Success but Questions? (HDL)

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Success but Questions? (HDL)

Postby BeanBubby » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:03 am

Hello Everyone!!

I've been lurking at this site for the past month. It's been four weeks ago today that I started eating this way after reading Dr. Esselstyn's book, as well as Dr. MacDougall's testimonies.

I went today to have my cholesterol/glucose checked and I was very pleased!

My prior readings were taken about three months ago, and I started eating plant based one month ago today.

Prior: TC: 206 Now: 151!! Almost where I want to be!!
Prior: Tri: 149 Now: 98
Prior: LDL: 144 Now: 107

BUT (this is what made me nervous):

Prior: HDL: 40 Now: 25!!! (Glucose was also high at 103)


The nurse actually frightened me saying my ratio is now 6.0...not good at all. But I knew in the back of my head after reading so much wonderful information that when all cholesterol lowers, so does the HDL. So I am trying to think very positively!! I recently started exercising regularly..walking 3 miles a day. I have been a rigid adherent to the program and am enjoying feeling so very much better!!

I guess I'm posting for a little reassurance. :)

Thank you all!
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Re: Success but Questions? (HDL)

Postby f1jim » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:10 am

Good work on your numbers. Your cholesterol is looking nicely and the HDL fraction is fine. It will come up with the walking you are doing but it will take some time. Don't sweat the low HDL. It just means there is less oxidized LDL for it to transport and that is the key thing.
Congrats on your gratifying turnaround.
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While adopting this diet and lifestyle program I have reversed my heart disease, high cholesterol, hypertension, and lost 54 lbs. You can follow my story at https://www.drmcdougall.com/james-brown/
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Re: Success but Questions? (HDL)

Postby BeanBubby » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:22 am

Thank you so much! I really am determined to make this a lifestyle.

Both of my parents had heart issues, with bypass surgeries. My Dad had a heart attack at 62, and two surgeries within ten years. My Mom had bypass at 68 that never solved her angina because of 'tiny blood vessels'. I am 50 years old, a woman, and quickly closing in on the age that my father first had his symptoms. I am soo very appreciative that I found this way of eating!

I do have an interesting little anecdote: When I went to the clinic this morning, I watched as the nurses took several patients in front of me. Almost all of the patients had to stand up to get the blood to flow from the little lancet prick. When I had mine done, the nurse exclaimed, "Finally, someone with good blood!!". I guess she had no problem getting what she needed. All I kept thinking was that perhaps I didn't have the fatty sludge in my blood anymore!!

Thank you again,

Bubz
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Re: Success but Questions? (HDL)

Postby Jubilee » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:44 am

Wonderful results, Bubz!!! No medicine out there can boast that it drops the TC by 50 points in one month! Three cheers for a plant-based diet. And the triglycerides coming down 50 points as well- great!!

The nurse is wrong about the ratio thing. Keep in mind the results of the Framingham nurses study. That study kept track of a bunch of people and among other things, correlated their heart issues with their cholesterol over many years. (Maybe someone can give a link or more specific numbers). Anyhow, the number I remember very well is how many people who had TC of 150 or less had heart attacks. The answer? ZERO!!! Never mind their ratios- it's TC that is the best predictor of heart health.

And way to go on the sludgeless blood! Don't you love those little victories and the comments that reinforce us in this WOE?

I once was in a Wild Oats store and a nurse was giving cholesterol checks, etc. in the dining area. This was several years ago when I was McDougalling for the first time. I sat there eating my vegan potato soup and watching a few people get checked. I debated on spending the $20 since I was pretty sure mine was fine though it hadn't been checked in years, but I decided it'd be fun. The nurse's shock and comments were worth the whole $20. Made my day.

Apparently you were supposed to be fasting, and she'd seen me eating, so as she was drawing the blood, she warned me that it might be a little high but she'd try to account for that in my report. Then it came back about 120! She was shocked and said it was the best result she'd seen all day, or for a long, long time for that matter! She had a stack of paperwork to give people about meds and stuff, and she kind of sheepishly offered me some, but wasn't surprised when I declined. After all, there is no med out there that holds a candle to the McDougall program for health.

Welcome to the board, BB.

