What other things have you learned that helped?

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What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby explore2learn » Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:36 pm

Hi Everyone,

I wanted to learn from other people here what types of things they have learned along the way that have helped them make changes to a healthy way of eating.

The basic information about what to eat and why is pretty well covered by the MWL books and videos, as well as the great Webinars on YouTube by the team. I am so grateful to have learned so much already from the helpful and fun information from Dr. John McDougall, Mary McDougall, Dr. Doug Lisle, and Jeff Novick on their websites, books, DVDs and on YouTube. Also from the many Advanced Study Weekends online and even one I got to go to in person 4 years ago.

I am hoping for material from other sources, but I'd like to stay in the guidelines of MWL if possible. If you can remember the person, book, website, or place you saw or heard the information please include it if you can.

Please don't worry if your posts are long or short, it's hard to condense several years of learning into a few paragraphs lol.

Cheers (PS. in case the code for this ticker breaks, it says 86 pounds down and 139 to go as of 2017-07-01)
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Last edited by explore2learn on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby explore2learn » Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:14 pm

Hi again,

I wanted to post a little about me, and where I am at now. For 20 years I have struggled with trying to follow the McDougall and the MWL plans but I would only be on a few days or weeks before sliding off again. But I always tried, from a little to a lot, to do my best.

In my case I needed to get rid of 225 pounds. I still have a long way to go, but I have kept 60 lbs off over a year and am down 86 lbs so far. I still have at least 139 lbs to go, but I feel like I can get there.

I have another thread in the daily menu thread where I post about working to get rid of my CHF (and chronic asthma, hypertension, diabetes and morbid obesity). It's called Keeping it 500-1000mg sodium so I can breathe :) xCHF viewtopic.php?f=10&t=53686&p=547410#p547211 Spoiler- my asthma doesn't bother me now, the diabetes is gone, the hypertension is much better and almost gone, the obesity is getting better, and the CHF is not bothering me anymore but i will go for a new ECG in 6 months to measure the improvement.

The question that has bothered me personally for the whole time is- "Why is it so hard for me to permanently change my food?” (especially when I know better, especially when it is life or death, especially when eating that old food is making me miserable)

The rest of this post is really long but I tried to cover some of the most important things I learned so far. I feel it was important to share this now because after struggling for 20 years, I feel like many pieces have finally come together in a way that is really reliably consistently working for me. I am no expert except on how I feel, but I have studied and worked on this for a very long time and wanted to share some of what has changed how I see this whole thing. The (Note #) are footnotes for sources and more information.

Some of these might help anyone, some are probably more for people like me that have struggled for a long time and “know better” but still eat (ate) crap. I feel like I am not struggling anymore, like I am finally moving in the right direction.

Number one is the obvious “keep going”. Keep learning, keep trying, keep eating good food, keep working on it. Even when you have trouble. For many people there is no single “golden moment of clarity” where they suddenly realize the true way to stay on it forever and all is solved and easy after that one moment. But keep woking on this and you will make progress, the work is the progress.

Unusual but really important things I learned so far-
1. You can’t only “just say no” to cravings for calorie dense hyper-stimulating “food” (high in sugar-fat-salt) because the most basic ancient part of your brain has stored these “foods” as literally “essential for survival” and will fight you for them with everything it has. Recognize how serious your brain thinks this is, and counter it with “that is old information, and now my survival depends on these healthy foods.” Every time it comes up. It will get easier, but only if you continue to refuse to eat them. Things that don’t fit in your guidelines are “not food“, and now are in the old world of “what you used to eat when you were sick and or fat”. They are not part of your world now.

2. The Habit Loop (Note 1) has three parts, cue, action, and reward. We can change some of the cues by not having crap in the house, and taking different roads home, but the cues to eat those old “foods” are everywhere all the time and your brain will remember the cues and the action and the reward, and your habits can take control of your actions unless you are aware of all 3 parts of the Habit Loop, and take actions to change them. You can change your action and your reward to support healthy results instead of bad ones. Just keep in mind how strong the cues are and why.

3. The social pressure to eat old “foods” is real and biological and can be worked around more easily when you know more about what it is, and why it is so strong. In short- for your survival in the long long ago you had to care what people thought of you because it meant the difference between surviving in the village or being cast out and dying. (Note 2)

4. Friends and loved ones who offer you things high in fat-sugar-salt are reacting to a real biological survival drive in their brains to share rich foods with loved ones. The survival of everyone’s loved ones in ancient days depended on sharing rich calorie dense foods with them. (Note 3) It still is deep in their brains and they probably don’t know it, but they have the urge to share brownies, Alfredo, and basically anything rich and calorie dense with those they care about. That is part of the basis for birthday cake and Thanksgiving, and all sorts of food sharing. Just being prepared for how strong that drive is in the people who are sharing, can help you say no with kindness.

