Do I REALLY need to eliminate my drug of choice altogether?

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Do I REALLY need to eliminate my drug of choice altogether?

Postby parksjul » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:26 pm

One of the many reasons I am such a fan of Dr McDougall is because he communicates so well the simplicity of a starch-based diet. He warns against overcomplicating things, i.e. pick those favorite 3-9 meals you can then make over and over; don't obsess about a little sugar or salt to make starch-based eating more palatable; in other words, keep-it-simple. His approach has helped me to lose 75 lbs. with little effort. I’m a 5'6" female, just turned 60, and started at 249 lbs. I love that a life-long struggle has turned into loving what I eat, and knowing I can eat this way for the rest of my life, easily. I have no set number, but assume I have about 30-40 lbs to go to be at an optimally healthy weight. But HERE is where I struggle. I I lost 60 of those lbs., effortlessly, in the first year, 4 yrs ago. For much of the last 3yrs, I’ve lost and gained the same 10 lbs, usually gaining it around the winter holidays, when the dark days, and sugary sweets abound. I really am a sugar addict. My grandparents ran a pie shop, for gosh sakes. Growing up, we ate healthier than most of our neighbors, but dessert has always been a part of our days. That sweet snack at the end of the day was and is a ritual I look forward to, and don’t really want to end (and no, a piece of fruit just does not replace the flour/sugar combo I want and crave). I have heard Dr. McDougall and others (Dr. Goldhamer for one) talk about eliminating flour and sugar for MWL, and especially if you know you are one of those people for whom sugar is very addicting. Like any addict, I’ve wanted to find some way around that (understatement of the year!) I have drastically reduced my consumption of these two things, mostly by having my own rule that the majority of my meals for the week be bread/pasta free (at most 2-3 meals will include bread or pasta) , and that my evening snack, if flour/sugar based, be limited to around 150 calories. In the last few months, I’ve lost an additional 15 lbs. That’s great, but my goal is not to lose weight fast, but to let the weight take care of itself by learning what it takes to continue in good health and in a way I can happily eat for the rest of my life. I just listened to the 3 video series that Susan Peirce Thompson posted about what she calls Bright-Line-Eating. Great free information, which I appreciated very much, and didn’t see in conflict with the MWL plan (she also has a paid program for those who struggle with addiction and want continuing help. I see nothing wrong with charging a fee for expert knowledge and services). I don’t want to boil down her program to soundbites, and don’t know enough about it to do that anyway, but a few of the major things I took away from it are that 1) for those susceptible to food addiction, flour and sugar just have to go (two of the “bright-lines” you just don’t cross), and 2) creating the daily rituals that support eating the way we intend. Most of us are already doing a lot of this, which essentially is having a clear line about what is food for us, and what is not, and taking the time to plan and prepare our environment for success. I’m not writing to ask about her program specifically, but more to ask about what you think about the need to eliminate flour/sugar altogether for those of us who know we are addicts. I’ve eliminated the animal products, added oils, and refined foods. But I have continued using raw sugar, whole-wheat flours, and maple syrup either on the surface of whole foods, or in desserts. I’m aware of the plant-based cooks who eliminate the more refined sugars in desserts with dates, etc., but really, please explain to me how refining fruits and grains in our own blenders at home is so much better than buying the minimally processed sugars and flours from the store. So all this background to ask, 1) do those with a sugar/flour addiction need to eliminate these altogether, or can we have rules we set for ourselves that allow us to enjoy on occasion, and 2) how are ww flours, dates, etc. used by the chefs (Bravo, AJ, Fisher, to name a few) better than the convenience of store-bought sugars? Thanks! - Julie
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Re: Do I REALLY need to eliminate my drug of choice altogeth

Postby JeffN » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:55 pm

parksjul wrote: 2) how are ww flours, dates, etc. used by the chefs (Bravo, AJ, Fisher, to name a few) better than the convenience of store-bought sugars? Thanks! - Julie


This article, may help

A Date With Disaster: The Pleasure Trap of Whole Natural Foods
http://www.jeffnovick.com/RD/Articles/E ... Foods.html

In Health
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Re: Do I REALLY need to eliminate my drug of choice altogeth

Postby parksjul » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:31 pm

Thank you, Jeff. This actually does help quite a bit. We can get so confused by the terminology sometimes. Looking at it as the degree of concentration of fat and sugars, rather than "whole", "natural", "unprocessed". So the more concentrated of each in whatever meal or snack I'm sitting down to eat, the more it will trip that Pleasure Trap for me. So, maybe a baked cut-up peach, apple, or blueberries, with a little whole oats and cinnamon might just be an evening snack I can live with, vs. some of the date/nut/ww flour concoctions. Yes, better than a Snickers, but still what might amount to a trigger for me. I think I can work with this. Thanks, as always, Jeff, for your practical, knowledgeable, do-able advice!
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Re: Do I REALLY need to eliminate my drug of choice altogeth

Postby roundcoconut » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:14 pm

I'm so glad someone enjoyed that woman's strategies as much as I did. She really does hit the nail on the head on a lot of things.

