You need these many cups of veg and fruit every day says Dr

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You need these many cups of veg and fruit every day says Dr

Postby Branson » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:40 am

It seems like because Dr. McDougall has never said a measurement but always says some or a little veggies and isnt even big on fruits, I get all mixed up with Dr. Furhman and now everyone mainstream diet! Even Atkins is using lots of veggies. Go to any diet published and it has lots of fruits and vegetables. I mean other than cabbage and carrots and bananas these foods are really pricey per weight. Im sneaky and use canned greens cheap as can be. Cuz Im scared oh no Ive gotta have greens everyone says so. Dr. Esselstyn KALE KALE ha.

If Dr McDougall would please only say you need to eat this much as a minimum of veggies I would be relieved. :mrgreen:

Instead he says eat to satiety. But there is no such thing with non- starchy veggies.

Please see the need of us worrying fools who are extending ourselves to get many/much variety of fruits and veggies, and not knowing well how little can I get away with and be healthy.

What is little/some for the McDougall diet? And a picture wont do because those enormous amounts of food in pictures in newsletters again give me the idea oh, you need lots and lots and variety at that! :crybaby:

Is the 5 a day a lie? The meme eat your fruit and vegetables overstated?
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Re: You need these many cups of veg and fruit every day says

Postby landog » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:39 am

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Re: You need these many cups of veg and fruit every day says

Postby Lyndzie » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:41 am

What I like most about this way of eating is the flexibility. Make sure your plate is at least half starch, then fill in the rest however you like. Feel free to have a burrito bowl of beans and rice, topped with salsa. Dr. McD talks about his favorite meal of mashed potatoes with gravy and corn. Whole wheat pasta, topped with marinara, with your favorite veg mixed in is perfect.

It can be confusing to read all the different plant based doctors and focus on where they differ. Pick one, try it out for a month, and see if it works for you. I found this diet to be the easiest to follow. If you are worried about hitting all your nutrient goals, track a few days of food in Cronometer and see where you can change.

In the beginning, I found the simplicity of this extremely difficult. When you are given strict portions, it's easy to follow those directions, at least for a short term. But keeping it simple, eating foods you enjoy, and getting enough starch for satiety is really all there is to it.

Check out the forum for What I Eat in a Day for more meal ideas. There is a great monthly thread in the Maximus Weight Loss forum if you're trying to lose weight.
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Re: You need these many cups of veg and fruit every day says

Postby Willijan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:56 pm

I have had similar concerns to yours, but I mostly don't worry about it. When I started the diet, I remember Dr. McDougall writing that his healthy Asian patients in Hawaii ate "rice and a few vegetables." So I believed, and pretty much still do, that you really don't need to worry too much about it. And that is what I think perhaps he was getting at with his quote from his son, "Why don't you tell them to just eat sweet potatoes and broccoli?"
But. . . it depends. For one, for years I ate regular (not sweet) potatoes every day,often 2 or 3 times. So I was getting vitamin C from those. Now I am eating rice twice a day, and few potatoes. Grains don't have vitamin C, so I eat more non-starchy vegetables.
And. . . if you're trying to lose a great deal of weight, it helps to eat lots of non-starchy vegetables (but still base your diet on starches.)
Also, I am not sure we need to be checking whether we get all our nutrients in just the amounts recommended by standard authorities. Do we really need as much calcium as they say? as much iron? I am not sure if this applies to a diet where we've been told we can eat just potatoes for years and be healthy. Or just sweet potatoes and broccoli, for example. But I DON'T KNOW.
It appears we're not going to get any more precise statement on this from Dr. McDougall. Which might tell us something.
So, you'll have to decide for yourself. And of course you can read other experts. I myself am interested in what those other experts, say Jeff Novick, say. But I still rely mainly on Dr. McDougall.
Think of it this way. If you don't worry about it, just eat starches, non-starchy vegetables and fruits in whatever proportions you choose, and take vitamin B-12, you will have increased your chances of being healthy by a huge percent! Think of all those people who are slowly killing themselves with the standard American diet, or with the Atkins diet, for instance. You won't be one of them!
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Re: You need these many cups of veg and fruit every day says

Postby Willijan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:04 pm

Also, for at least 3 years on this diet, I ate very few non-starchy vegetables and even fewer fruits. Most of my vegetables were onions, celery, carrots and canned tomatoes in soups. I rarely ate greens. And I did not develop any health problems.

