Perseverance without success...

[Jami]

Good Morning ~

I know saying one cannot lose weight on the MWL Program is looked upon with great skepticism.

I am a 66-year-old female. Maintained a slim body by eating a low fat (albeit not healthy) diet and regular aerobic exercise through my 40s and until early 50s.

At 51 was Dx with TCC of Renal Pelvis, had surgery to remove kidney, quit smoking (yes, a runner who smoked) and proceeded to gain weight.

The chemo regimen left me with neuropathy, reactive arthritis and a surfeit of medical complications.

But got myself together. Abandoned low fat and found salvation on Atkins.
An individual with 1 kidney diving into a diet emphasizing animal protein, go figure!

Could not exercise as before but hobbled along.

Was at an acceptable weight and in my early 60s when I developed diverticulosis, experienced a perforated colon, had subsequent emergency colostomy, spent 4 weeks in the hospital and then commenced a year-long pity party awaiting reversal of colostomy.

Gained much weight but soon happened upon the new (?) improved (?) Atkins: The Paleo Diet and dove in. Lost weight.

Years went by. Life happened. Medical problems mounted.

Many things conspired to lead me to Dr. McDougall. That is another story for another time.

Be that as it may ~ I am committed to the low-fat Vegan (yes, I know Dr. McD disavows that term) lifestyle.

Been steadfast for the past 4 months. No hidden oil, no sugar, no processed food. Make my own hummus to avoid tahini, no cereals, no flours, no more than 2 fruits a day. The whole nine yards.

Have lost 2 pounds. And even those fluctuate..

Boo!!

Am not at all interested in abandoning this way of life. My husband (whose parents were early advocates of Nathan Pritikin) and I are devoted to a WFPB diet for the remainder of our lives….We not only feel as if we have come home ~we truly love it.

I am aware an excess 30 pounds is not a tragedy or even noteworthy to many…But I really want them gone.

I feel cumbersome and unattractive. I want to physically reflect all the goodness that this diet embodies.

But with whom to talk? What to do?

Best,

Jami

[Idgie]

Hi, Jami,

First of all, I believe you. I don't think it's helpful when people act like no one's body might keep weight on with this way of eating. All bodies are different, and clearly yours has also been through a lot, so it may be holding onto weight because it's been injured and ill.

Second, I have found it really helped me at first to track every bite for a couple weeks, so I could get a sense of where my calories were coming from and where I could make changes. I use SparkPeople, but I know others use MyFitnessPal or Cronometer. Might be helpful to try that for a bit -- it's not required on the McDougall program, but I did find that for me, it was really helpful.

[Jobet]

Hi Jami,

I'm in a similar boat as you, although I haven't had the medical problems you've gone through.

I'm 71 years young. I did the Paleo thing for a few years, then went totally raw, then tried Dr Fuhrman's plan and Chef AJ's, before stumbling onto Dr McDougall. I started the MWL plan near the end of last December at 180 lbs, 5' 2". Truly a little round thing! In the beginning I "gained" weight. When I did lose a pound, I'd gain back two. It was so frustrating and I wanted to give up, but lo and behold, my son and family started eating basically the McDougall plan and their weight dropped like rocks. I assumed then that my problems had something to do with my age, and the fact I'm not as active as I used to be. Not sure that had anything to do with it at all, but thinking like that was enough to make me hang in there devouring all the information I could on Dr McDougall's website, videos and especially this forum. Thus far I've still lost only right at 16 pounds, in 8 months. Very slow, compared to some others, but I honestly don't care anymore that it's going slow. At least it's going! Eating this way has changed my life in so many good ways. I feel so much better, extreme acid reflux has gone, carpal tunnel is history, and I've lost a lot of inches and now shopping for new clothes. I love the food, the ease of preparation, ease of clean-up, the fact that it's so inexpensive compared to what I was eating before. I'm excited about the long term, and I know without a doubt I'm adding a few extra years to my life. That's super good, since I now have a life again. Like you, I'm in it for the long haul.

I hope if there is an underlying cause that you aren't losing, you will be able to discover what it is. I've read here on the forum that thyroid problems can be a factor in one not losing weight.

Whatever happens, I know it's going to pay off for you in the long run.

