Circle of Friends

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Circle of Friends

Postby LoriJenny » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:33 am

Hello....I'm starting this thread to continue the friendships formed in the Summer Challenge thread, since that challenge has ended. We also want to make new friends so:

if you are looking for a friendly place to post and talk about successes, struggles, recipes, information, strategies, exercise, and just life in general as we press on with this new way of eating... please feel free to join us :) Our goal is to encourage each other along this path.

So, lets make this thread a safe place to post without judgement or correction but of support and guidance when asked and needed.

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Last edited by LoriJenny on Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby LoriJenny » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:40 am

I started off my morning the same way I did yesterday, walked Bear for a few miles and then biked for 2 miles...I want to start slowly with the biking since I had the knee surgery a year ago.

Yesterday I was invited to go to a buffet with some friends I had not seen in a while. It was so great to see my friends, and at first I made super good choices, choosing the leafy green salad and fruit and rice, but I did go off plan a little bit after that. I'm sort of glad this morning to have no plans that involve going out to eat in the foreseeable future, so I hope I can really just focus and stick to this WOE for the next few months without fail.

I really want to read that book "The Pleasure Trap", I looked but they did not have it at the library. Sounds like it is really helpful, has anyone read it, can you tell me some of the basic principles you learned from it??
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby carollynne » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:50 pm

hi to all here! great idea Lori, and guess what? I had my weigh in and taping at the fitness center, and I have lost another 5 lbs by the records this nice lady has done for me on my card. plus my hip and arm and calf were also down too. so I am flying high. they ladies there are amazed by my progress. There is a luncheon date next Tuesday, and I always go and stick to the salad bar. this time I am bringing my red little potatoes in a baggie to eat on the way to Ruby Tuesday!!
so I did the water aerobics class, and the wii for about 7 min , but need to get back to that too. then I had gone outside to garden, and had to move a few of my stepping stones, no small job and weeded some, and chopped off 3 heads of cabbages. Gave 2 away, one to the water instructor with a bunch of my brocc, and she was very happy she said. She lost 100 lbs by herself, and looks terrific, but is not vegan. I plan on getting some cabbages in the freezer ,quartered up, blanched and save it for soup. That is all I know to do with them. Besides cole slaw fresh, and some wilted with other veggies too. Dh loves it raw too. Any other ideas, pleeze let me know... I have 3 more to cut down and soon.
LOri, congrats on your walking miles daily, little bear must love that. My Maxie gets a good walk in several times a day, but it is just around the whole property a few times here, now and then I got to the park.
You had knee surgery?? wow!! which kind was it, it I may ask that is?? I had the scope thingy, on Left knee, and it is doing better, then right knee has started up some too. Doing so much better since Oct with all this exercising and water class.
Don't feel too badly aver your few off plan choices, it is after all your free will and choice, you are not a prisoner! A treat now and then is ok, I know my triggers, and so keep away from them, like high sugary stuff!
I have lost about 60 lbs and never thought I'd be in the 150s ever again. cured my NAFLD!! Feel great!! Wt loss is so good for the knees and back, ankle, that I know I will never start back to the SAD way of eating again.
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby carollynne » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:16 pm

thanks for the info and recommendation on that DVd lecture, I really want to review it. wish it was on netflix for free@@ I am getting so so better on handling ppl's reactions.... I just charge right back and at times, say something mean spirited and that is not me at all. But whose business is it anyway? And my results are right in there faces too. i am truly getting better and better in shape, and that is no lie!
In fact I find now that I am getting up earlier and earlier and starting my day with teh wii, stretches at the kitchen sink, and I am just raring to go all day long. this is due to better eating habits, digestion, and of course all my exercising too. No more laying in bed til 730 or later!! I am up by 6 am, and today it was 4 30 am, since DH leaves by 4 am, and sons goes out by an hr or so later, it is amazing how my much I can get done now in the morning too. housework, yardwork, gardening, and then the fitness center too.
love it !!
I have lost about 60 lbs and never thought I'd be in the 150s ever again. cured my NAFLD!! Feel great!! Wt loss is so good for the knees and back, ankle, that I know I will never start back to the SAD way of eating again.
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby LoriJenny » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:36 pm

Welcome Carroll!! Thanks so much for all the info on that DVD...I think I definately need to watch it! I have been doing this since January and totally believe in it, but still find myself going off track when around friends or at family occasions etc.