But I will say, I am now eating greens (broccoli, green beans, asparagus, spinach, zucchini, peas, etc.) every day in amounts of 2 to 4 cups or more, plus several servings of fruit, and I do feel better in some indescribable way.
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Re: You need these many cups of veg and fruit every day says

Postby JeffN » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:24 pm

To clarify, these are the general guidelines...

The McDougall Starch Solution

The Regular Program

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2012nl/feb/excerpt.htm

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The Maximum Weight Loss Program

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This book came out in 1995. He modified it slightly about a decade later, removing the “hasty” approach, and now recommends only up to 50% of the plate be non starchy vegetables, the exact same as my Calorie Density plate.

From the 2005 newsletter
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl ... ushing.htm

“Eat Green and Yellow Vegetables: I suggest about one-third of the meal should be from these low-calorie vegetables for accelerating weight loss. If you are desperate, then you may push that amount to one-half of your plate (measured roughly by your eye).”

In Health
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Re: You need these many cups of veg and fruit every day says

Postby geo » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:34 pm

The McDougall Program is an Ad Libitum Starch Based program. I.e., you eat till your comfortably full of any and all the recommended foods. Essentially, starches, veggies, fruits, and water.

Some foods are restricted a little, like beans to a couple servings and 2-3 pieces of fruit a day, etc...

But the important point is never to be hungry, thus the recommended food amounts are what ever keeps you comfortably full till the next time you eat. The reason this works is because the calorie density of the recommended foods is so low that its nearly impossible to eat too much. The fiber and water and bulk of the whole foods will fill you easily before you over eat.

JeffN's Healthy Plate is a good example to follow if you really need something closer to servings. Just take a plate fill it half full of starches and the other half full of veggies/fruit. Then start the meal with a bowl of soup or salad or both! Follow that with the main plate and then finish that off with a piece of fruit if you want desert. Your drink should be water.

Thats it. eat what you serve yourself. If your still hungry, have another round! Just eat till your comfortably full, NOT STUFFED. Then eat again when your next hungry. There's no time table to follow or certain number of meals to eat a day. You can eat one or two meals if you want or a dozen meals if thats what keeps you comfortably full (satiated). Just don't over eat or stuff yourself.

This is just way so easier than other programs that tell you to eat so much of this and so much of that because those serving sizes are ment for who? a 120 lb woman or a 250 lb man? Theres just no need to go down that road of complexity.

One last thing I would recommend is truly focus on your hunger. Give yourself time to eat (20-30 mins or more) so that your stomach stretch receptors will have time to react to a comfortable full stomach and your brain will tell you thats enough. Eat mindfully in other words and don't just shovel the food in your mouth mindlessly while watching tv :-) Take time to enjoy what your eating and experience the new flavors and textures of the food. (they will be different as your taste buds get back to normal after eating hyper-palatable foods most of your life). Yes the food may seem a little bland at first, but within a couple weeks you'll be back to tasting the real flavor of real food!

Give it a try, you've got nothing to lose (well maybe weight) and everything to gain (your health):nod:
geo

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Re: You need these many cups of veg and fruit every day says

Postby f00die » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:32 pm

the studies ive seen here suggest about a pound of fruit+veg combined per day for max mortality benefits
if youre hedging your bets like that

so for me its;
oats + 1 or 2 fruit (banana, apple, raisins, grapes etc. whatever is cheap atm)
1 cup starch(rice, corn, potatoes, oats etc) + 1 cup veggies (greens, cabbage are my faves, i like the fresh stuff for the crunch) twice
1-2 cups starch as needed to keep my head straight on.
sometimes plain plate of greens, sometimes plain plate of fruits
i eat a lot

been working well. i enjoy eating my meals more than when i was eating steaks and lobster tails with garlic lemon butter, and im more satisfied afterwards, and no heartburn or tasting oily burps

i feel dumb sometimes that it took so long to buy in buy in
but hey, work in progress
what can i say
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