For me, I totally agree with her Bright Lines theory, but moreso in the sense that each person gets to draw their own Bright Lines Which They Will Not Cross, not just assume that the restrictions one person needs are the same restrictions the next person needs. There are some variations among people.

Even though you have addictive patterns with sugary-floury foods, you seem to do OK with a clear food plan that restricts those foods' use. The fact that you've maintained your initial weight loss for several years tells me that your sugar addiction is not spiraling into full-blown mayhem.

Moreso, I sense that you have an ambivalence about the matter, and can't quite decide what you want. Do you want to be free of the cravings cycles of your addiction? Do you want to be healthier and wear a smaller clothing size? Do you want to stay in the comfort zone of where you're at? I don't think there are any right answers.

If you want to be healthier without fully giving up the sugary-floury foods, you are probably capable of deciding to eat them once a week, and later to decide only to eat them once every two weeks. I can't see any reason why you would need to say "Never Again". You've never started a domino effect and gained all the weight back -- you've kept your indulgences within certain bounds.

I would factor in, however: There are some major things to be scared of, health-wise. Eating sugar as a food (which is what you are doing), not as a condiment, leads to health problems. It is much easier to prevent these health problems than to reverse them. And even though Dr McDougall is not afraid of a little sugar, I think your levels are probably a little high, even for his liking. There is an extra burden to the body by making it process and store all this extra sugar-flour nonsense.

Consider whether further restrictions would be workable for you. Your bright lines could be a written plan saying how often, how much, on which days of the month. That takes the guesswork out just as much as saying "Never".

PS - Huge congratulations on the success you've already had! It wouldn't be wrong or immoral of you to decide to plateau where you're at. If you *do* decide to phase out some of the sugary-floury foods in your life, however, we are happy to support that.

Edited to add: Have you thought about the fact your palate will adapt to enjoying tangerines, blueberries, mango, pineapple? I think if you give it a chance, you will have a sweet tooth that deeply enjoys fruit but does not enjoy it desperately, heart-racingly or pathetically.
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Re: Do I REALLY need to eliminate my drug of choice altogeth

Postby roundcoconut » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:32 pm

You know what? I thought about my response, and now I think it's just silly.

It's like a kid telling me that he doesn't wanna give up his pull-ups, and instead of saying, "Let's try this and see if you still miss your pull-ups in a month!", I came back with "How about you wear your pull-ups only once or twice a week for a while?"

I actually have utter confidence that you'd adapt to eating fruit and actually enjoy doing so. Grapes are really sweet and wonderful. Mangos are satisfying, sweet and not at all unlike dessert.

Even baking your fruits (without adding any additional sweeteners) would be preferable to the calorie bombs you're eating. Oats on top of those fruits allows the grain-sweet combo in ways that won't lead to long-term ill health or disability.

It is foolish of me to even suggest that you should keep using pull-ups when you can do so much better for yourself, and be happy you did so! Evict the sugar! I would be so thrilled to see you make the leap!
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Re: Do I REALLY need to eliminate my drug of choice altogeth

Postby parksjul » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:04 pm

Thank you, roundcoconut. I appreciate your response. Both of them. But I think you're right, that sugar on a daily, or even weekly basis, is not doing me any favors. I need to get used to the taste of foods, especially my nightly sweet treat, without the highly concentrated sugars and flours. I definitely think I can find a way. And it's about time that I tackle this hurdle. Better to view the more concentrated foods as very rare treats, and learn to live my day to day life without them. Thanks for the encouragement!
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Re: Do I REALLY need to eliminate my drug of choice altogeth

Postby sjbell » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:48 am

Hi i understand your pain ! I have continued to include chocolate in my diet for the past 2.5 years ( since my son was born) and likely due to this, I have never lost the last 10lb I gained during pregnancy. To be fair I was prob very light pre- pregnancy but I know the chocolate is likely the issue but I haven't yet been willing to part with it. It's terrible to be an addict!
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Re: Do I REALLY need to eliminate my drug of choice altogeth

Postby Jumpstart » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:03 pm

I'm not so sure that giving up more and more non-animal based foods is a good long term sustainable strategy. The more restrictive you make you diet the less likely you'll stay with it for life. The people I've seen attempt this end up binging at some point. Wouldn't it be better to train yourself to limit the quantity instead? View these as treats instead of a meals. In my case I enjoy chocolate. The first piece is wonderful, the 2nd less so and each succeeding piece even less so. I get very little enjoyment past the 3rd piece. I've therefore concluded that there is no point eating beyond number three. It's all about being mindful of not only what your eating, but why you're eating it. I do the same with pasta. I make it a side dish instead of the meal. In that way I'm never in the position to think I'd kill for a piece of chocolate or some pasta. I remember years ago when I tried low carb for a month. After the first week I'd kill for a bread roll. I decided I never wanted to put myself in that position again.
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