still cannot lose weight on Starch Solution

[earthwalker7]

hey all,

I have been at zero-oil starch-based diet for 2 years.
And amazingly I have been *entirely* and 100% unable to lose weight.
Yes, I have hypothyroidism, but that's not a satisfactory reason for the lack of progress, especially when so many other people are making gains and I *am not*.
I'm overweight but not obese, male, 40 year old, moderately active.

I did however in desperation manage to drop 68 lbs by doing a water-only fast (two 2-week fasts, and one 30 day fast).
But once I started eating, the weight started to creep back up.
And doing extended unsupervised water-only fasts is not something I want to have to keep doing.

I practice intermittent fasting now, and eat just lunch and dinner, with the first meal no earlier than 1pm.
That helps slow the weight creeping back up, but does not stop it, and certainly there is no weight loss.

Here's some sample diet logs from this week.
It's not MWL as there's a few fruits in there, but it is SS, as it's zero-oil starch-based.

L: 1 cup white rice, salad (tomato, cucumber, onion), 3 sweet potato
D: 2 cans garbanzo beans, salad (tomato, cucumber, onion)
------------------------------
L: 1 cup oats, 1 cup white rice, salad (tomato, cucumber, onion), 3 sweet potato
snack: 3 green apples
D: 1 cup w. rice, salad (tomato, cucumber, onion)
------------------------------
B: ancient grain salad (1 cup brown rice, qinoa, veggies)
snack: 2 bananas
L: 1 veg burrio bowl
D: 3 serv beans + veggies, soy milk, 6 tomatoes, tomato sauce
------------------------------
L: raw veggie spring role (no oil, just rice paper), veggie pho (mushrooms, veggies)
snack: anicent grains salad (1 cup brown rice, qinoa, veggies), 3 bananas
D: wraps made of 2 cups oatmeal + zuccini + mushroom + totato sauce

[GlennR]

I think dropping the white rice for brown and reducing your bean consumption may be a good place to start.

[earthwalker7]

I think dropping the white rice for brown and reducing your bean consumption may be a good place to start.

The inclusion of just these two items in the diet should not lead to weight gain, especially when others are losing, right?
White rice is not as good as brown, granted. But it does not explain the massive difference in my results from what others are seeing.

Re beans - this is an area where McDougall differs from other plant based MDs. So it's hard to gauge.

[GlennR]

Perhaps you could do a one week test where you drop your bean intake to a cup a day. I'm not sure what size your cans are when you say two cans of garbanzo beans but mine are 19.5 ounces and one can is 641 calories. Anyway, I'm not sure my suggestions will help but it seems worth trying it for a week to see what happens.

[roundcoconut]

Have you watched the full version of Jeff Novick’s calorie density video lately, start to finish?? I would start there, as your very first thing. It is not unreasonable to look to his advice, as he explains things in wonderful detail.

In my own experience, this is not a free-for-all. I like to stay as lean as I can healthfully be, and that means that I eat many portions of vegetables each day, and am mindful to not eat more starch than I can work off in the same day.

I see it as somewhat of a beginner’s mistake to eat like you’re at an all-you-can-eat buffet. To be fair, I too was making exactly this mistake when I was two years into this way of eating, so you are by no means off course! It’s just that when you are not as lean as you wanna be, that you either decide to do what’s advisable to remedy that issue, or you decide that you are not willing to go that far. It’s as simple as that — a choice faces you in this situation!

I am admittedly much, much smaller than you are, and you may not choose to do what I do, but I can tell you that today, just in the way of vegetables, I ate half a head of cauliflower (OK, I am eating it as we speak, but still); and also three sweet bell peppers (yes, this is a bit obnoxious, but I enjoy them); and also a bag of peas. As my fruit, I had two persimmons, and also (oops, I usually don’t go over the two pieces of fruit!) a bag of fruit purchased in the frozen aisle (one pound). Oh god, I also ate some snap peas too. (God, that’s alot.)

And THAT amoung of wonderful fiber content, water content, and nutrients, means that my starch portions don’t have to be that large. With that amount of fruits and vegetables, I could easily get by on one can of beans at each meal, or one can of corn, or 1 cup dry measure of oats. More than that would leave a person stuffed to the gills.

I’m not saying you should eat as much vegetables as I do, but that you DO want to consider diluting out the calorie density of your starches — displacing a cup of starch with a cup of vegetables. That’s how to get your overall calorie density down, and thus get your caloric load down.

Exercise also never hurts.

I’m sorry if we make it seems easy or magical — it’s not. It’s a math equation that’s not terribly difficult, but you do have to play by the rules, and get your math to work TOWARD your preferred body size.

