Excess carbs

[vgpedlr]

I had nightmares about that tennis photo.

[GeoffreyLevens]

For instance, DJT should be pretty darn close to obese but it's still OK whenever he's wearing a suit

That certainly is not my impression. I think he looks ginormous in full dress suit attire.

[JeffN]

BMI is only a screening tool and when understood as such and used properly, is of value.

My article on BMI goes into great deal of its proper use and value.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=6916&hilit=BMI

In Health
Jeff

PS I don't know of any credible reliable evidence for the BMI Visual Graph nor do I think the visuals are accurate.

[Willijan]

I had nightmares about that tennis photo.

I'm kind of glad I saw it and kind of horrified. I hope he got a chance to look at it.

[healthyvegan]

when you surpass your caloric needs it doesn't matter if its carbs, protein or fat, it makes sure the fat you did eat stores. so if your TDE was 2000 cals and you ate 2500 with 500 protein, 500 fat and 1500 carbs, which calories were excess? how do you get JUST excess carbs? its a silly question because you can't just have excess of one macro unless you are on an all sugar diet. by eating whole foods starch based your overall caloric density will be less and you will be more likely to eat around your needs and enjoy fat loss since carbs have a very high conversion loss to create fat, so you may have an advantage while meeting your energy needs and losing fat at the same time faster than you replace it.

[roundcoconut]

Commenting on the side tangent re “underweight” and the BMI visual chart: I always kinda roll my eyes at all these people saying they are underweight — like, REALLY???, you have so little body fat that you look like you just rolled outta Auschwitz?

There is a big difference (in my mind, and also with regard to health) between someone who lean and lightly muscled, but has the interstitial body fat that is associated with a well-functioning human; compared to someone who has been starved into poor health.

You don’t have to go far into the past, to come up with pictures of men who are of a very low BMI, but are slim and healthy. I like to look at athletes of the past, simply because that is one place where you can see thin men wearing shorts and tank tops. Look at those pics of Bill Rodgers, or Frank Shorter, or (Steve Prefontaine’s legendary foe) Lasse Viren. They are not men who have caved to (today’s) ideas that what you lack in muscle mass, you should make up for in fat.

Y’know? Because that’s basically what today’s society asks men to do — men who do not have large amounts of lean muscle mass, should gain fat to match the BMI chart — and for what? So that people feel “comfortable” with your appearance. Well, THAT’S freaking stupid!

I will second what Lyndzie said, which is that when I shop vintage clothing, I do not wear a particularly small size despite (GASP!) having a BMI slightly below the 18.5 “cutoff”. I have a vintage ladies jacket that is a size 9, and it fits like a charm — it looks like it’s from the 40s or 50s.

[AlwaysAgnes]

What happens to excess carbs? Some days (often) I'm eating oatmeal and berries, potatoes, rice, corn, barley, quinoa, beans, green and yellow vegetables (some raw) and some fruit, cereal and/or bread all day long. You were right! I love this food! Too much, maybe? I don't count calories or try to keep track. I think I'm eating more carbs than what I burn in a day. I exercise every day. I should be around 80-10-10 on these days. Even with minimal fat and protein coming from the foods I listed above, my weight continues to fluctuate up as well as down. Is it possible to eat too much starch? What happens to excess? Am I experiencing de novo lipogenesis?

You might find this video interesting.
Study: Carb Binges don't cause Weight Gain? | Where do the calories go?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lue1SC3KpXU

[Branson]

Oh my gosh!! Have you seen Hillary Clinton's wide load? Check it out!


Really moderators, you gonna leave mocking the president of the united states, Donald Trump on the lounge forum?

[GeoffreyLevens]

Study: Carb Binges don't cause Weight Gain? | Where do the calories go?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lue1SC3KpXU

Interesting but only 6 subjects. Average sized person can store a total max of about 2000 calories of glycogen. So if the subjects had just run a marathon and bonked at the end so their glycogen stores were nearly 100% used up and they had near perfect conversion from blood glucose to glycogen, it is sort of vaguely plausible. And then there is the fact that all the tiny number of subjects were between 20 and 22 years old. At that age I could eat a dozen donuts before lunch and then a full lunch (I did that once), and pretty much daily 6-8 slices of toast soaked in butter and jam, or a whole package of Hostess Cinnamon Buns toasted and buttered before a full dinner and never gain an ounce.

Yeah, I was dangerous in the kitchen, a teenage metabaloid!

Now, not even close...

[GeoffreyLevens]

Just got this in email blog. Quite relevant...

Why Carb Loading Does Not Work
Excerpt:

We now know that the theory was wrong because your muscles can only store a very limited amount of sugar and all extra carbohydrates are immediately stored as fat. When you load up on refined carbohydrates such as bakery products, pastas and potatoes before a competition, you just become fatter. All the extra fat that forms will cause you to carry extra weight and slow you down during your race. If you already store too much fat, this overloading can make you diabetic or even suffer a heart attack. If you already have blocked arteries leading to your heart, you can kill yourself by loading with sugar or flour for just one meal.

