Newsletter controversy

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Newsletter controversy

Postby EmmetFitzhume » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:40 pm

Doc is getting some serious criticism over on facebook about the most recent newsletter.
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2015nl ... labuse.htm

I guess the main gripe is that it seems to imply that if girls did not develop premature sexual characteristics they might not get preyed upon by sexual predators.

Apparently this means to some that McDougall is giving sexual predators an excuse for their behavior. Some seem really bent out of shape by this and are threatening to boycott Dr. McDougall and unfollow him..

The relevant bit:
The adverse consequences of premature sexual development permeate our society. The development of female breasts and buttocks activate natural male reproductive behaviors, causing some men to prey on girls. Precocious puberty encourages children to make unwise choices that very often lead to disease, pregnancy, single motherhood, premature marriage, divorce, disruption of the mother's education, and poverty. Also, a teenage mother has a far greater risk of complications of pregnancy. Precocious puberty is associated, later on in life, with more heart disease and cancer.

I'm on the docs side here. I don't think he would ever suggest that the victim was to blame. And many/most? sexual assaults have little to do with sexual characteristics. I would never blame the victim either. And yet I can't help but think premature sexual characteristics may invite attention from some predators.

Kind of like I would never blame a woman for being assaulted for walking alone in bad area of city. But if you can walk with a friend or wait till daylight you may avoid the predator. By helping children avoid super early puberty we might help them avoid some predators..
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Re: Newsletter controversy

Postby patty » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:27 pm

EmmetFitzhume wrote:
Kind of like I would never blame a woman for being assaulted for walking alone in bad area of city. But if you can walk with a friend or wait till daylight you may avoid the predator. By helping children avoid super early puberty we might help them avoid some predators..


Very well said!!!

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Re: Newsletter controversy

Postby lilypad » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:00 pm

I think he's worded it very badly and I can understand why SA/ rape survivors are triggered.

What I think is, that young girls going through precocious puberty and develop features early, may attract male attention they are not emotionally mature enough to handle. From guys who don't realise the girl's age.

I'm quoting 'Chris Wooster' from the Facebook discussion, and I think he's articulated what Dr McDougall is (hopefully) saying.

I and a billion or so other males on the planet are naturally attracted to sexually developed women and will instinctively look and appreciate their beauty. When we realize that they may be just children this is a source of horror for 99.999% of us


This is the part I have a problem with
The development of female breasts and buttocks activate natural male reproductive behaviors, causing some men to prey on girls.


Men will molest/ rape because they are predators and want power, not because they are attracted to the girl's body.
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Re: Newsletter controversy

Postby dteresa » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:11 pm

while precocious puberty may thrust children into the adult world of sexual feelings and experimentation before they are emotionally ready, from what I have seen over more than 50 years it is not necessarily an adult predator but an equally precocious schoolmate or neighborhood youth. And a physically mature 15 year old girl might get pregnant by her boyfriend who is 18, only three years older, making him guilty of rape and forever labelled as a sex offender. Now if she dresses provocatively and uses a fake ID to enter a night spot frequented by older men then yes, she will attract someone.

In fact, one might also say that precocious puberty might actually protect young people of both sexes from the true predators, pedophiles, who are not interested in victims who are mature enough sexually to develop those secondary sexual characteristics.

While I totally agree that processed junk food should be eliminated, especially in school vending machines to earn money for the schools and which is tantamount to pimping school kids for the sake of money, I would hardly call doing so sexual abuse. There is enough real physical and emotional abuse of children that feeding them twinkies, while a really bad idea for kids' health, is probably low on the list of things which should be labeled abuse. And parents, who know no better are overweight and eating the same diets they feed their kids. If they didn't buy the garbage those companies would go out of business.

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Re: Newsletter controversy

Postby lilypad » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:19 pm

dteresa wrote:In fact, one might also say that precocious puberty might actually protect young people of both sexes from the true predators, pedophiles, who are not interested in victims who are mature enough sexually to develop those secondary sexual characteristics.
didi


This is why his comment about 'causing some men to prey on girls' doesn't make any sense. Any man that preys on young girls is a paedophile. These girls are more likely to be victims of harassment by boys their own age. Not grown men.
Last edited by lilypad on Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Newsletter controversy

Postby pundit999 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:21 pm

When I read the newsletter when it came out, I was taken aback how poorly it was worded. I believe all he wanted to say was that the SAD causes early puberty. It is not what the nature intended and has the potential to cause many problems including social ones such as the premature attention from males.

