August 2018 McDougall Weigh In Thread

[Idgie]

Well, I'm here unless Amy tells me I'm in the wrong place. Thanks!

[JeffN]

It's been pointed out that since I occasionally eat some air-popped popcorn, I'm not really on MWL (which is a reasonable critique, but I don't plan to cut out my weekly bowl of air-popped popcorn), so I wanted to ask if I should stop posting on the weigh-ins. Besides the popcorn, I'm striving for 100% MWL, and it's working, but I don't want to mess anyone up by posting in the wrong place.

You are a member of this board, this forum and this thread.

I (and the other forum members who are participating in this thread), appreciate your efforts and contributions and you are welcome to stay and post.

This forum is for those wanting to learn and follow the MWL program (and/or Mary’s Mini). You seem to understand the MWL guidelines and where your compliance is. If your degree of compliance is working for you, the more power to you. If it isn’t and your progress stops, then you need to increase your compliance and in your case, it seems you will know where to look to fix it.

Now, if you were to redefine MWL and promote non compliant items as compliant and actively promote their use in your posts, you might get a PM from me.

In Health
Jeff

PS, we just finished up a 10-Day Program. I facilitate 2 questions and answer sessions during the program, one with Dr Lim and myself and one with Dr Lisle and myself. We had a question that I asked during both group sessions to make sure everyone could hear the response from Dr Lim, Dr Lisle and myself.

The question was, if I came in here eating a cup of oil a day in my food, understand the goal is no oil and I hear and understand everything you are teaching, but left saying, for right now, I am going to go down from 1 cup a day to to a 1 (or 2) tbsp, would you tell me to stop all oil immediately or tell me “good job.”

All of us said, “good job,” stay the course, and keep making improvements as you can.

Now, if the person promoted oil at all the lectures, meals etc, they would have received a different response from us.

In Health
Jeff

[Idgie]

Thank you, Jeff! I feel like if I can eat an occasional non-MWL (but still McD) food and get 95% of the results I could get without it, I'm cool with that. I even have a back-up plan: if MWL feels to hard, I've given myself permission to go back to plain McD, because that's still 1000 times better than my old diet. But mostly, I've found MWL really easy, and the weight is coming off basically effortlessly.

(The only stuff I'm really missing is bread (for the convenience of toast and sandwiches) and pasta (because, well, I'm Italian), but I want my health more than I want those things, and I LOVE potatoes and brown rice and sweet potatoes, so it's not like I'm being seriously deprived.)

[amandamechele]

Hi Idgie!

Jeff really did say it all, but I wanted to respond too so you know I saw your messages. I feel the same as Jeff and the others who so kindly responded.

We are all here to use the MWL guidelines to the best of our ability and to the extent needed to reach our goals, and hopefully, to have some friendly conversations while helping others at different stages of learning and applying them.

Amy XO

[Mark Cooper]

I think if most of us were PERFECT in our MWL compliance, this thread would be basically unnecessary! It seems to me the purpose of having a support group is just that - support - help when we stumble and struggle. I personally really appreciate everyone who is participating in the group and agree with ALL the above sentiments of support.

[squealcat]

I have just read what Idgie, Jeff, Mark, Amy, and everyone else has said and this has made me feel all the better about this group. I am not at 100% but I constantly strive to be better each day. I see the wisdom in the MWL program and thus keep trying and keep going. I am certainly at a much better place now than a year ago. I feel the positive energy when I read the posts here. We are all human and I know I am not perfect. Let us keep on going and keep on working toward our goals.

-Marilyn (squealcat)

[Idgie]

Hmmm I wonder if dancing is on the approved MWL guidelines for exercise?

Have I mentioned lately how much I LOVE this group?

[f00die]

id say ur undereating
decrease calorie density of meals (not just "foods")
eat when hungry until full/satisfied
eat again when hungry until you feel satisfied (however you define that)
increase starch portions if you are having "too many" meals
this will slow weight loss, but should prevent binges
coz as you can see,
a nice stretch of binging (aka uncontrolled eating of higher-calorie density meals)
can wipe away all progress

make some SNAP meals as written and eat those for a while
you can a lot of SNAP meals without gaining weight
and life is good when one is satisfied with their meals

[amandamechele]

Asking for some input

Scenario:
For days or weeks eating about 1300 calories a day and being satisfied my weight seems to stay about the same.

Then without any noticed change in my eating habits for some unknown reason I have accelerated weight loss for a few days in a row. The recent quick drop was last week I went from 190 on Saturday to 183.75 on Wednesday (6 lbs in 5 days). This made me very hungry and set off a reaction craving binge. I immediately went to all starch meals but that didn’t curb the cravings.

