Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby Debbie » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:00 pm

Jeff Novick on how many non starchy veggies is enough! Eating a pound of veggies for breakfast is not being starch centered. Veggies are supposed to be a side dish as per Dr. McDougall. See the links below....

The gist of the McDougall plan is, this is a starch based diet with the addition of fruits and vegetables. Not a veggie based diet with the addition of starch. Starch is where we find satiety.....


Jeff Novick
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=47294

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42701

Dr. M's moment on all or near all veggie diets
https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educ ... able-diet/
"It's the food" It's always been the food.
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby roundcoconut » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:26 pm

Debbie wrote:Eating a pound of veggies for breakfast is not being starch centered.

The gist of the McDougall plan is, this is a starch based diet with the addition of fruits and vegetables. Not a veggie based diet with the addition of starch. Starch is where we find satiety.....


Eating a pound of veggies *with* breakfast, I think, can be very much within the paradigm of healthy eating. I think there are many different versions that can be welcome here. I like to think that no one's going to smite me here for eating too much broccoli, but that no one's going to smite you for how you eat either!

My understanding of what we're doing here is that we're starch-based, by calories. Starch is the biggest contributor of calories to our body's functioning. So, if my salad is visually bigger than my potato, I'm still good. If I talk more vocally about my broccoli than my quinoa (or even love it more <gasp!>), I'm still good.

That's my understanding. I think WFPB has many manifestations for many different people, at many different times of their lives. If I'm pushing my version on others, then I'll always apologize. But if I'm making way for people to see what shifts they may want or need to make -- to find their own peace with food, their own healthiest body, their own way to feel good about how they're eating -- then that's probably a good thing.
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby Jumpstart » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:53 pm

I remember trying the Fuhrman thing with lots of green/yellow and orange veggies at every meal. Dr. McDougall is right, it just doesn't work as a permanent way of eating. If you want to lose a lot of weight fast it's the only way to go. But, that's self defeating since you'll put the weight back on just as fast when the hungers come back. I was eating every couple of hours and on the toilet five to six times a day from the massive amounts of fiber. It seemed like my entire life was eating or pooping, and what's worse is I started losing strength and muscle along with weight which I didn't want to lose. I've never varied more than a couple of pounds my entire life and I certainly didn't want to drop any weight. I guess that's why Dr. Fuhrman recommends the nuts and seeds. It's the only way of getting enough calories to maintain weight. I find high starch meals along with a handful of other veggies the only way I can maintain my weight, strength, muscle mass and sanity. You see great numbers of people on boards whether dedicated to healthy eating or weight loss all trying to drop lots of weight fast. They've been on for years and haven't made much progress to their ultimate goal. It's all because they are trying to drop over two pounds a week instead of two pounds a month. Most would be a lot happier and a lot further along if their targets were a bit more reasonable. Heavy starch and reasonable expectations is really the key to success whether weight loss or health. Dr. McDougall's formula of a starch heavy diet is really the only long term reasonable solution.
Last edited by Jumpstart on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby Wild4Stars » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:56 pm

^ ^ ^ What Jumpstart said !!!

Why take something that's easy and works and turn it into something that's complicated and doesn't?
"If your lifestyle doesn't control your body, your body will eventually control your lifestyle." Ern Baxter
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby roundcoconut » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:07 pm

And one follow-up comment:

I always think it's good if we're respecting the intentions and wishes of the person whose body we're discussing.

Sometimes I hear a person say that they like their body when it's at a lower weight, and people will sometimes rush to say that maybe their body is already at the proper weight. Well-intentioned as that might be, I think it's better to respect their wishes to be at a lower weight, and offer some suggestions how they might do that. (And maybe help them question their wishes, if they think they want to question their wishes.)

Equally as bad, I sometimes hear a person say that they are at such-and-such a weight, and without stating that they wish to be smaller, people tell them to go balls to the wall to achieve a lower weight because it is deemed more "healthy". I mean, if someone wants to become thinner, then great, but not everyone wants to (such as men) or feels comfortable with notions of restriction or deprivation.