[Jami]

Ladies ~

Thank-you for your responses!! I truly appreciate the time and effort…

Hi Idgie ~

You speak the truth I have hidden from for these past months.
Picture me stamping my foot and whining!! I don’t want to count calories!! Further whining ~ “They” said I could eat as much as I wanted…And a pretty good approximation of my long-ago adolescent daughter…”It’s not fair!”

And it is not. But so what?! Ok…I will think about it. I know you are right. So will implement asap. Or as soon as I stop pouting…

xo Jami

Hi Jobet ~

You give me hope!! And persevere, I will.

I am (was) hypothyroid and take Synthroid and Cytomel …so my values are good.
Wish I could blame some (not serious) metabolical issue but think I am out of luck as far as that is concerned.

I too love the food, the cooking…All of it. So will stay the course…

As above...More pouting...I just want some weight loss….

xo Jami

[Idgie]

Jami, you might also find the "Can You Really Eat As Much As You Want?" thread helpful: https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=47637

[Jobet]

Jami,

One of the things I ignored for the first few months of MWL, was eating soup or salad before the rest of my meal. I didn't see any sense in it, frankly, as I "thought" I was consuming about the same amount of food no matter what I ate first. But, one day, due to an I had a light bulb moment and decided to give it a go.

I tried salad first and that didn't change a thing for me. It actually made me hungrier. The only non-fat salad dressing I like is the 3-2-1 (vinegar, mustard, and maple syrup dressing). I expect it was the dressing causing me to be hungrier.

So, then I tried the soup. Bingo! That made all the difference in the world for me. I've been eating it everyday, almost every meal since my discovery, even through these hot summer days. I've found I like the soup at room temperature, so I don't necessarily eat it hot, when the temps are in the 80s and up. I make a huge batch of vegetable soup in my instant pot. I don't add beans or lentils to my soup because I want to stay at or below the recommended 1 cup per day. (I love beans and would eat way too many, so it's basically the only food I measure.) I even eat soup some mornings for breakfast. There have been times when after a couple bowls of soup, I don't want any other food, so save my starch for a later snack. I've been losing steadily since eating soup. Not huge amounts, but at least the scales are finally going down consistently without big ups and downs. For me personally, it seems to be all about calorie density and soup is the key for me to eat what I want and feel satiated for hours.

Here is a post about salads and soups that might be helpful. https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=58274

[Jami]

Good Morning ~

Thank you again for your suggestions and tips.
Read the links you included…Really re-read. I have most videos, articles and information from
Dr. McDougall’s books committed to memory.

Thing is (commence the whine) many of our meals are entirely McD compliant soup,
And although I mentioned “eating as much as I want” I know I cannot consume with abandon.

Being Vegan is not difficult for me. Being a low fat, no oil, no sugar Vegan very doable. I don’t even know
that the MWL regime is a reach.

But with all the above, counting calories and having to make and clean up from an extra course just feels a bridge too far.

So I guess one could conclude I am not serious or do not sincerely want to be slim. That would not be true.

I think being 66, having a number of life challenges AND having to be so, so, so extra persnickety about my diet just feels overwhelming. And not losing weight after following McD rules to the letter is beyond disheartening.

Like Jobet’s family, my husband lost and has maintained on the MWL regime like a champ. And truth be told, he cheats when he is out and about. Not with animal protein but with sweets and fried food.

What point am I making? What question am I asking?

I don’t know…I guess just venting frustration and doing what I abhor: Repeating an inquiry and expecting or wishing for a different and/or magical outcome…

Am a Vegan for life but feel so defeated in terms of weight loss.

All my best,

Jami

[f00die]

some observations of potential issues:
its been only 4 months vs. years of something else
eating hummus but many of our meals are entirely McD compliant soup
feeling the diet is so, so, so extra persnickety (its falling down easy once u get it going)
feeling you have the info committed to memory but feeling that "they said i can eat all i want"(they didnt say that)

maybe try making a SNAP meal exactly as written and compare that to your average meals
and give it more time
plus we dont know your starting weight
if its 130lbs it'll take stricter efforts compared to 180lbs

also, perhaps a consult with Jeff Novick
to ensure your application of the principles & guidelines
is congruent with his

[Jami]

Dear f00die ~

Not about to get into a tiff…

But ~

1.”4 months vs years of something else” is not relevant or pertinent to the subject. I am not speaking of trying to ease symptoms or reverse a disease process…I am talking about losing weight.

