Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

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Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby deyang » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:01 pm

I came across some youtube videos by Adreas Moritz (he was a contributor at http://www.ihealthtube.com) about how "The Sun Doesn't Cause Skin Cancer, But Sunscreen Does!", and this was after I had watched some videos by Dr.John McDougall on getting vitamin D directly from the sun instead of pills. So lately I stopped using my sunscreen and am going out when the sun is at its strongest, to get about 15-20 minutes of direct and unfiltered sunlight. After that, if I still must be outdoors, I put on a hat at that point.
Should I stop using sunscreen? Andreas Moritz also said that sunglasses works in the same negative way on our health as sunscreen does, filtering out the necessary sun for our eye health, as well.
Not sure what to do about sunscreen! Hope someone here knows how to handle this.
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby openmind » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:04 pm

Here's my completely uninformed advice:

1. Don't use sunscreen

2. Don't lay out in the middle of the day when the sun is the hottest, each and every day. I would say 11am-3pm it's best to be out of the sun.

But then again, what do I know?
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby Lyndzie » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:06 pm

I follow Dr. McDougall’s recommendations about getting natural sunlight, but also use sunscreen. Usually I go outside for a while, then apply. How long I wait depends on multiple factors - location, time of year, length of exposure, activity, weather, etc. The damaging effects of excess sun exposure isn’t a farce, so I try to balance the two so that I don’t cause unnecessary premature aging yet get the necessary benefits of direct sunlight.

I have young children, and strive to get them outside for 1-3 hours a day, which would be quite a lot of sun beyond what is needed for good health.
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby deyang » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:42 pm

Lyndzie wrote:I follow Dr. McDougall’s recommendations about getting natural sunlight, but also use sunscreen. Usually I go outside for a while, then apply. How long I wait depends on multiple factors - location, time of year, length of exposure, activity, weather, etc. The damaging effects of excess sun exposure isn’t a farce, so I try to balance the two so that I don’t cause unnecessary premature aging yet get the necessary benefits of direct sunlight.

I have young children, and strive to get them outside for 1-3 hours a day, which would be quite a lot of sun beyond what is needed for good health.


Ok, thanks a lot. That makes sense to me, and I did consider that actually - getting the sufficient amount of sun, but then using a hat or sunscreen after that.
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby geo » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:13 pm

I'm fair skinned and burn easily. I also don't like that dark tanned look and the aging effects in can have over the years. So I simply try to get the sun needed to get my vit D as per Dr McDougall and then stay covered the rest of the day...which gets me more sun but slowly. If I know I'm going to be out all day on a beach or something I will use sun screen as well as clothes/hats/umbrellas and such so I don't bake. Its really all about how much sun can you tolerate for your skin type. My mother has had skin cancer several times and its no fun...so I try to only get what I might need.
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby colonyofcells » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:01 pm

Skin color evolved in order to get enough vitamin d from sunshine (and to also avoid too much UV rays). People who moved to the north had to evolve lighter skin in order to get enough vitamin d. People with lighter skin color who move to a place where the right skin color is brown will probably need sunscreen. I am from the philippines where the right skin color is brown and in California, the right skin color is also brown so I probably do not need sunscreen. My ancestors are from south china where the skin color is not really brown but it is probably close enough. In the philippines, my father got darker skin as he got older bec he was outside all the time and the family would joke that he looked like a native. African americans with dark skin will have a harder time getting vitamin d from sunshine if living in america. Our ape ancestors actually had light skin (can compare with chipanzees and bonobos) and once our ancestors moved to the african savanna, our ancestors had to evolve very dark skin to protect themselves from harmful UV rays. The inuit survived by getting vitamin d from seafood bec hard to get vitamin d from sunshine if living near the poles.
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby landog » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:20 am

After being out in the mid-day sun for 15 minutes, I use sunscreen.
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby MINNIE » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:52 am

OP, please, for your own health and safety, get the information you need to make an informed decision!

What other people do is their own business, and I'm not arguing with them.

But this is a serious topic.

Do what you want to do, but I hope you will consider the facts first!

You can check Consumer Reports, and other unbiased scientific resources to learn more about the risks and benefits of sun screen use. I'm suggesting a few resources that you could look at now, (but really a consultation with a dermatologist would give you the best information about your specific skin type and risk level).

Here is one place to start, from the National Institutes of Health:

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientins ... 000378.htm

P.S.

Andreas Moritz also said that sunglasses works in the same negative way on our health as sunscreen does, filtering out the necessary sun for our eye health, as well.


What??? Please ask an ophthamalogist before acting on this!

World Health Organization - information about skin cancer:

http://www.who.int/uv/faq/skincancer/en/index1.html

Melanoma info:

https://www.melanoma.org/understand-mel ... -sunscreen
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby GeoffreyLevens » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:32 pm

There are many completely safe sunscreens available.

https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/browse/bea ... xccWqkh0mo

They also have separate list for "Low SPF Sunscreen".


When I was living in Ecuador I went to a dermatologist for actinic keratosis (sun damage, pre-cancer) on my scalp. I got a several pretty bad sunburns on my head as a teenager surfing and tons more, mild burns. Anyway, talking to her, she told me that a very major part of her income was gringos who'd moved there (high altitude, almost right on equator, sun so bright/hot you feel like you are in a microwave oven) from El Norté and had been living in Ecuador a couple years. They would come in and she would have to remove a bunch of keratosis. Then 6 months or a year later they would be back for more. And again and again.

