to turn into the right consistency. So take 2 cups of the frozen banana slices, just a tiny bit of alternative nondairy "milk" (I use almond milk, maybe a quarter cup because I make this soft serve rather than a drink), a splash of vanilla and keep going until it changes consistency. Then I add 2 tablespoons of Wonderslim cocoa (from Whole Foods, don't know who else carries it). Blend that in and you'll be amazed at how delicious this is. Let us know if you try it!

You can search for other recipe variations on the board...lots of people have tried it...

[Ben]

Thanks Mike, lmggallagher and to_our_health. I tried the chocolate banana ice cream today and absolutely hated it and I so wanted to like it! But I will try it again because I think. I added too much powder and it was too bitter. I also think I added too much rice milk so it was very runny. Thanks for your recipes, I hope tomorrow it works better.

And thanks lmggallagher for you moments about my award. I actually won a $20,000 (our $ is basically the same as yours right now) career development scholarship! I'm still working out what to do with the money, but I am going on a week study tour of Italy next April and at this stage I think I'll be going to the US for a couple of weeks in July. I can't wait, and I'm so happy about that prize!

I really want to be healthy, have energy and to have lost weight by these trips. It also looks like I'm getting my wisdom teeth out in January under general anesthetic. I really would like to have lost a significant amount of weight by then and also to have developed at least some cardio strength as general anesthetic as a very fat and unfit man scares me a bit (and when I had an a operation for my knee a couple of years ago the anaesthetist told me off for being so fat).

I have still been eating much less than I was up until a few weeks ago. I am down 12 pounds now from my heaviest weight. The quantity of food has decreased but the quality has not improved much.....but it is going to

Ben

[lmggallagher]

Hey Ben:

OMG - $20,000, how fantastic! You must put your everything into your job, how wonderful that you've been rewarded for your efforts!!! The trip to Italy sounds wonderful, but wisdom teeth out not so much! Please let us know about the other things you intend to do with the award funds - it must be so fun in the dreaming stage of maybe this or that

Sorry you didn't like the banana/chocolate thing. I have been waiting for your review of it. But it probably will get better as you experiment with it. Seems like everyone makes adjustments. I love how we all post our own versions! I haven't found the fat free chocolate yet and am holding off --I'm more than a little addicted to chocolate myself.

I just finished my first week and am down some, pretty happy about that and got the MWL book too this week. I actually did my first recipe last night and liked it. The rest of the week I was winging it. I think it takes time to learn this stuff. Until I get the hang of it it's going to be daunting, but like you I am moving forward with it, trial and error

Take care & we'll both just keep trying til we get it right

[Norm]

I have still been eating much less than I was up until a few weeks ago. I am down 12 pounds now from my heaviest weight. The quantity of food has decreased but the quality has not improved much.....but it is going to

Congratulations on the 12 pounds!! Losing twelve pounds merely by reducing your quantity of food is impressive. However, in my opinion, you're focussing on the wrong side of the equation. Until you change WHAT you eat you're only going to have limited success. There is plenty of time still to lose a good chunk of weight. By January 1st I could be 35 pounds lighter if I maintain my current pace. By mid January that could easily be 40+ pounds. There is no reason why you couldn't lose 3-4 pounds a week at your size, even without giving up all of your demons... and that'd be 27-36 pounds. If you kept that pace up till springtime you WILL have lost SIGNIFICANT weight, and by July you would be a new man. So stop telling yourself you're running out of time. You're only running out of time if you're not really serious about this.

By all means... reduce those foods you know you shouldn't eat. Eliminating them would be even better. But you HAVE to increase your foods that you are supposed to eat.

Do try that chocolate banana recipe again. Yes, chocolate in powder form is very bitter and if you got the proportions wrong it could come out disappointing.

-Norm

[f1jim]

Norms right. Just cutting out food is temporary and won't stand the test of time. It ultimately is about what you eat. I'd head over to Jeff Novicks section and bone up on caloric density. It's a perfect marriage for your issues. Figure out something you can do day in day out for a lifetime and you have solved the big riddle!
f1jim

[Norm]

I'd head over to Jeff Novicks section and bone up on caloric density. It's a perfect marriage for your issues. Figure out something you can do day in day out for a lifetime and you have solved the big riddle!

Excellent suggestion. Once you understand caloric density you have the tools to solve the "big riddle". I read up on it just enough to grasp the basic principle, but once I did I realized why I had to steer my food intake away from some things and towards other things. An excellent example for me is bread!! I bake some of the healthiest bread on the planet. It was eating lots of my bread that was the very first step in my dietary changes, and what started me on the road to weight loss. I had a very hard time understanding why something made from such healthy ingredients and was proven to help me lose weight was something I needed to eat less of.... until I understood caloric density. I still eat my bread and I enjoy it as much as ever. But I eat less of it than I was because of my understanding of caloric density. And my weight loss has increased as a result. At last weigh-in I was losing 4 pounds a week.

-Norm