So, to tell the original poster to lower the calorie density or her intake seems helpful and appropriate, but it can frighten people into thinking we're too restricting or too starch-phobic as a group. Still, room for many different levels of starch, and many different pathways.
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby Debbie » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:11 pm

When looking at what they do at the 10day programs, yeah they have veggies with meals, some peppers onions etc with hash browns. But Dr. McDougall and Jeff do not want people weighing and measuring.

I wrote this yesterday on a thread about this very subject.

The question about how many non starchy veggies should we eat comes up a lot as I see and has for years. I have personally done just about everything Jeff writes about in this link.... viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42701 ....He really could be talking about me here...well not the book writing part....but the trying various different angles and coming back to starches. For me, when I came to terms there was no magic pill or potion or magic way of eating (like ingesting pounds of veggies a day which isnt sustainable long term) I came back to starches. Back in December, while I didnt talk about it, I lost 6.6 pounds in 2 weeks!! (I did talk about the losing part) Awesome right??? Not so much....I was heavy veg based, choking down a pound of broccoli every morning. I got full fast due to volume but also got hungry fast.....So what did I do? I went off plan and ate and ate and ate....and gained....nearly 10 pounds. sigh....After Christmas I sat down and had a talk with myself...when was I most successful? What was I doing when I only had 12 pounds to my goal weight? What changed? I was most successful after baby number 1 and before baby number 3....When I only had 12 pounds to go, I ate starch and a lot of it. Then I had baby number 3 and had gained about 20lbs....so then started looking for that magic thing to get that weight off fast....5 yrs later I am back to doing what I did years ago, making starch my meal focus. I still have a long way to go...to undo all that damage of trying to find magic, the quick fix, when the magic was here all along....in my potato basket. It was there all along. I still love broccoli, but as Dr. M says, its a side dish. :-D

Yes, one can lose a large amount of weight fast. However, the body and mind cannot be fooled for long. After 2 weeks of eating a lot veggies and losing fast, I was on pace to set a record to lose a lot of weight in 30 days. But hunger won out. Now today, Ive only lost a little over 7 pounds in about 7 weeks, but this is sustainable and I can do this for life. Where will I be in 1 yr from today if I stay on the starch path? Possibly down 50 pounds. Instead of the bouncing all over, getting frustrated and beginning again, which is ironically the title of my journal, and weighing the same or even possibly more come next year.
"It's the food" It's always been the food.
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby Debbie » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:23 pm

From Jeff Novick's fingers to you.


viewtopic.php?p=487575#p487575

"I agree. And it has served us well for many years.

However, it seems like many are caught up in this current trend to eat "x" lbs of veggies a day and "x" lbs for breakfast and "x" pounds before you eat your starch, and making it all seem like it is McDougall and/or MWL approved. So I wanted to give a more detailed look at the numbers and what is actually recommended.

It also puts it in perspective as some misinterpret my 50/50 to mean by calories (which is doesn't) and some misinterpret Dr Mcdougall's comments about how much starch to eat on the regular program and the MWL program.

It is kinda of like the "how many meals a day" issue. Everyone is looking for that little trick that will help their success, wether it is 2 meals, 3 meals, 6 meals, skipping meals, intermittent fasting, etc etc. They "ALL" work in the short term.

Let's fact it, this program may be simple, but doing it in this world with its toxic food environment with little social, personal and environment support is nothing less than "brutal." As a result, people struggle with it and are always looking for the next "trick" that will make this easier for them. And the "pull" of pleasure trap foods, even those often seen as healthy, is powerful.

Dr McDougall always says at the 10-day program that he can get you much better short-term results if he switched up the diet a little, but it would not result in better long-term results and will cause many to fail. He has seen it over and over throughout the years, as have I.