Basic things that are important
1. Attitude for success- keep an escape route open to avoid panic. The fear of “never eating food X ever again” is real, especially to the ancient survival part of your brain that is still convinced that item is essential to survival. As Dr. Doug Lisle says, tell yourself (and others if you want to) that this is an “Experiment” and it “seems to be working for me for now”. Set a time limit for this experiment such as 30 days and give it enough attention to do it, but not so much pressure that you fear failure. Failure actually is always temporary and you can get right back on. The only real failure is to stop or to never try. You will probably find that after 30 days you feel so good and you are willing to renew the experiment for another 30 days.
2. Mistakes are not failure, they are “experience” and if you learn from them they become wisdom.
3. Build a supply of foods you enjoy, can cook or get easily, and can rely on. Start simple and get as creative as you like within your guidelines. It can be quick things out of cans and frozen, or more time consuming recipes if you like cooking. Most people end up with maybe 5 things they like to eat and rotate them. (Note 4)
4. Plan ahead of time for “inflection points” (also Note 1) These are things that stop us or delay us on the road to eating right. They are decision points throughout the day or week that are suddenly stressful or an unexpected delay or change of plans that can drive us to old “foods” for relief. If you notice when you go off track and why, then you can plan ahead of time what you will do when it happens again. Such as “If my train is late, I will eat the extra food I packed for this kind of delay” or “If I am upset about X, then I will have some of my favorite healthy comfort food ready, or go for a walk” or whatever works for you. Thinking about the situation in advance when there is no real stress can help you act the way you want to when it happens for real, instead of only re-acting. The more specific you are in your “what ifs”, the more they will work for you in real life because they will be more real to you.
-5. It is so important to keep reading, watching, and learning. You never know when you will come across something that will change how you see your world, and learn more about why you do what you do
6. When you leave the house bring your own food with you, enough so that if you are gone longer than you think you will still be fine. When you have your own food you are much safer from temptation and peer pressure. That way you are safe and in control of your own food, not at the mercy of restaurants, tiredness, or hunger.

This was one of the most important changes in how I see “food” and “not food”
-Make a clean break from old "foods" that set you off. They chemically alter your brain like heroin, or crack or something, just banish them (but keep in mind that your brain still has stored them as survival necessary so take them that seriously when you say no)

It's almost like fire. You can gradually put the fire out, but you can't keep adding lit matches, not even a few matches, if you want the fire to stay out.

This is why the myth of moderation is so dangerous. Your brain deeply remembers these foods and had pathways ingrained to ensure you will always get them to survive. The more of that old food you have, or the more often you have it, even a little, then the deeper the pathways are created and make it harder to ignore. Dr. Doug Lisle calls these "weeds" because they take root and spread and leave no room for the healthy foods. But I found they are far deeper and more dangerous than weeds. The only cure for many people is total abstinence. Just like you would not suggest that an alcoholic switch from wine to beer or cut down to just one beer a day.

Truly these are just a few things I had found helpful over the 20 years of working on this. I have a long way to go but I am very happy now and making progress. (Note 5)

Cheers


Notes
Note 1-a book called “The Habit Loop” by Charles Duhigg. It’s a great book, all 3 sections are useful.
Note 2- Dr. Doug Lisle has several great videos and YouTube lectures on these (and other) topics. Look for “Getting Along without Going Along”, and “Stepping Stones to Self Esteem” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Nen_MH7lE
Note 3- From an article "The Exercise Paradox" in the Feb. 2017 issue of Scientific American by a Biological Anthropologist named Herman Pontzer. (This article is mainly about fascinating info that exercise does not burn as many calories as we thought, but is still vital for strength flexibility and health, just not for weight loss).The article also says that the sharing of food was vital for human survival back long long ago. So if you wanted your loved ones and even friends to survive, you shared the richest most calorie dense foods with them. If you look at the social pressure to share food in that light, you can see why it is important to them to share with you, and the "why" of it being so deep they don't even realize it. So even if they know you are trying to eat better, they will want to offer it, or be hurt if they don't. You can assure them it looks like great food, and you really appreciate the offer and how kind they were. But you can also say your doctor (Dr. McDougall if you want to be specific lol) has told you to avoid that food so you can't today, or something like that.
Note 4- I have just a few basic ingredients that I mix and match during the week. (for more on what I eat check my post on this board called Keeping it 500-1,000mg Sodium So I Can Breathe xCHF viewtopic.php?f=10&t=53686
Note 5- I am not a doctor, or a medical professional of any kind. I am a student and have done 20 years of research into the topics of nutrition, weight loss, behavior, psychology, anthropology, addiction and habits among other things. I love to learn, and hope someday to be helpful to other people who are having a hard time with eating right and feeling better.