If it makes you feel better, once you adjust your starches downward, and displace with vegetables, you will find yourself liking and enjoying your food just as much. It becomes your new normal, PLUS you like your body and like your success. So, reworking the proportions of your foods becomes painless within a few weeks, while enjoying your body and your success never gets old. I SWEAR that’s been 100% true for me.

Hope that makes tons of sense, and gives you good starting points. But seriously, watch Jeff’s video, because the nature of humans if that if you hear it from someone who has no professional qualifications, you won’t believe me. But once it comes out of Jeff’s mouth, you will be like, “Well that makes perfect sense!”

Good luck!

[CamiJb]

I love IF {fasting} My window is a 16-18 hour fast daily and I have all of my food planned for the day in containers and just eat when I am hungry during my feeding window.. I was having a hard time losing and even gained! So I had to move my nightime stop feed from 7 pm back to 5:30 pm..

Then I had to lower my starches, stop everything processed and add a boatload of green veggies! I added like 6 cups of brussels, string beans {fresh steamed} broccoli, asparagus, lettuce and mushrooms.. The only condiments I use are a light bit of low sodium soy sauce, nutritional yeast and garlic powder.. I try to go with out the spices until the monotony overtakes the I use the spices for a few meals..lol...

Hang in there and keep tweaking!!

[OOnaOwl]

I have struggled to lose even 1 pound on this WOE also, also 40 something person. FINALLY got the scale to move definitively south this week for the first time in over a year or two. How did I do it? Upping the vegetables to majority of food, at least 1/2 the plate/bowl veggies, very little to no legumes, small amount of starch-1/2 or less of plate/bowl-1 or 2 servings of fruit max per day. Similar to the Maximum Weight Loss version of McDougall. I have to eat more frequently which is annoying, but the fat loss is worth it! I am down over 2 pounds, which represents about 1/5 of total weight loss goal! Wishing you luck & health.

[Starchie]

I hope you see this post. Would love to see a recent follow=up and if you have been successful in your weight loss journey. There were a couple of suggestions to encourage the scale to move. It would be interesting to learn if you changed to more non starchy veggies. I just dropped 30 pounds fasting and I'm expecting to continue my weight loss by this lifestyle. It is very frustrating to hear people have been eating this way for two years and not dropped any weight. Two weeks would probably be my trial period, and if nothing is happening, I would need to reassess. Hope you have some good news and wishing you the best!

[earthwalker7]

yeah, I've still not been terribly successful at cracking the code.
Fasting helps, but it's quite difficult on any way of eating.
I upped the veggies, but it's still very difficult.

[Starchie]

Earthwalker...Thanks for your response. Sorry you are still challenged with this lifestyle. I would have stayed raw if I could have a feeling of satiety with that way of life. Unfortunately to get that feeling of fullness, I would have to up the overt fats i.e. nuts, seeds, bread. So I was never able to reach my desired weight. I fasted to clean the palate and decided this would be perfect with the inclusion of starch. Today I had potatoes on the panini, with mushrooms, and spinach. Lunch a raw salad with no oil dressing at Whole Foods, and made rice with nonstarchy veggies. I graph daily body composition information. If I'm not losing weight, I'll have to rethink. But because I'm not eating oil, salt, sugar, meat/dairy, processed foods....I don't see why I wouldn't lose weight and experience ultimate health. I reviewed your sample meals that you posted and it is difficult to understand why you wouldn't be losing weight. Maybe we can support one another and, hopefully, find a solution for our quest. Do you have a lot to lose? Wishing you the best and success in the future.

[lisa1976]

hey all,

I have been at zero-oil starch-based diet for 2 years.
And amazingly I have been *entirely* and 100% unable to lose weight.
Yes, I have hypothyroidism, but that's not a satisfactory reason for the lack of progress, especially when so many other people are making gains and I *am not*.
I'm overweight but not obese, male, 40 year old, moderately active.

I did however in desperation manage to drop 68 lbs by doing a water-only fast (two 2-week fasts, and one 30 day fast).
But once I started eating, the weight started to creep back up.
And doing extended unsupervised water-only fasts is not something I want to have to keep doing.

I practice intermittent fasting now, and eat just lunch and dinner, with the first meal no earlier than 1pm.
That helps slow the weight creeping back up, but does not stop it, and certainly there is no weight loss.

Here's some sample diet logs from this week.
It's not MWL as there's a few fruits in there, but it is SS, as it's zero-oil starch-based.