On a similar note, I am working with a friend I have known for 30 years and has done this ever since. In the last year or two, he faced some very tough personal challenges including losing family members. His schedule got way off, he was out of his comfort zones and usual routines. He went and got his labs done and there were some concerns. He said his diet and lifestyle was still 90%. Yet, his weight had slipped up some as had his blood pressure. So, I asked him to identify what, if anything, does he think he could improve upon. What little indiscretions have slipped in and we talked about the things most likely to have an impact. I didn't even need to know what they were as after 30 years, he knew.

Once he identified them, we listed them, and I asked him to do an little experiment, 2 months with no exceptions. None. No matter what. That was 1/22. No weighing, measuring, counting, etc.

We talked this morning and he said his blood pressure is back down with most readings below 120/75 and he has lost 15 lbs. The blood work will be in another week or two and I am sure it will be right back in line.

I have something similar going on with another client who is doing a 3 week experiment and we spoke yesterday and already, vast improvements in their health and, wouldn't you know, they lost the last 10 lbs too.

The program works, as is, with minor modifications when necessary. No weighing, measuring counting required. And as long as you follow the recommendation and guidelines, you can eat until you are comfortable full wherever hungry. And you will have consumed a nutritionally adequate health supporting diet.

The hard part is doing it.

Not just for today, but for this week, and month, and year and once you have done that, then, see if you can get 10 years in.

Re-read my analogy in the, "How Much Kale Does It Really Take To Reach Nutrient Nirvana" to investing, the stock market and always looking for the next miracle stock that will solve all your problems. We are much better of with a simple, well diversified portfolio, savings plan and retirement plan over the long haul.

Oh wait, the new Apple Watch is coming out, maybe Apple... :)

In Health
Jeff"
"It's the food" It's always been the food.
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby frozenveg » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:23 pm

Starchme, I am glad that someone else was a little disturbed by the tone of this post. It bothers me that some who are already at a good weight, but possibly not their ideal weight, should be expressing, in the Maximum Weight Loss thread, a frustration at not being able to lose "those last few pounds." Many times during this thread I wanted to write something like, "You are at a lovely weight. I'd love for you to stop obsessing about your weight and start following the plan! This way of eating is not just about losing weight--it is about your health for the rest of your life. This way of eating can bring you vibrant good health and your body weight will follow."

I posted this is the Star McDougaller forum in response to another question about starch-limiting,
...starch is not the problem. The reason I say that, is that you are focusing in on the starch as what might be the reason you are not losing these few pounds you want to lose, and not even telling us the amounts and kinds of other food you are eating. That leads me to believe that you may not consider starches as "food," but as the thing that must be limited for you to achieve your weight loss goal. That is not the essence of the McDougall plan. Starches are the main dish of the McDougall plan, make no mistake about it. They are not the enemy.


(I see that Debbie has shared quotes from Jeff Novick, too , while I was writing this! Thanks, Debbie!)
5'3", 74 YO. Started Jan. 11, 2010
Starting weight: 222.6
Current weight: 148.2.0


Success Story:
https://www.drmcdougall.com/articles/st ... -rockwell/
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby roundcoconut » Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:29 pm

frozenveg wrote:I am glad that someone else was a little disturbed by the tone of this post. It bothers me that some who are already at a good weight, but possibly not their ideal weight, should be expressing, in the Maximum Weight Loss thread, a frustration at not being able to lose "those last few pounds."


I can see why it might be disturbing to listen to someone who weighs 130 talk about wanting to weight 120. And the desire to go from 130 to 120 can come from a healthy place, or it can come from an unhealthy place.

The desire to reach a particular weight -- when it comes from an unhealthy place -- could be things like: feelings of inadequacy, engaging in a struggle against body, having impossible standards as to what the body should look like, believing that thinner is always better, etc. We really, really don't want to support people in efforts that are based on self-hatred and negative messages we get from society.