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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby Riva » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:39 pm

This is a terrific post and thank you so much.
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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby Acura » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:13 am

One thing I have learnt is to never underestimate stuff, even trivial stuff. If you really want something then become a student, seeker. That is the synopsis of my 10 year journey after having come across this program.
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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby roundcoconut » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:28 am

If there is one thing (as far as the matter of arriving at a weight you like), it is to Obey Your Calorie Density. Easier said than done, right?

But it really helps identify the "delusional-by-choice" crowd in any plant-based group. Because people who wish to say, "I am eating so well, but my progress has plateaued" -- these people are eating too much of foods that are too calorie dense.

I have noticed -- and I apologize if this is not very inspiring! -- that humans just LIKE foods that are packed with calories. If allowed to choose between dates and cucumbers, most of us would find the dates more gratifying. Potatoes or celery? The potatoes are more gratifying. Almond butter or zucchini? The almond butter is more gratifying.

I could continue the list of things that are plant-based but gratifying -- like hummus. Hummus is ridiculously yummy. Why chew a bunch of chickpeas, when you can eat hummus without even trying.

Bananas are also high on the gratifying list -- who wants a carrot when you can have a banana?

So, it is a trick to begin to acknowledge that the foods you we should eat the most often, are not the ones that are highest in calorie density. (I am only speaking about people who have some tendency toward carrying excess weight, whether that is two pounds of excess weight or two hundred.)

Those of us who like to volume eat, or like to eat several times a day, are probably in a situation where it is MORE important for us to stay away from the most palatable foods in the plant world, or the in the plant cookbooks. People who are on the opposite end of the scale -- people who are extremely active and like to eat small volumes of food each -- are a special exception (they are the unicorns of our world; I'm not always sure they exist although everyone swears they do!) -- and do not have any need to know about calorie density whatsoever.

I would add -- there is a formula, as far as how calorie density interacts with meal frequency and meal volume. When a person does a larger fasting window in each day, then there is more room for higher meal volume, or higher calorie density. When one is eating many times a day, then there is little room for high-volume meals or high-calorie-density components. Etc.

Anyways! That's what I notice.
:)
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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby roundcoconut » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:31 am

explore2learn wrote:It's almost like fire. You can gradually put the fire out, but you can't keep adding lit matches, not even a few matches, if you want the fire to stay out.


YES! Love this. You are so, so right!
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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby roundcoconut » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:36 am

Also:

Healthy behaviors are not a gift -- they are a skill.

They are not inherited. They are not inborn traits. They are things you learn to do.

No one comes out of the womb with a slender physique. Everyone pops out looking like a big ball of baby! :)

Sure, some of us have good role models early on, and some don't see their role models until later.

But no one is born with smart food choices. Unless "boob" is a smart food choice. And then, I guess EVERYONE is born with smart food choices.

Ha! That's my crazy contribution of the day.
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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby explore2learn » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:28 pm

roundcoconut wrote:But it really helps identify the "delusional-by-choice" crowd in any plant-based group. Because people who wish to say, "I am eating so well, but my progress has plateaued" -- these people are eating too much of foods that are too calorie dense.
:)


True, there are a few who know better but don't apply it. Sadly many more folks don't understand or pursue the calorie density far enough to choose the foods that fit their different days and activity levels. They don't apply the guidelines to everything they eat. They don't count oils, or avocados, or nuts and seeds because they are the "healthy fats", or they think they need certain things in them like flax seeds. There is definitely a lot of low quality unreliable conflicting information out there. I'm so glad that Dr. McDougall and team have put out so much real information (carefully researched and scientifically backed)

Speaking of denial, I used to ignore all sorts of guidelines and eat junk and still tell myself that because 2 of 3 meals were "good" that the bad one would "even it out", or "I'd do better tomorrow".

I finally realized "tomorrow", or even "later" don't really exist. "There is no such thing as starting tomorrow. Now is the only moment in time you can take actions. The actions you take now make tomorrow. Everything counts. "

Cheers

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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby explore2learn » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:34 pm

Thank you Riva, that was really kind :)

also thank you Acura
Acura wrote:One thing I have learnt is to never underestimate stuff, even trivial stuff. If you really want something then become a student, seeker. That is the synopsis of my 10 year journey after having come across this program.


I agree it is so important to become almost your own expert on the things that affect you. So you can ask better questions, evaluate the answers better, find better doctors when you do need one (like for an injury or something), get better help, live a better life.

Kind of like one of my favorite sayings "If you don't know your options, you don't have any."

Cheers
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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby judynew » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:38 am

Hi, Explore2learn

Your post is excellent. Thanks so much for sharing all your accumulated wisdom.