L: 1 cup white rice, salad (tomato, cucumber, onion), 3 sweet potato
D: 2 cans garbanzo beans, salad (tomato, cucumber, onion)
------------------------------
L: 1 cup oats, 1 cup white rice, salad (tomato, cucumber, onion), 3 sweet potato
snack: 3 green apples
D: 1 cup w. rice, salad (tomato, cucumber, onion)
------------------------------
B: ancient grain salad (1 cup brown rice, qinoa, veggies)
snack: 2 bananas
L: 1 veg burrio bowl
D: 3 serv beans + veggies, soy milk, 6 tomatoes, tomato sauce
------------------------------
L: raw veggie spring role (no oil, just rice paper), veggie pho (mushrooms, veggies)
snack: anicent grains salad (1 cup brown rice, qinoa, veggies), 3 bananas
D: wraps made of 2 cups oatmeal + zuccini + mushroom + totato sauce

IMO you are dismissing the most likely reason you are not losing weight. Hypothyroidism can make it impossible to lose. Are your thyroid levels within normal range? Look into adding a prescription for T3 (cytomel) if they are in normal range but you cannot lose.

[Trish]

Hi..... a returning member who got slippy with the way of eating and regained some weight over the past year, Trish here.

My experience is just what roundcoconut is talking about, I gained weight on the MWL way of eating despite being a runner and could not figure it out.... the MWL portions I follow now are half veggie, half starch... and looking at your first breakfast and the rest of your meals, making this change will make a difference if you are anything at all like me. I make this assumption because I cannot imagine eating a vegetable portion (half) that is the size of a cup of rice and 3 potatoes... maybe you are already doing that, I was not.

I too needed to eat more often, NO problem... just keep it to the half veggies on each meal. Make the salad or cooked veggies ahead of time in a large bowl so when you are ready to eat your starch the veggies are EASY and already done. This made all the difference, for me... however it took eating this way for almost a month (MWL with half veggies) to get a "flow" of weight loss going.

Your starch/veggie portions are perfect... for weight maintenance!

[Soraya]

It sounds great to hear about people loosing so much in such a short time; not me. I am glad, in a way, to know that I am not the only one. It has been a real struggle.

I am in the same boat. I have been on WFPB for over seven years and have gained 20 pounds in the past four years with 30 over. Since February 4th I have restricted the caloric intake to 1200 or less a day. That did the trick. I lost 10 pounds in the first month (some of it water) but nothing in the second month. In the past two weeks I have managed to loose another two pounds.
I am only 5'2" at 138 LB. My goal is to weight 120.

[Debbie]

Here's some sample diet logs from this week.
It's not MWL as there's a few fruits in there, but it is SS, as it's zero-oil starch-based.

FYI, fruits are allowed on MWL, but 2 servings a day.

L: 1 cup white rice, salad (tomato, cucumber, onion), 3 sweet potato
D: 2 cans garbanzo beans, salad (tomato, cucumber, onion)

I want to point out, 2 cans of garbanzo beans is approximately 3 cups of beans. 1 cup cooked garbanzo beans are about 730 calories. So that one dinner is well over 2000 calories for just the beans. Perhaps try lowering your bean amount a little, to about a cup per day, and add more potato, whether white or sweet. They are lower in over all calorie density and aid more in weight loss.

------------------------------
L: 1 cup oats, 1 cup white rice, salad (tomato, cucumber, onion), 3 sweet potato
snack: 3 green apples
D: 1 cup w. rice, salad (tomato, cucumber, onion)
------------------------------
B: ancient grain salad (1 cup brown rice, qinoa, veggies)
snack: 2 bananas
L: 1 veg burrio bowl
D: 3 serv beans + veggies, soy milk, 6 tomatoes, tomato sauce
------------------------------
L: raw veggie spring role (no oil, just rice paper), veggie pho (mushrooms, veggies)
snack: anicent grains salad (1 cup brown rice, qinoa, veggies), 3 bananas
D: wraps made of 2 cups oatmeal + zuccini + mushroom + totato sauce

Above you say a burrito bowl for lunch then 3 servings of beans? Did the burrito bowl have beans also and is the 3 servings a cup each? While beans are great, we eat them a lot too, they seem to be by volume and calories far more than other starches and veggies. Adjust your calorie density some and you should find the results you are looking for. Someone asked if you watched the calorie density video by Jeff Novick MS RD. It really helps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CdwWliv7Hg&t=3217s

You are right that there is not a big difference between white rice and brown rice, but you might find brown rice a little more filling. You definitely have the starch part down pat!! Wanted to add....while we don't count calories here they do still matter and add up to too many if we're not careful.

Good luck in your quest.

[PJK]

Maybe try some other starches, such as potatoes, sweet potatoes and winter squashes.

Your 1 pound of beans plus 1 cup of lentils sounds like too much. Dr. McD. recommends limiting beans to 1 cup / day.

Tennis instructor once told me: Always change a losing strategy, never change a winning strategy. As you say, your strategy isn't working. So why not experiment and try other McDougall-compliant options?