This controversy is unfortunate and could easily have been avoided. Especially since Dr McDougall writes at an exceptionally high level and I like all his books in a large measure because of this.
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Re: Newsletter controversy

Postby Jumpstart » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:37 pm

I do know that there are those cases were a girl reaches puberty at 8 or 10. However this isn't the usual. During the middle ages the church established the age of puberty at 12 for girls and 14 for boys. I assume these ages became standard because the vast majority actually reached puberty at 12 and 14. The development of boys and girls in general over the past five decades has been amazing. The height of the average girl and boy at maturity has risen dramatically. Is this the result of meat, or simply better nutrition in general. I also do know that late puberty is often caused by poor nutrition. So, did some kids in generations past or centuries past end up reaching puberty at 16 to 18 because it was natural or because poor nutrition delayed it? A study in Kenya showed a delay of 2.5 to 3.0 years due to poor nutrition alone.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/36/3/527.full.pdf
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Re: Newsletter controversy

Postby soul food » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:08 pm

Diet: The One Important Solution to Sexual Abuse


https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2015nl ... labuse.htm

I think this is poorly worded. Does he really believe it is a SOLUTION to sexual abuse?
I just can't go with that.

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Neuroplasticity, "neurons that fire together, wire together", this is the HOW to for good and bad habits.
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Re: Newsletter controversy

Postby openmind » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:25 am

EmmetFitzhume wrote:Doc is getting some serious criticism over on facebook about the most recent newsletter.
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2015nl ... labuse.htm

I guess the main gripe is that it seems to imply that if girls did not develop premature sexual characteristics they might not get preyed upon by sexual predators.

Apparently this means to some that McDougall is giving sexual predators an excuse for their behavior. Some seem really bent out of shape by this and are threatening to boycott Dr. McDougall and unfollow him..

The relevant bit:
The adverse consequences of premature sexual development permeate our society. The development of female breasts and buttocks activate natural male reproductive behaviors, causing some men to prey on girls. Precocious puberty encourages children to make unwise choices that very often lead to disease, pregnancy, single motherhood, premature marriage, divorce, disruption of the mother's education, and poverty. Also, a teenage mother has a far greater risk of complications of pregnancy. Precocious puberty is associated, later on in life, with more heart disease and cancer.

I'm on the docs side here. I don't think he would ever suggest that the victim was to blame. And many/most? sexual assaults have little to do with sexual characteristics. I would never blame the victim either. And yet I can't help but think premature sexual characteristics may invite attention from some predators.

Kind of like I would never blame a woman for being assaulted for walking alone in bad area of city. But if you can walk with a friend or wait till daylight you may avoid the predator. By helping children avoid super early puberty we might help them avoid some predators..


"causing some men to prey on girls."

I think people are misunderstanding the meaning of this phrase. I don't see this statement as referring to sexual predators, as we typically define them. I think it's referring to your average man who chases after women.

Most heterosexual men chase women. It's in our nature. And there is nothing wrong with it as long as everything is consensual and the target of our affections is of age.

But it does happen more often than we like to think that a man (someone over 18) chases a girl he thinks is at or above the age of consent, only to find out later (hopefully, before anything has occurred) that the girl was underage. This subject was treated humorously in the 1970s movie Animal House, in which one of the characters suddenly discovers the 'woman' been he's having a relationship with is only 13. I thought of that scene as soon as I read this newsletter.

So basically, what I think the good doc is saying is that some men inadvertently prey on girls whom they mistake for women because they've reached puberty too soon.

I totally agree with Dr. McDougall- early onset of puberty will cause some men to prey on girls. I don't think there's any doubt about that. On the other hand, there are sexual deviants out there who will prey on young children regardless of their age or level of sexual maturity. This is a totally different category and part of a different discussion.
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Re: Newsletter controversy

Postby lilypad » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:55 am

Instead of labelling it 'sexual abuse', which is the intentional violation of young children.