Thursday, I faltered and ate (cookies&milk ~3500 cals) off-program. Friday at weigh-in I was up 4 lbs. Once Saturday (cookies&milk ~3500 cals) then once Sunday (cake&milk ~4000 cals) and today I am up 9 lbs. The irony is the high fat foods did not taste better than the starch/veggies/fruit.

Hopefully I’m back on track.

I’m looking for some info to help me combat this drop and binge trap.

1) What might be causing my weight to drop in spurts?
2) What can I do to get the weight to come off gradually, not in spurts?
3) If you have urges to go off program how long do they last for you?
4) How do you handle really strong long-lasting urges to binge that remain across multiple meals?
5) Since almost all foods have some fat in them and my body has 25 pounds of fat stored then what is it about eating high fat foods that seem to quell the cravings?
6) Do you have any methods to minimize the high fat food binges?
7) HCLF eventually fills all the carb stores in the body. Does this setup a condition where any fat eaten [above the required daily minimum] will get stored?

Any other thoughts are welcome….

Hi Abit

I have no medical background so I am unable to comment on why you are experiencing your weight loss the way that you have. If you have ever attended a 10-day program you can email Dr. Lim or Dr. McDougall with specific medical questions. Dr. McDougall's November 2005 Newsletter provides some information on volume eating: How to Help the Volume Eater: The Person with a Binge Eating Disorder. Another source of information for binging information could be Dr. Lisle’s McDougall webinar lecture on the Cram Circuit. Have you watched this? He explains a possible reason for this type of binging/cramming behaviour and some strategies to overcome it. A home free of tempting foods and a bit of determination to fight the initial cravings is the best course of action. I also found another interview that he did on Binging and Cramming very helpful. Coincidentally he is doing a webinar this Tuesday morning called The Story of Willpower which may be helpful to get you through the cravings phase of this type of overeating.
For understanding and support from others who struggle this way, there is a thread on Binging in this forum, but it is not an endorsed source of evidential information. It's just a bunch of us talking about our personal strategies and experience.
I know I didn't go through and answer your specific questions, but I'm hopeful that some of the links here can help you find the information you need to continue at this. Binge eating is difficult, I know from personal experience. The best way forward is to not reinforce the habit...it does get easier, but how long that takes can be very different for everyone.

Amy XO

[Lyndzie]

Hi Abit! I think we’ve all had a version of this happen to us. I’ll give you my two cents, take what resonates with you and ignore the rest.

When I count calories I end up in trouble because I’m eating to what the app says and not my body. When I eat when hungry until satiated, it works for me. When I calorie count, I’m hungry. If I do calorie count, I use the calories for my goal weight and activity level. For me, it’s 1700. You might just need to eat some more food. Maybe try a few weeks just listening to your body and see what happens.

My cravings are usually for chocolate, and I have a few things I can make that are not MWL compliant but keep me McDougall compliant and prevent me from eating some really bad choices. I’ve not dealt with binge eating, though, so this might not work for everyone.

The pleasure trap is a thing, and can sneak up when you’re not looking. It’s not about what your body “needs” nutritionally, otherwise we’d be craving apples and broccoli. Amy posted excellent links. Dr. Lisle also has a Ted Talk about the Pleasure Trap that I really enjoy. https://youtu.be/jX2btaDOBK8

Sounds like your tastes are adapting in the right direction!

Weight loss sure can bounce around for all sorts of reasons. Did you see the graph Idgie posted? It looks a bit like a mountain range, but you can see there is a definite downward progression. Each day isn’t as important as the overall trend. Don’t miss the forest because of the trees. Also, if you need a new scale, I just got this one and am super impressed.
Digital Body Weight Bathroom Scale... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077H86415?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf

Don’t beat yourself up too much. I’ve had my fair share of epic off-plan transgressions (I’m not safe around imported cheese). Get some sleep and start the next day right. You can totally do this, we’re here for you!

[VegSeekingFit]

It's been pointed out that since I occasionally eat some air-popped popcorn, I'm not really on MWL (which is a reasonable critique, but I don't plan to cut out my weekly bowl of air-popped popcorn), so I wanted to ask if I should stop posting on the weigh-ins. Besides the popcorn, I'm striving for 100% MWL, and it's working, but I don't want to mess anyone up by posting in the wrong place.

Hi Idgie!!