Carollynne....You go girl!!! You are so awesome, I can just feel your excitment in your posts...so great how much energy you have now!! Can I ask, what weight did you start at???

I started at 193, although, honestly I did not weigh myself until I had lost some weight...so it could have been nearing 200...and now I'm at 168 and hoping to get to about 135ish...that is sort of a guess on the goal weight, I will know when I get there though!

I ended up doing 6.5 miles today...2 walks with Bear and then 2.5 at the gym on the treadmill...some of which was running!!!! Oh...and yep, I had knee surgery in April of 2010, I had a meniscus with 3 tears...I just had the arthroscopic sugery, but it's taken some time for it to heal completely. I'm hoping with the loss of some weight I will avoid needing the same surgery on the other knee...it is torn also, but for some reason does not really bother me.
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby TominTN » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:27 am

There's a version of Dr. Lisle's Pleasure Trap lecture on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxf4kj8Rb6Y

It's a talk he gave for the Vegetarian Society of Hawaii back in 2005.

There are also some reviews of the lecture and the book on youtube. Just search on "Doug Lisle" and they'll pop up.

Here's my take on Dr. Lisle's Pleasure Trap material. Basically, he explains that the situation we find ourselves in (overweight and sick) is due to genetic programming that served us well in a world of scarcity where calories were hard to come by, but that does not serve us well at all in a world of plenty where calories are easily available in large quantities.

As an example, he explains how moths are drawn to lights because in the dark night before artificial lights were invented, the moths that flew toward the moon wound up reproducing more (because they got higher and consequently had a better chance of finding a partner to mate with), so their offspring wound up with genetic programming that told them "Fly toward the light -- good things happen for those who fly toward the light."

Artificial lights pulled the rug out from under that genetic programming because the artificial lights DON'T offer the moths an advantage. Rather, they represent a deadly danger for the moth. The moon is so far away, no moth could ever reach it, so flying toward it is safe. But a nearby fire can be reached easily, and when the moth flies into it, they get toasted to a crisp.

Similarly, our genetic programming drives us to eat all the calories we can for the least possible energy expenditure. In a world of scarcity where calories were hard to come by, as they were for thousands (or millions) of years, this worked very well. When calories were available, we ate them. When they weren't, we might not be happy, but we'd be on the look out for the next opportunity to get some more.

Around ten thousand years ago, somebody invented agriculture and calories suddenly (in evolutionary terms, anyway) became MUCH more plentiful. Our genetic programming hasn't changed significantly in the last 10,000 years, so we're still motivated to get all the calories we can for the least expenditure of energy. For most of us, that means potato chips (or pizza or a burger and fries or ...) on the couch in front of the tube.

So that's what one side of the pleasure trap is: our genetic programming is constantly whispering to us, "You need calories or you'll die. There are some -- those potato chips. Eat them now! If you don't eat them now, you will die!" The genetic programming doesn't understand that too many calories can be just as bad as not enough. That was never a problem when the programming was being designed. So there's no cutoff to say, "Okay, you have enough calories for the next day or week or month now. You can forget about eating." It just keeps on forever encouraging us to eat more. It's very persistent and insistent and over time it's hard to resist consistently.

The other side of the pleasure trap is that we acclimate to pleasure over time. The first time you tasted a Dorito, it was SOOO GOOOD!! The second time, it was YUM! The third time it was, "Mm.. I really like these." The fourth time, "Mm... that's nice." After a while, you could down a whole bag while watching TV without even noticing. It was still enjoyable and you'd miss it if you didn't get it, but it was no longer as pleasurable as it was at first. To get the same level of pleasure, you'd have to have more intense flavor and more quantity. And that need for increased doses just keeps escalating because whatever level of pleasure we get to, we acclimate to it and want more. It's exactly the same way drugs behave.

So you've got your genetic programming pushing you from one side to eat everything in sight. On the other hand, the more you eat and more tasty stuff you eat, the more you need to eat to get the level of pleasure you're accustomed to, just like a cocaine addict has to keep increasing his consumption to get the same high.

The trap aspect is that if you try to stop eating at the pleasure level you're accustomed to, it feels AWFUL! It suddenly seems as if life isn't worth living. It's just like an alcoholic or addict trying get off their drug and looking into a bleak future that seems like it's going to be devoid of pleasure or fun ever anymore. So any attempt to reduce the level or intensity of consumption makes you feel like you're being punished. You are -- your genetic programming is punishing you for going against its wishes. It wants you to eat all the calories that are available because it "thinks" your life depends on doing that.