2. Chickpeas + lemon juice + garlic (hummus) is compliant.

3. I find the counting calorie, extra course part persnickety NOT the diet which I clearly stated is not difficult or taxing.

4. I was paraphrasing and taking a bit of “poetic” license. Dr. McD implies often if eating from his starch-based, calorie dense, WFPB, MWL template ~ counting calories not the point or necessary

5. Being 130 and wanting to lose 30 pounds might be a bit ridiculous.

6. I am extremely small boned, 5’5” and 160 pounds.

7. Perhaps a SNAP approach is warranted.

8. I would love to consult Jeff Novick. I find his videos and articles very informative and entertaining!!

Thank you for responding….

Best,

Jami

[f00die]

i agree about the tiff, not my intent
i apologise if thats how im coming off

speaking averagely, to go from 160 to 130
means reducing daily maintenance calories by ~300/day
and that is a loss rate of ~.5lbs per week, 2lbs per month
for at least 15 months
with no slipups at all in that time
hummus will derail that (for example)
given that intact garbanzo beans come in at almost 800 cal/pound
they are the highest calories density bean

read thru the journals forum,
there are ppl trying to go from 130 to 100 here
have a look at what they do to get there
not that im recommending that
but just to get an idea

[Jami]

Ohhhh Thank-you, f00die ~

Perhaps I was a bit defensive,

I thought implementing the basic MWL principles would put me in good
(weight loss) stead…

Apparently, being older, female and not significantly overweight (obese) on Dr. McDougall ’s (and Esselstyn, Campbell, Greger, Klaper, Bernard) MWL plan carries the same caveats that other mainstream/Omnivore diets do.

So too bad!!!

And embarrassed I doubted there were people trying to go from 130 to 100.
Of course there are…

I will read the journal.

Certainly many hurdles but will re-double my efforts and continue to hone and polish my approach to weight loss while pursuing a WFPB lifestyle.

Just so trying to carry on month after month doing what I perceived as uber compliant without a tiny, little (weight loss) reward.

Warm regards,

Jami

[f00die]

welcome, join in and participate
the more the merrier
heres one good journal
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=27969

[Lyndzie]

Hi Jami. I’m one of those people just trying to lose 10-15 lbs. i’ve been doing some “experiments” (borrowing the idea from Dr. Lisle) to try some new things. Last week I cut out the nuts, tofu and avocado. This week I made a vegetable soup, and tried meal sequencing. What surprised me is how well the meal sequencing worked! I had a bowl of broccoli, and then a bowl of beans and rice with salsa, and was completely satisfied, whereas before I would have eaten two whole bowls of beans and rice.

I also have a mental list of things I can do to “tighten things up,” where I’m not totally MWL compliant, like limiting my fruit consumption. There is almost always something more that can be done. If the tweaks I’ve already made are not enough, I’ll “experiment” with reducing fruit.

Jeff mentioned recently that some starches are lower calorie density, such as winter squash. Maybe including more hard squash in your regular rotation would nudge the scale in the right direction. Once the weather here starts to cool off I’m looking forward to stuffed acorn squash and roasted butternut squash.

And, this is not part of the guidelines, but I frequently use a 4 cup bowl to eat out of. If the stomach capacity is roughly 4 cups/1 liter, then I can use that bowl and know that it will be enough. Sometimes I want a little more, or a little less, but for the most part it’s just right (kinda like Goldilocks).

Go put on your detective hat and get some experiments going!

[Jami]

Ohhhhh Lyndzie ~

I do not eat nuts or avocado. Do not like tofu…Thank goodness for small favors.

I have been MWL compliant and have been donning a detective hat since week 2 of starting this program.

Granted, I have not sequenced food within a meal, have not weighed, measured or tracked calories.

Trouble now is that I have diet fatigue.

Am disillusioned and a bit angry.

Please, unseen reader, do not be disgruntled that I dare speak heresy. Dr. McDougall himself has even spoken of the necessity of realizing results in order to carry on…That is the purpose for which the MWL Program was designed. In part, to help those of us who are slow, stubborn losers.

* Big sigh*

Thank-you, Lyndzie for your advice. Although I might sound recalcitrant, I do take everything you have written to heart…

Best,

Jami

[Lyndzie]

I can imagine how frustrating that must feel! Jeff Novick does phone calls. He’s the best. I would highly recommend booking a call with him. Best wishes!