I can't say it better than anyone else has already stated, but so glad to see support for you and I want to add mine. (I love your posts and I admire how you have started!!! Would be sad if you stopped posting for such a reason....)

You have rocked it !! (And I am so excited to see you continue to do so!! )

I think that you know yourself and what it might take to make you successful (like allowing air popped corn because it is your favorite).

I really liked how Jeff Novick stated " If it isn't and your progress stops, then you need to increase your compliance and in your case, it seems you will know where to look to fix it." So, you've got it!! If your weight loss slows, you know what to do...

I think I may have to post in my own journal on this thought sometime soon. As I am also imperfect (like everyone... )--- but looking to achieve 90-95% compliance with MWL and have any MWL outliers be McD compliant.

"Keep away from those who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you believe that you too can become great.”
– Mark Twain

Cheers,
Stephanie

[moonspirit]

Becca - Welcome back. You've gone from pattern destroying yet fun vacation to crazy-busy student and mom. Life doesn't always stop to let us get our ducks in a row but thankfully you have a daughter who wants to help and join in...how awesome is that? I'm so glad you had a wonderful visit with your Dad and completely understand the desire to make him comfortable on his vacation too. I can't wait to hear about how you navigate your new circumstances and find a new balance that includes your school-work. I'm also highly impressed how you continue to prioritize your healthy lifestyle, even with your new responsibilities. Kudos to you. When assignments or tests begin cutting into your prep-work time try to remember that shopping and chopping are just as important as homework ...and way more important than housework . Maybe that's just how I justify my messy house...LOL. Best wishes for week two of back to school.

Thanks for your kind words, Amy. I am indeed enjoying school, and I'm glad to be transitioning out of my job (my replacement starts today!) I'll be training her for a bit and then I'll be done. It took them three months to hire someone, so I am super ready to be done.

My daughter is doing great with the plan. She was really eating a lot of crap before she came out here, so I think it's good for her to ease into it. She's sharply reduced her sugar intake, and we're not eating oil, dairy, meet, or fatty vegetables or nuts/seeds. But she is eating more fruit than is normally allowed on MWL, and we've had ww pasta a couple of times. Reading the conversation started by Idgie on compliance reassures me. My daughter is reporting that she is feeling great and has more energy. She's feeling more positive about it since making dinner for us the other night (with a little help from me on the water-sauteing). She bought a fat-free Asian sauce for the stir-fry she made. These little things are helping her overall compliance. I'm enjoying figuring out how to be flexible.

I personally could probably eat just about the same thing every day. I typically cycle through 3 different soups, and have oatmeal for breakfast every day, veggies and quinoa for lunch, etc. Keeping things simple really helps me stick to the plan. But I also understand that other people have more desire for variety, so I'm adjusting.

This has been a great opportunity for us to further transition from the child-parent relationship to the adult-parent relationship. I'm reminding her that she is completely at choice, that I have no desire to tell her what to do, and that she should just see me as a source of information about the plan we're on, not any sort of enforcer. We have roommate agreements, but she is an adult, and I am here to remind her of that, rather than falling into old patterns. It's a fun challenge, and I'm really enjoying her being here.

[Lyndzie]

Question: is whole wheat pasta MWL approved?

[amandamechele]

Question: is whole wheat pasta MWL approved?

Hi Lindsey,

From Dr. McDougall's MWL book, it says no flour products, however Jeff has a slightly different opinion in that it is reconstituted with water and thus has had its calorie density brought back down.

Some people can really overeat pasta (like me), but if that isn't you then it can be a great part of your plan, especially once you are close to or at your natural body weight. (I never know how to put that...goal weight, best weight, I hope you know what I mean )

Program outlined in the MWL book, page 60.
1. Eliminate All Animal Foods
2. Eliminate All Oils
3. Eliminate All High Fat Plant Foods: Nuts, Nut Butters, Seeds, Seed Butters, Avocados, Coconut, & Olives.
4. Eliminate All Flour Products
5. Eat Whole Grains and Potatoes
6. Eat Legumes
7. Make Green & Yellow Vegetables One-Half to One-Third of your meal
8. Eat Uncooked Foods
9. Restrict Fresh Fruit to No More Than Two Servings a Day, and Avoid Dried Fruit, Fruit Puree, and Fruit Juice
10. Use Simple Sugar Sparingly

[amandamechele]

Doing_Dirt - Hi and welcome!

Becca - Wow, that's awesome. So many good things going on for you and your daughter right now. It's great that she is willing to give this a shot and that you are taking it easy with her transition. Enjoy your new relationship!