Blessings,
Jubilee
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Re: Success but Questions? (HDL)

Postby TominTN » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:10 am

Bubz, congratulations on your improved numbers! You have greatly reduced your risk of cardiovascular disease.

Jubilee wrote:The nurse is wrong about the ratio thing. Keep in mind the results of the Framingham nurses study. That study kept track of a bunch of people and among other things, correlated their heart issues with their cholesterol over many years. (Maybe someone can give a link or more specific numbers). Anyhow, the number I remember very well is how many people who had TC of 150 or less had heart attacks. The answer? ZERO!!! Never mind their ratios- it's TC that is the best predictor of heart health.


I agree about the nurse being mistaken. And I used to enjoy pulling out the "no heart attacks under 150" from the Framingham Heart study (the Nurses study was another one) until I saw this material from Jeff where he points out that actually there were 6 heart attacks at cholesterol levels under 150:

viewtopic.php?p=206918#p206918

Does this mean it's all been an illusion and getting your TC under 150 isn't worth it? No, that's not what it means at all. Six is a very small number of CV events across about 15,000 participants in the study (three generations of the population of Framingham, Massachusetts). Lower cholesterol levels are associated with better outcomes but life doesn't offer guarantees. Risk never goes to 0.

My understanding is that as TC drops, HDL level becomes less necessary. According to Dr. Castelli (former director of the Framingham study) in the interview linked from Jeff's post above, lowering triglycerides is very important too because lower trigs indicate a healthier form of HDL and LDL. In particular, there's this exchange between the interviewer and Dr. Castelli:

KIRK HAMILTON: Now how about if somebody let's say was on a very strict no-fat, let=s say vegan diet. And let's say for example the Tarahumara Indians have very low cholesterols but they have very low HDLs as well and so they have a high cholesterol/HDL ratio but they don't have atherosclerosis. Does it get less-

DR. WILLIAM CASTELLI: Well if they have a low enough LDL, see I get sent people that have a 10 HDL and a 4 HDL and you'll never be able to get their ratios down. But then I take your LDLs under 70 and your triglycerides under 60 and now you don't need HDL. It was actually Michael Brown of Dallas there with Goldstein, one of the Nobel laureate folks, he used to say if your LDL was under 90 or 80 you didn't need HDL. Well I don't think that's true but if you're a lot lower than that, you probably don't need HDL. The idea was your cells were not making more cholesterol than they could use, so you didn't need HDL to take away the excess because if they make more than they can use, they make a fat deposit in the cell of cholesterol and if it's a cell that's in your artery wall you get the atherosclerosis. We need to get those triglycerides down to get rid of the atherogenicity of these particles and at the same time improve the nature of the LDLs and the HDLs.


There's a whole website just about the Framingham Heart study: http://www.framinghamheartstudy.org/
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Re: Success but Questions? (HDL)

Postby ETeSelle » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:05 am

Ditto. Don't worry about HDL. Your body doesn't NEED as much of it now b/c it has so much less LDL to deal with. It's natural and safe for it to drop.

Remember that lab 'normals,' to which your results are being compared, are the 'normals' of SAD eaters for the most part! So you must take some of them w/ a grain of salt.

Dr. McD on Why HDL “Good” Cholesterol is Not Worth Your Attention
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Re: Success but Questions? (HDL)

Postby BeanBubby2 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:53 pm

I'm back. After numerous name changes...4MyHeart, OnlyPlants...I am back yet again. :)

I felt kinda encouraged realizing my first join date was two years ago! Wow...how time flies!

My cholesterol as of latest reading was doing well...again 151. I am going again the 16th of May and will repost. I'm hoping it's lower. :o)

12/20/12

Total: 151
HDL: 27
LDL: 101 (Wanna chase these wayyy down!)
Tri: 114

These two years have taught me a lot. I have fallen off the wagon for weeks at a time (never returning to meats, but occasional yogurt and wayyy too many fatty plant foods). I have seen my cholesterol skyrocket to 230-something :shock: :eek: . And I have been able to compare my health in good food times, and bad. There is no comparison. There is a very clear vast improvement when I'm all plants. And the closer I get to whole foods (nothing with a label) the better I feel.

Will post again soon, and good to see everyone!!

BB2
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