The only way to escape the pleasure trap is to understand its dynamic and tough it out until your tastes and expectations reset. It takes a few weeks, but then you're free.

There's more, of course -- the motivational triad (pain, pleasure, energy conservation), how our food choices affect our relationships (and vice versa), what it takes to overcome the genetic programming and get conscious control of our eating, etc. Dr. Lisle explains it much better than I can and he's a lot more entertaining. Also, he keeps reworking his presentations, adding new information and examples, and framing things in new ways. So if you get one DVD of his and have the chance to get another one another time, go for the second one, too. It won't just repeat the first one. And the book is really good, too. The book was my first exposure to his teaching and I doubt I could have gotten out of the pleasure trap without having read it.

So all the stuff about fat people being lazy and lacking in willpower that so many people seem to believe is really not a helpful way to look at the situation. We're all lazy in the sense that we're genetically programmed to conserve energy. That's why people get such a charge out of getting something for free -- I didn't have to work for it! No energy expenditure at all! That idea lights up the human brain because that's how it's programmed.

And the willpower we can exercise consciously is like a baby next to an 800 pound gorilla compared to the pervasive, unconscious power of our genetic programming. Unless we can get the unconscious portion of ourselves working for us, willpower means nothing. Once we get the unconscious portion working for us, willpower again means nothing. The unconscious is going to run the show. If we can get it going in a positive direction, we win. If not, not. And blame and judgement is pointless. We don't get to make choices about this stuff most of the time.

We can use our willpower to do strategic things like cleaning house and getting rid of all the bad food. If the potato chips are still there when I get hungry and tired, the programming is going to take over and I will eat them.

If you made it this far, congratulations. My fingers got carried away with themselves. I hope at least some of this has been helpful and given you an idea of what the Pleasure Trap is about.
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby LoriJenny » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:28 am

Tom, thank you so much for posting all that!! I really appreciate it, it is so interesting and now I understand a little better why I kept falling back into the same old habits, thanks too for that link, I'm gonna go look at it now :)
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby TominTN » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:48 am

Glad you found it helpful, Lori, and thanks for the feedback. :)
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby carollynne » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:44 am

HI to all! thanks for all that info, and I will be listening to the HVS talk later on. I had to come back and check on post didn't I, but should be outside with Dh doing some more yard work... it is nice and cool today so good day to work outside.
To Lori-- well I started out at 199 in Oct, but truly had advance back about 210 during the holidays but it came off easily, I had lost down to the 190s, altho the high 190's and stayed there for 3 yrs, Advance forward to last Sep, and I was ready to get serious, going vegan for real with 2 sons, Dh well, he had no say in this, I need to get healthy!! HBP, knees same as you really, with the same tear and surgery. took me a long while too to recover.....
Now I do not miss my triggers anymore, they fail to hold my attention exp when I remember all the side effects of eating any of it, and I am definitely off of the diary and meats. but the breads still call me a bit!! and by name too.
When I start up with the junkies, or any sugary stuff, I only get what I know I deserve, mainly the gassy, bloating, and constipation too! phooey on that, when I know what is on that road, I can avoid the entire city block, or county territory.
I am about done with any restaurant too, who needs them anyway. My money is better spent buying more great food to cook at home.
Welcome aboard to newcomers!!
love this WOE and how I am feeling too. I did the wii for 12 min this am, before I ate a thing. Then had my usual steel cut oats and fruit. reheated up little reds with paprika and garlic powder to. NIIIIICE
I have lost about 60 lbs and never thought I'd be in the 150s ever again. cured my NAFLD!! Feel great!! Wt loss is so good for the knees and back, ankle, that I know I will never start back to the SAD way of eating again.
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby Christine in Cali » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:49 am

http://www.30bananasaday.com/video/vide ... o%3A696799

Hi Friends.....I found the Pleasure trap on this web sight where they eat mostly fruit...all day and lots of it, and people think we are radical in this way of eating! Anyhooo Here is the link and it's free to watch.

Thanks Tomin TN for all your words of wisdom, It makes a lot of sense what you said....I watched the link late at night and didn't finish, so I had forgotten most of it....

I tend to falter at the Deli I work at when I am bored and tired and ALONE. I am surround by so much Junk food and like Carollynne said it called me by name....nag, nag, nag, eat me, eat me, you know you want to EAT ME!! Even as I am opening up the bag of cracker Jacks or other worse item.....I am telling myself think of how you'll feel?