I haven't been at this quite as long as your have but I find I'm constantly learning. People closest to me probably think I'm obsessed because I'm always combing the library, the internet, Youtube and whatever else I can find for more information about food and our bodies. I'm just now reading a book that you might find interesting. It's called The end of overeating : taking control of the insatiable North American appetite by David Kessler. He also has another book called Your Food Is Fooling You that is aimed at young people and should be in every school library. It is very accessible, even to people who haven't devoted their lives to researching food :lol:
While he isn't really promoting a McD lifestyle specifically, he does a very good job of explaining our cravings and problems with giving up things we know are bad.

I especially liked the point you raised about how our loved ones feel the need to feed us "bad" food. I always just thought they were trying to kill me :unibrow:
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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby explore2learn » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:43 am

Hi Judynew,

Thanks for your feedback :)

I agree that book is great! It was one of the first I read long ago, and It covers so many aspects of why that kind of "Food" is so pervasive and frankly dangerous to so many people, it hijacks our brains. But ya, it was a really interesting book, thanks for suggesting it. I think i should read it again.

It's great you are always looking out for new sources, information and ideas. That is one of the main things that helped me so much over the years and I am still learning as much as I can.

I am still working on some kid of list to add to here, of books I read that have helped me. I am trying to make the list brief enough and include the highlights of points I found helpful. It is hard sometimes to remember what I learned where lol.

I was glad to learn that part of why people are so invested in you enjoying the rich food they offer you is instinct, and not just justifying their own eating of it, or advertising (remember the slogan "Bake someone happy"?). The funny thing is that I have to stop myself from doing the same thing now. I think when I was struggling so much with eating junk, that I would bring home fast food or "treats" for my family as an excuse to eat some myself, as well as to "make them happy". Cues I saw in daily errands like driving past the bakery on the way to some other place I was going would prompt me to ask them if they wanted one of their favorite donuts, or an ice cream cone from some other fast food place that was 50 miles away (that we did not have in our area) when we were in that area visiting relatives. So may cues that remind me of junk in specific places. The brain really does store all that info, and it can feel like it is fighting you all the time. But now that I know more about why the brain stores that info for survival, I can counter it strongly with the fact that it is "old information" and the new programming is for healthy foods for survival.

So now that they are trying to eat better too, I have to stop myself from mentioning those things as we drive by them. I have to get that additional new programming into my brain, because feeding them junk is terrible for their survival.

Does anyone else notice that you offer junk to their family even though you are trying to eat better yourself?


in case the ticker breaks, as of 4July2017 I am down 88 lbs and have 137 to go
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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby explore2learn » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:52 am

One more silly thing,

I never like to say I have lost weight, that implies I might find it again. lol

I just think of it as getting rid of the weight I don't need.

Cheers

(I write the pounds gone in case the code for this ticker breaks 88 down, 137 to go as of 4July2017)
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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby katmalloy » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:59 am

explore2learn - This is amazing stuff! #4 of your important things is going to be life changing for me. To be able to look at my family as not “pushers” and realize they are actually trying to show love and caring? That will color my feelings and responses to them forever.

I just posted Basic Things #2 on my office door for my employees. Really, your post is gold.
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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby judynew » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:08 am

Hi, Explore2learn

Your remarks about bringing home sweets to your family triggered a memory for me. Before McD, when I was working in a crazy, stressful job and my kids were still living with me, I would frequently stop on my way home from a 12 hour day and pick up a pizza or take them out to eat somewhere. That served the purpose of getting us all fed so that I could feel like a responsible mother but also helped assuage the guilt that was lurking about how little time I had for them and the way my work had taken over my life. I never insisted that they have a really healthy meal because I wanted the little time we had together to be "quality" time, not spent haggling over food choices. (Of course, in those days, I didn't know the meaning of "healthy" so it probably really wasn't worth arguing about.)

Fortunately for me, I had a rude awakening in the form of a heart attack that all the experts told me was probably stress related and I got out of that job and back into my life. Shortly after that, I discovered Dr McD while looking for help with digestive troubles and the world has never been the same. Of course, in hindsight, all that pizza probably contributed to my heart attack but I was within the healthy limits for cholesterol, blood pressure, weight, etc, etc.... I didn't know then that being within normal limits in a society as sick as our's isn't a positive thing :?

As other people have mentioned here, it was quite a while before I could stop wanting to feed my family, especially my little grandson, "treats", even though I know they are so bad for them. It is really quite a huge help to understand why that happens.
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Re: What other things have you learned that helped?

Postby roundcoconut » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:26 am

Total side note, but since you guys mentioned "rewarding" kids with junk food:

My big pet peeve is when people "reward" eating one type of junk food, by giving a kid even MORE junk food.

Like, people seriously "reward" a three-year old for eating two more bites of french fries. They say to him, "If you eat two more bites of your fries, you can have an ice cream cone."

And in what universe is it a good idea to reward a kid for eating french fries, and then give him an ice cream cone? And if the kid finishes his ice cream cone, what're y'gonna give him? A gin-n-tonic?

Good GOD are people crazy! :)

(Had to get that off my chest!)
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