How Carbohydrate Loading Can Harm
When you take in a lot of refined carbohydrates, your blood sugar rises. The first extra sugar is stored in your muscles and liver, but they only hold a meager amount. The liver then converts the extra blood sugar to a fat called triglycerides. A high rise in blood fat can cause clots, so much of the fat is immediately removed from your bloodstream. It is stored in fat cells, which makes you fatter, or in your liver. Fat in your liver drives blood sugar levels even higher. High blood sugar levels can cause inflammation, which can break plaques off from the inner lining of your arteries. This can block blood flow to the heart and cause a heart attack.

[roundcoconut]

This whole thread really gets a response outta me! Some thoughts:

I see a tendency among some in the plant-based movement, to espouse and promote magical thinking. Like, “just eat more and more intact starches and watch the weight fall away”. And I honestly think we do people a massive disservice by acting like there’s a magic beyond the simple math of calorie density.

The simple math of calorie density tells us that when we eat fruits and vegetables and intact starches, then we can get a LOT of bang for our caloric buck, and thus shed some unwanted pounds. This ALREADY is a wonderful selling point, and I wonder why anyone would wish to add to it with lies, lies and more lies?!?

The part where we set ourselves us for being “debunked” is by suggesting that just by eating an oil-free vegan diet (with no regard to the proportions or quantity of foods eaten), we can promise others the weight loss that they want or need.

Because there are so, so many ways of putting together a diet that is higher in calorie density than the one you were eating previously — anyone who goes to town on cashews, tofu, ezekiel bread, dried pineapple, date-based treats — EVEN when these foods are liberally mixed in with intact foods like lentils, sweet potatoes, mangoes and cauliflower — the math can turn out badly for many people. It is VERY possible to achieve a higher caloric load by loading up on food like this, thinking all these foods “don’t count” or are “free”.

We know from the many Star McDougallers who’ve been on these boards over the years, that a very overweight person can maybe eat four cups of food at one sitting, and still lose weight, because going from 350 pounds to 325 pounds is a different problem altogether, compared to someone who is at a 24 BMI but looking to get to 21 BMI for better health and energy.

ANYWAYS! The math of getting some of the burdens off of our heart and cardiovascular system (for people who’ve accummulated excess body fat that puts strain on their system, not to mention their joints) is this:
— by eating water-rich, fiber-rich, nutrient-rich foods, we get full sooner and stay full longer (than we would’ve by eating a chicken and cheese burrito!), and so we don’t need to refuel as much or as soon as we otherwise might’ve
— by using vegetables liberally, along with our starches, we get major bang for the caloric buck, and lower our intake pleasantly.

The idea that going beyond full is fair game, and has no repercussions, is setting people up for failure, who don’t know better. It has been my experience that when I overdo it one day, then I am on the hook to compensate for that on another day, with more exercise and lighter foods.

Anyone else see these themes going through the plant-based community? I sometimes feel I am the only one!

[colonyofcells]

To keep weight off or to avoid gaining back the lost excess weight, some exercise is probably needed since I would guess that our model plantation farmers are probably quite physically active.

[GeoffreyLevens]

I see a tendency among some in the plant-based movement, to espouse and promote magical thinking. Like, “just eat more and more intact starches and watch the weight fall away”. And I honestly think we do people a massive disservice by acting like there’s a magic beyond the simple math of calorie density.

Anyone else see these themes going through the plant-based community? I sometimes feel I am the only one!

Yup. I am only 5'3" and about 110 lbs and I actually do eat 4 cups maybe even 5 at a meal BUT BUT BUT that is easily 2/3 or more vegetables. The one thing I measure is the calorie "denser" starches i.e. beans and grains and limit to one cup per meal. So it comes out to 3-4 cups veg, one cup intact grain or legumes. And I really only eat 2 full meals/day (morning and noon) then a light snack some days but not every day, around 4 or 5. So I still only am consuming 1400-1600 calories approximately. Calorie density indeed rules. The laws of thermodynamics are laws of nature and you can't fool her!

[AlwaysAgnes]

So tell me your opinion about the scientific research relating to exercise/calories that's discussed by Dr. Lisle in the beginning of this video (around 5 minute mark). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McRGtfIcbNQ

[colonyofcells]

I am only 5 foot 3 and 109 lb, and so far, I am able to maintain my bmi 19 without the need to count calories and without any portion control. I do know I am eating 6 servings of boiled steel cut oats per day (I used to eat 8 servings per day but was not able to get to bmi 19).
Dr Lisle has so many youtube videos that I feel overdosed already and probably cannot watch any more for a while. Probably should wait for more large studies before making any conclusion.