do we need to consume cholesterol?

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do we need to consume cholesterol?

Postby galieddon » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:36 am

In the book "Grain Brain" by David Perlmutter, the author states that our liver produces up to 2,000gr cholesterol daily and this production is complex and taxes the liver. That's why it is very important to get cholesterol from foods: it is much easier for our bodies to absorb than to produce its own.
Does this mean that our body needs 2kg cholesterol every day to support its functions?
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Re: do we need to consume cholesterol?

Postby f1jim » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:44 pm

No
The production of cholesterol is no more taxing on the body than any other natural process. The book has been thoroughly discredited on many threads here on the forum. It's rather silly to think that the production of any compound by the body is too taxing on it. I can't wait to hear the same argument for hormones, or other compounds the body easily synthesizes.
The better argument would be that the body can easily adjust the exact content and quantity of cholesterol without overloading it with cholesterol from the diet.
I guess thats what happened to those poor centenarian Okinawans. They suffered from the taxing of not enough dietary cholesterol so they had their lifespan cut short to only 110 or 115.
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Re: do we need to consume cholestero

Postby DavidLavin » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:07 pm

Our bodies need cholesterol , that is why the liver produces all the cholesterol needed. That does not mean we should help the liver by eating food that contains cholesterol( animal products0 . No body needs outside cholesterol without paying the consecuences.The thing is people are adicted to meat and animal products and and what better than a guy doing a study for the meat industry that tells us to eat lard , and fat because heart disease is not related to high cholesterol. that is crazy I cant forget Robert Atkins He paid the price and was overweight if you want to be polite but in real he was OBESE.
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Re: do we need to consume cholesterol?

Postby Veritas Liberabit » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:23 am

f1jim wrote:No
The production of cholesterol is no more taxing on the body than any other natural process. The book has been thoroughly discredited on many threads here on the forum. It's rather silly to think that the production of any compound by the body is too taxing on it. I can't wait to hear the same argument for hormones, or other compounds the body easily synthesizes.
The better argument would be that the body can easily adjust the exact content and quantity of cholesterol without overloading it with cholesterol from the diet.
I guess thats what happened to those poor centenarian Okinawans. They suffered from the taxing of not enough dietary cholesterol so they had their lifespan cut short to only 110 or 115.
f1jim


What I don't understand is why the Asians are constantly used as examples. First, Japan and Okinawa are Islands. Groups of people that are indigenous to islands rely on fishing for a good portion of their diet. Okinawans and Japanese eat a lot of fish as well as chicken and beef (to a lesser extent due to insufficient space to farm). They have fished so much and for so many thousands of years that they have depleted their own waters and have moved to other country's waters for fish. Also, China for some reason comes up a lot; especially the China study. I am not refuting the results but the fact of the matter is that in 1973 the average life expectancy in China was 65 (US was 71 at the time). What does your heart health matter if you don't live long enough to see it fail? And most of the plant-based Chinese in the study were too poor to afford meat anyway; they weren't keeping to the diet by choice.
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Re: do we need to consume cholesterol?

Postby f1jim » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:25 am

Okinawans only consumed 5% of their calories from any animal sources. They got most of their calories from sweet potatoes. Not sure where you heard they consumed lot's of fish. Hawaiians native diet was the same. Most of their calories were not from fish but from poi made from taro.
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Re: do we need to consume cholesterol?

Postby Veritas Liberabit » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:30 pm

f1jim wrote:Okinawans only consumed 5% of their calories from any animal sources. They got most of their calories from sweet potatoes. Not sure where you heard they consumed lot's of fish. Hawaiians native diet was the same. Most of their calories were not from fish but from poi made from taro.
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"In 1992 scientists at the Department of Community Health, Tokyo Metropolitan Institute of Gerontology, Japan published a paper which examined the relationship of nutritional status to further life expectancy and health status in the Japanese elderly[1]. It was based on three epidemiological studies. In the first, nutrient intakes in ninety-four Japanese centenarians investigated between 1972 and 1973 showed a higher proportion of animal protein to total proteins than in contemporary average Japanese. The second demonstrated that high intakes of milk and fats and oils had favourable effects on ten-year survivorship in 422 urban residents aged sixty-nine to seventy-one. The survivors revealed a longitudinal increase in intakes of animal foods such as eggs, milk, fish and meat over the ten years. In the third study, nutrient intakes were compared between a sample from Okinawa Prefecture where life expectancies at birth and sixty-five were the longest in Japan, and a sample from Akita Prefecture where the life expectancies were much shorter. It found that the proportion of energy from proteins and fats were significantly higher in the former than in the latter."