I have been busy at the Salon lately and feeling good about paying most of my bills this month. I am going to a pot latch tonight which is a drumming circle and council, we talk about things in our lives and get support from the elders. We will also be talking about the next Vision Quest which I am debating if I will be going. We go into the desert by Mono Lake called the Granites, we go out alone for 3 days, only drinking water with no food. The first time I went it was magical and insightful to know I could do it and the second time I had been eating poorly for so long I was detoxing and very sick....that was a hard time for me. I have not been for 3 years now.

Alrighty then glad to have a new thread to come to, got to get going and get to work....everyone of have a glorious day.

C out
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby LoriJenny » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:00 pm

Hello...hope everyone is having a good saturday. Today started off with the Farmer's Market :) This is just a great way to start a day. Picking out fresh fruits and vegies and herbs, there is even a person there who sells no fat hummus...and it is so so good (expensive though). Anyway, I came home and made huge bags of salad that we will be able to pull out and eat all week. I think I'm going to make more of the Esselstyn blackbean salad that I like so much, it has blackbeans, tomatoes, green onions, cilantro, corn, and a balsamic vinegar and lime dressing...they also add water chestnuts, but I don't have any at the moment. This is so good on rice or in a wrap.

Christine...How does that Vision Quest work? Are you all alone in the outdoors or with a group? Is it kind of like camping? I read a book recently called "Unbroken" and the hero of the story is afloat in the ocean for weeks without much food, one thing he noticed is the clarity in memory, he felt like he could reach back and remember all sorts of details of memories that he had not remembered in a long time. I bet you would do good on it now that you have become healthier! It certainly sounds like a challenge!

Thanks Tom and Christine for both links to listen to Douglass Lisle...I'm really glad I listened to both, I think it took some of the self-anger out of this process for me...now I can understand better why I stray off the path at times, and how to avoid doing that.

I'm happy, content, relaxed...when it cools down a bit I will mow the lawn and walk Bear, and then I hope to sit on my porch this evening and read my book. Now I'm reading "Strength in What Remains".
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby circle city vegan » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:01 pm

I like having a place to come to with familiar friends. Thanks.

I am re-reading "The China Study" and then I'll read the Pleasure Trap again. I should probably find some trashy romance novel to read this summer. At least I have a kindle and no one knows I'm reading "educational" material. :D
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby LoriJenny » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:46 am

Circlecity, just wondering, can you get books from the library on the kindle?
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby carollynne » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:47 pm

Well, hi to all! today is a very cool day, and no need to put on the a/c, but DH likes to anyway... then I have to go outside to warm up! Now it is officially off tonight!
Picked some more of my brocc stems, and took a pic of the last plant.. I keep the plants standing since they do give off some more side brocc.
DS Eric made up a eggplant, zucc, tomatoe casserole yesterday. So that is what I ate up the last of, with brown rice and some nooch, Nutritional yeast. Then I had some no sugar added fudgcisle singles, and my tummy is in knots. I will learn, one day for sure that it has to be no diary for me!
DH had breaded frozen fish sticks, and chicken fillet with sweet and sour sauce, and skipped the salad. I had the salad, and the casserole Eric made and loved it. Plus we have all 3 been snacking on little red potatoes all day too. I boil them and then drain, and leave on stove. It has been on the hit parade now for a long time for the house.
Hope you all had a nice weekend. tomorrow starts a new week.
I have lost about 60 lbs and never thought I'd be in the 150s ever again. cured my NAFLD!! Feel great!! Wt loss is so good for the knees and back, ankle, that I know I will never start back to the SAD way of eating again.
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Re: Circle of Friends

Postby LoriJenny » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:52 pm

The weather here is a bit cooler than it was for a few days...nice little break!! I've been starting my days with walking bear and riding my bike, I did the same this morning. I put the black bean salad on brown rice for brunch this morning and it was oh so good!!! I might just do the same thing for dinner! I was having trouble feeling awake and energetic this morning, but then I found a wolf spider on my porch and set out to kill it. This involved a literal 10 foot pole, and lots of screaming...now I am fully awake and energetic and my neighbors probably think I'm nuts. Heeheehee...but my household is safe from that pest!! A little adreneline goes a long way I guess. Yikes!!! I do not like spiders!!!!
Hey, I've been without diet soda for about 5 days now! Yay!! Instead I have been drinking iced tea made with peppermint herbal tea with no caffeine.
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