On the other hand, the desire to reach a particular weight -- when it comes from a healthy place could be things like: I want the kind of body that suits me best (I just like it at a smaller weight); I like the way my legs look at a smaller weight (and they are my legs, and no one else gets a vote); I want to have a healthy relationship with food (and I don't at 130, because those ten pounds are "i'm-still-binge-eating" pounds). I really, really *do* want to support people in efforts that are positive.

I used this way of eating to get the kind of body and kind of relationship with food that I wanted, and happily, no one said, "That's not a valid reason" or "You don't belong here" or "You should be happy with the weight you're at."

So, if we can use some discernment (and I think we *are* on the same page on this; I don't see anyone getting out of line here, just to be clear) to try to figure where a person is coming from, then I think we can respond to people in the best way!

PS - frozenveg, I loved that comment of yours in the Star McDougall thread. If I could've commented on the thread, I would've already told you so!

PSS - I just want to also say that when you hear someone who is fairly skinny talk about wanting to lose weight, she is often telling you that she has a messed up relationship with food, and that is *really* important. She really does have something that needs fixed, and it may just be body image, but more likely it is a messed up relationship with food, which this way of eating can very much help with, by getting us away from typical binge foods.
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby hfleming » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:15 pm

First off, thank you for everyone's responses.

As a 5'2'' female, at my weight, I actually do carry quite a bit of weight. I have muscles, that I have worked hard for, and am frustrated because of the fat that is on top of them and makes me physically feel uncomfortable in some clothes. I am not an underweight female trying to lose a last "vanity" pound, I am trying to become a healthier person. I really appreciate those of you who have supported this, and understand my frustrations.

I do really enjoy eating this way, and appreciate all of the suggestions. I want to find a way that I can live for the rest of my life, whether or not that is "perfect McDougall" or not. I believe in the science, and am continuing to work on this every day.
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby jhodge » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:48 am

I posted in this thread a week ago and enjoyed reading the opinions of others this morning. I love what Wild4stars said
Starch is the way to go. If you have weight to lose and it's not coming off look at the other foods you are eating. High fat? You HAVE to be 100% oil free. Moderation kills. And moderation will certainly stall weight loss.


Specifically the moderation part. I had mentioned a bit of struggle with getting back down to my more comfortable self. I also have only recently started getting back to focus. That focus being the moderation part and cutting out those comfort foods that were soothing, but oh so addictive and had been tough to cut out. Even this past week I recognized some small things that I had not noticed before and I made changes and I feel SO much better, so you are right in that moderation WILL stall weight loss. I have also been drinking more water and being more conscientious of my salt intake.

To @roundcocunut
I always think it's good if we're respecting the intentions and wishes of the person whose body we're discussing.


I think this was great and even though I am not the op, I do appreciate this. Some will say that I am at a great size already and not to fret when I am not fretting, but just aware of how healthy and strong I felt when (I wont even mention pounds) my other pair of jeans fit me or when my running shorts were not so snug on me. I am excited to feel as physically strong and healthy as I did before my brother died and I succumbed to the pleasure trap (oreos and soda are vegan, ya know? haha). I loved how I could up and run 6 miles with a breeze, do push ups like nobody's business, and digestive wise felt like a well oiled machine. From the outside looking in, it may not seem like much or may seem frivolous but to the person trying to make strides, they know where they have been, their comfort level, their personal potential. To each their own and so long as we are not supporting/feeding negative behavior, it's all good!

@Jumpstart

They've been on for years and haven't made much progress to their ultimate goal. It's all because they are trying to drop over two pounds a week instead of two pounds a month. Most would be a lot happier and a lot further along if their targets were a bit more reasonable. Heavy starch and reasonable expectations is really the key to success whether weight loss or health. Dr. McDougall's formula of a starch heavy diet is really the only long term reasonable solution.