"The main meat of the diet is pork, and not the lean cuts only. Okinawan cuisine, according to gerontologist Kazuhiko Taira, "is very healthy-and very, very greasy," in a 1996 article that appeared in Health Magazine.19 And the whole pig is eaten-everything from "tails to nails." Local menus offer boiled pigs feet, entrail soup and shredded ears. Pork is cooked in a mixture of soy sauce, ginger, kelp and small amounts of sugar, then sliced and chopped up for stir fry dishes. Okinawans eat about 100 grams of meat per day-compared to 70 in Japan and just over 20 in China-and at least an equal amount of fish, for a total of about 200 grams per day, compared to 280 grams per person per day of meat and fish in America. Lard-not vegetable oil-is used in cooking. Okinawans also eat plenty of fibrous root crops such as taro and sweet potatoes. They consume rice and noodles, but not as the main component of the diet. They eat a variety of vegetables such as carrots, white radish, cabbage and greens, both fresh and pickled. Bland tofu is part of the diet, consumed in traditional ways, but on the whole Okinawan cuisine is spicy. Pork dishes are flavored with a mixture of ginger and brown sugar, with chili oil and with "the wicked bite of bitter melon."

Deborah Franklyn, "Take a Lesson from the People of Okinawa," Health, September 1996, pp 57-63
Shibata H., Nagai H., Haga H., Yasumura S., Suzuki T., Suyama Y. Nutrition for the Japanese elderly. Nutr & Health. 1992; 8(2-3): 165-75.
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Re: do we need to consume cholesterol?

Postby f1jim » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:34 pm

We have to differentiate between the diets today and the diets the centenarians consumed most of their life. It does little good to examine current diets except as a log for future examination.
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Re: do we need to consume cholesterol?

Postby Veritas Liberabit » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:46 pm

f1jim wrote:We have to differentiate between the diets today and the diets the centenarians consumed most of their life. It does little good to examine current diets except as a log for future examination.
f1jim


But then why is the life expectancy steadily increasing?

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explo ... l=en&dl=en
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Re: do we need to consume cholesterol?

Postby f1jim » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:19 pm

How long someone lives is a complicated mix of diet, genetics, medical access, available medical processes, and lot's more.
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Re: do we need to consume cholesterol?

Postby Ltldogg » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:23 pm

As Jeff Novick has pointed out, the long-lived Okinawans only consumed about 1% of their calories from animal products:

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Re: do we need to consume cholesterol?

Postby Jumpstart » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:15 pm

Actually, based on one and only one study did the Okinawans eat less than 5% of their calories from animal products and that was post war for a period of about 5 to 8 years. it was a privation diet during that period and what the 1949 study was based on. The balance of their over 100 year existence (and 3 other studies) averaged 22 % fat and 15/20 percent protein from various sources which is between .88 grams of protein (for the men a average of 43.7 grams) per kilogram of body weight while the women consumed (40 grams) 1.06 grams of protein per kilogram. While they only ate about 1100 calories on average and therefore the calories from protein and fat seemed low, they were not. BECAUSE, the average weight of the women was 83 pounds at 4 foot 6 inches while the men weighted in at 110 pounds at 4-10. That also throws out the whole concept of hara hachi bu (eating until 80% full) since on a calorie per kilogram of weight basis they eat almost as many calories as the average person in the US.

Actually how and what they eat really doesn't make a difference since WE do not eat ANY meat, fish OR OIL and therefore we can't compare ourselves to the Okinawans anyway, or for that matter any Blue Zone group. WE as a group are unique in history. There has never been any group, vegan or otherwise that has eaten a diet so low in fat of any kind. or for that matter low in protein when viewed on a gram per kilogram basis. What and how we eat, and don't eat is based to a large degree on faith and at this point in time not proven in science. In fifty years if this WOE is still around and has a hard core membership raised on it we'll have a better indication if our faith was justified, or if it was just another interesting theory.
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Re: do we need to consume cholesterol?

Postby f1jim » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:26 pm

But it does make a difference. There are several charts that associate meat consumption (and fat consumption) with high rates of chronic disease. We choose to view these charts as meaningful. We also choose to find meaning in the trends those charts show. That is, more meat more disease, less meat, less disease. None of these studies are double blind, they are simply demographic stats we think are relevant. We believe human history showing these trends tell us this diet should be healthiest. We think those stats, combined with a wealth of clinical data make this more than a giant roll of the dice.
I agree no large populations ever ate a truly meat free diet. For all but a tiny part of humans existence survival meant eating anything one could lay their hands on. Of course, significant numbers of people still find themselves in a similar position based on geography and economic circumstances.
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Re: do we need to consume cholesterol?

Postby Jumpstart » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:46 pm

That our way of eating is the best I have no doubt. However, I don’t like being lumped in with a crowd even when it contains Okinawans, Cretans, or 7th Day Adventists. These folks are like the Army, Navy, and yes even the Marines. We on the other hand are the Special Forces. We are the elite. Make no mistake; no one has ever eaten as we eat. This is a grand experiment and we won't have our beliefs confirmed for many years to come and probably not in our lifetime. I don’t have a problem with this. I like the idea of being one of the elite. We are like the early Christians, not loved and often hated, but that’s OK, because like them I know we are right. And someday we will be vindicated: that’s enough for me.
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