Sun exposure is very good for you in appropriate doses i.e. early and late in the day for moderate amount of time. The rest of the time, cover up with clothing or safe sunscreen. "Safe" means mineral based and not nano-particles....
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby Lyndzie » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:04 pm

The list of sunscreens from EWG does not test effectiveness and whether it preforms as well as stated. We tried a 50 spf sunscreen based on information from that website and got burned. Consumer Reports tested various sunscreens, and that is how we found the only one that actually protects my little freckled red-head from burning - Coppertone Waterbabies Pure and Simple 50 spf. This is a kid that has to wear a swim shirt in Florida in October because she’ll still burn even with sunscreen.
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby Willijan » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:02 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/opinion/21wang.html
"The Sun Is the Best Optometrist"

https://www.healthline.com/health/depre ... sun-safety
"What Are the Benefits of Sunlight?"

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl ... nshine.htm
Dr. McDougall's May, 2005 newsletter

https://www.allaboutvision.com/cvs/blue-light.htm
"Blue Light: It's Both Bad and Good for You"

Yes, you need sunlight for your body, eyes, and brain. We evolved with sunlight--not with sunscreen.

I sunbathe for 10 to 30 minutes several times a week, as close to noon as I can. I also try to go out in the morning and/or evening, before the UV is so intense, to expose my eyes to bright light.

Whether you use sunscreen or not depends on whether you are exposing yourself to excess sunlight. I try to avoid it, because the chemicals in it are unlikely to be good for you. But if you must be out there too long, it's probably a good thing to use. It depends on one's natural skin color of course. I'm pale.

Suggestion: whenever you have a health question, search this site for what Dr. McDougall says on the subject. Shall I say, he is a knowledgeable person?
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby JeffN » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:51 am

Lyndzie wrote:The list of sunscreens from EWG does not test effectiveness and whether it preforms as well as stated. We tried a 50 spf sunscreen based on information from that website and got burned. Consumer Reports tested various sunscreens, and that is how we found the only one that actually protects my little freckled red-head from burning


Agreed.

The irony of this is that EWG and Consumer Reports came out with their 2018 reports about the same time. EWG does not rate on effectiveness. CR does and its ratings included UVA Protection, UVB (SPF) Protection, Variation from SPF and a few others.

The CR testing included several of the ones EWG recommended.

"In our tests over the years, so-called "natural" or mineral sunscreens—those that contain only titanium dioxide, zinc oxide or both as active ingredients—have tended to perform less well None of the mineral sunscreens in our tests this year did well enough to make our list of recommendations."

The question is, if you spend time in the sun beyond the recommended 10-20 minutes a day, which will be your greater risk, the potential risk of the chemicals in the effective ones, or the potential risk of skin cancer from the ones that don't protect you.

While the answer depends on your situation and how much time you spend out in the sun, where you live, etc, I live in Florida where the sun is very strong. So, from my perspective, the risk of skin cancer is much greater then the risk from the chemicals.

In Health
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby JeffN » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:44 am

https://www.consumerreports.org/sun-pro ... -answered/

“3. Is a Mineral Sunscreen Better Than a Chemical One?

Mineral sunscreens—which typically contain such ingredients as titanium dioxide, zinc oxide, or both—protect against UV rays by deflecting them. (For this reason, they are technically called physical sunscreens.) Chemical sunscreens—which contain such ingredients as avobenzone or oxybenzone—absorb UV light.

In the past six years of sunscreen testing, Consumer Reports hasn’t found a mineral product that offers both top-notch UVA and UVB protection, says Susan Booth, the project leader for our sunscreen testing. So while a mineral sunscreen provides some protection, if you trust your skin to one of these products, you could be getting more UV damage than you think.

CR has found that the SPF value of many sunscreens (both the mineral and chemical kind) in our tests varies from the SPF printed on the package.

For this reason, Consumer Reports recommends choosing a sunscreen that performed well in our ratings. If you can’t find one, choose a broad-spectrum chemical sunscreen with an SPF of 40 or higher. That will give you the best chance of getting at least an SPF 30.”
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby ETeSelle » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:39 pm

JeffN wrote:The question is, if you spend time in the sun beyond the recommended 10-20 minutes a day, which will be your greater risk, the potential risk of the chemicals in the effective ones, or the potential risk of skin cancer from the ones that don't protect you.

While the answer depends on your situation and how much time you spend out in the sun, where you live, etc, I live in Florida where the sun is very strong. So, from my perspective, the risk of skin cancer is much greater then the risk from the chemicals.

Yup. True here in TN as well. I keep my sunscreen in my PFD pocket, and after 15 min of paddling, I apply it. 15 min. at a time is plenty, and the risk of melanoma is real.
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Re: Sunscreen - Use or Ditch?

Postby spinner » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:32 pm

Thanks Jeff for the info from CR. I went to my local Walmart today and got a top rated sunscreen ( Equate sport 50), travel size 1.5 oz for $2.49 and a large bottle 8 oz for $3.98. Several members of my family have had skin cancer and I can burn in 15 min. The dangers are quite real and I'm delighted to get a highly rated brand. I do the "slip, slap, slop" thing (slip on a long sleeved shirt, slap on a hat, and slop on the sunscreen). Thanks again!
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