I really like this. As I have said before, I am excited to get to where I was a couple of years ago. With this excitement and me being ready to be there already, also with my fitness goals (can't WAIT to be able to run my 6-8 miles again! running is cheaper than therapy haha) I sometimes lose sight of the "slow and steady wins the race". I know my potential and I know that what I did before worked like a charm, it is easy to get ahead of myself.

"Let's fact it, this program may be simple, but doing it in this world with its toxic food environment with little social, personal and environment support is nothing less than "brutal."
<------ amen

And last but not least to the original poster, @hfleming
I do really enjoy eating this way, and appreciate all of the suggestions. I want to find a way that I can live for the rest of my life, whether or not that is "perfect McDougall" or not. I believe in the science, and am continuing to work on this every day.


You got this! Whatever you chose to do, you know you best. As a fellow shorty, I feel ya.
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby ihartsacto » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:12 am

Hello,
I am also frustrated at how I bloat up and do not feel thin when I am eating on the program but I think I have a good understanding of why it happens. Dr. McDougall mentioned that the cells dehydrate on a low-carb diet which is what many of us, particularly women, have come from. We also have all been used to restricting our salt. I think the combination of the two, higher-salt and carbs, creates the FEEL of being bloated whether we actually are or not. When we get that feeling it is the same as we used to feel after cheating, which may trigger high-fat eating out of discouragement at feeling fat, which actually does frustrate our weight loss progress. Does this pattern sound like it might be what is happening? I think it is in my case anyway.
Best wishes.
Andrea
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby siobhanbmeehan » Thu May 14, 2015 4:21 pm

I hope I am posting this correctly! My name is Siobhan Meehan and I am 19 from Ireland last summer eating many raw till four style (I did eat fish a couple times at night and a tiny bit of dairy) I lost a lot of weight in two weeks my guess is I lost 4 kg going from 53kg to 49kg, I am five foot three. I was delighted with myself but if I am honest I was restricting what i ate when I came home I fully began the raw till four lifestyle trying to eat as much fruit as I could and eating MASSIVE dinners to the point I was extremely bloated and over stuffed everything was grand I had great digestion and lots of energy most of the time however only stepping on the scales recently after switching over to the starch solution I have gained anywhere from 6-10 kg in 9 months!! I don't feel that I have a lot of weight on me but I can definitely notice some especially on my legs and a lot of my clothes either don't fit or are very tight I was very very happy at 49kg but even 53kg I would be happy with now or even just a bit of loss! I am following the starch solution guidelines for about a month

A typical day for me would be
One huge orange
125 grams of oats with water

Lunch a salad and 300-600g of potatos

Dinner lots of veg mainly green and again potatos 300g-600g

I have a snack of an apple too
Although the scales says different I feel I am slimming down slightly but I would like to loose weight quicker but In a healthy way not like my holidays! I excercise atleast three times a week usually four (twice an hour of intense dancing+trx+spin and weights) so far I am loving the starch solution but does anyone have any tips for me in regards to that? Thank you so much If you read through all that!
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby Biggirl53 » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:47 pm

Im also having trouble losing weight. Started the starch solution february 11th 2015. It is now june 27th 2015. I have gained 4 pounds. I follow the starch solution diet. I am 53 years old and 220 lbs I was doing the treadmill faithfully 50 minutes a day but this lst week wasnt feeling so positive after weight gain. I am near menopause could that be my problem.
I would really appreciate some good advice. I feel good eating this way but really frustrated that I cant lose like all the other people.
What is an average amount of starch to eat at meals? HELP PLEASE.......Thank you
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Re: Female Fat Loss-Frustrated!

Postby ickromhout » Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:46 pm

Wild4Stars,
Could you please give u an example from you day (what and how much do you eat)?
I don't losse any weight also but I don't eat a lot, only 600-800 calories per day. I am afraid to gain weight instead of loosing, so I restrict myself. But I am nog hungry. So you eat more than you did before? This would be very helpful.
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