It should have been 'Unwanted attention from males who don't realise the girl's age'. Which is totally different. Sexual abuse is physical and predatory.

I can understand why victims of SA/ rape were upset by what was said.
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Re: Newsletter controversy

Postby scooterpie » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:33 pm

I can just see a child sexual abuser using this as a defense. "Hey, her mother fed her wrong and so I didn't know she was 12. It's the food! Put her mother in jail. I don't belong here!"

See: Twinkie defense
"Twinkie defense" is a derisive label for an improbable legal defense. It is not a recognized legal defense in jurisprudence, but a catchall term coined by reporters during their coverage of the trial of defendant Dan White for the murders of San Francisco city supervisor Harvey Milk and mayor George Moscone. White's defense was that he suffered diminished capacity as a result of his depression.


One of over 50 FB comments:
Dr. McDougall-
I am a staunch supporter of yours and have used your name more times than I can count with my patients in the ED that are suffering from preventable disease. However, I read your recent newsletter several times in an effort to somehow rationalize what was said on child sexual abuse.

I am almost without words. While I whole heartedly agree that the meat and dairy filled diet is contributing to early maturation, resorting to victim blaming is atrocious. Stating "development of female breasts and buttocks activate natural male reproductive behaviors, causing some men to prey on girls". Unbelievable!!

Being a young lady that matures early is not an excuse to be sexually abused. The statement all but excuses the perpetrator for abusing a child! The perpetrator is mentally ill. A child is vulnerable. Children that are sexually abused are typically "groomed" for that behavior. The perpetrator abuses the child over and over again by creating a fear of safety for crying out and/or the idea that the abuse is somehow "normal" behavior.

I am a Registered Nurse. A Forensic Nurse. A Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner. I see adult and child victims of abuse as my job. We as a society have the tendency to blame victims of their own abuse (e.g. "You shouldn't drink so much " "you should wear a longer skirt" "don't flirt, boys can't control themselves").

Abusers/perpetrators are responsible for their actions. Victims should never be blamed. A child carries the shame and guilt forever resulting from abuse. Stating that because a child gets breasts early it is somehow her fault that a man sexually abused her is disgusting and appalling. Shame on you.


Wonder what the explanation of a man sexually abusing a boy of 12 would be; a woman doing the same; a woman sexually abusing a girl of 12. Sexual abuse is about having power over a victim. Period. Enough men (often teachers, so-called fine, upstanding and educated people) are caught knowing the age of their victims that for Dr McDougall to make a leap and use food to excuse this behavior is quite extraordinary.
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Re: Newsletter controversy

Postby lilypad » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:51 pm

Someone new to McDougall diet, or looking into it, could find his Facebook and see this controversy and be completely put off.

It's embarrassing. It makes him look irrational.

I personally think it's just very badly worded, but it's extremely offensive to girls who've experienced SA.

Ok, ok, so Dr McDougall isn't the only person to come to this conclusion. Just done some Googling.

From Wikipedia
Early puberty is believed to put girls at higher risk of sexual abuse,[14][33] unrelated to pedophilia because the child has developed secondary sex characteristics; however, a causal relationship is, as yet, inconclusive.[33] Early puberty also puts girls at a higher risk for teasing or bullying, mental health disorders and short stature as adults

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precociou ... -Mendle-33

Marcia Herman-Giddens at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, US, who first noted the declining age of puberty in US girls in a landmark 1997 study, says the findings are further cause for alarm.

“There are huge health and social complications,” Herman-Giddens warns. “Imagine being eight or nine years old and having men hit on you because you have breasts. Grown women have enough trouble dealing with unwanted sexual advances – imagine being in the fourth grade.”

She adds that girls who start puberty early do not do as well in school, are more likely to be depressed, and engage in early sexual activity and alcohol use. Previous studies have also shown that early puberty leads to increased rates of reproductive cancer later in life.

http://web.archive.org/web/200804190727 ... girls.html
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