Excess carbs

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Excess carbs

Postby Lou » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:44 am

What happens to excess carbs? Some days (often) I'm eating oatmeal and berries, potatoes, rice, corn, barley, quinoa, beans, green and yellow vegetables (some raw) and some fruit, cereal and/or bread all day long. You were right! I love this food! Too much, maybe? I don't count calories or try to keep track. I think I'm eating more carbs than what I burn in a day. I exercise every day. I should be around 80-10-10 on these days. Even with minimal fat and protein coming from the foods I listed above, my weight continues to fluctuate up as well as down. Is it possible to eat too much starch? What happens to excess? Am I experiencing de novo lipogenesis?
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby Lyndzie » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:30 am

If I am understanding you correctly, you are asking what happens when you eat more calories than you use in a day. From what I understand, it's harder to gain weight with a diet focused on complex carbohydrates, but possible. A few factors to consider are how compliant are you and whether MWL, with more vegetables, would help you achieve your goals. Cutting out the more processed foods, like bread and cereal, can help, because they are higher in calorie density. Jeff has a great video on YouTube about calorie density. You should definitely check it out.
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby Lou » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:24 am

Thanks Lyndzie. If I eat 3000 McDougall calories but only burn 2500 per day, what happens to the excess 500? Do they pass undigested or not absorbed? They have to go somewhere. Don't these absorb into the body somewhere, and to what effect?
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby Lyndzie » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:32 am

Maybe this video will have the answer you are looking for: https://youtu.be/aGskfuXOYcI

But, while carbohydrate is not stored as readily as fat, if a person is eating too much, those extra calories do matter. Just check out the Maximum Weight Loss forum for people who have adopted this way of eating but are still struggling with weight. Maybe this would be a good question for Jeff Novick? He has a very thorough understanding of diet and the human body.
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby vgpedlr » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:49 am

Excess calories of any kind will over time be stored as body fat. But the body handles each macroeconomic differently. Fat is stored as body fat immediately since it's ready to go. Protein has a more circuitous route, so some energy is lost along the way. Carbohydrate excess will to a point be lost through thermogenesis, that is extra movement and activity, like fidgeting. Daily weight fluctuations are mostly caused by water weight, not fat. Depending on the timing of your exercise (as well as duration and intensity) and meals, weight can vary due to water loss or gain as you deplete and replenish stored carbohydrate, which includes significant water.

If you are taking in more calories than needed, it is best to review Jeff's info on calorie density. Experiment to find the best way for you to achieve satiety with lower calorie counts.
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby PJK » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:12 am

You can eat as much as you want, but only if you are eating low-calorie-density foods. That's one reason Dr. McDougall prohibits oil - it's 4,000 calories per pound. By comparison, most veggies are under 200 calories per pound. Bread and other highly processed carbs are somewhere in between, which is why you need to limit them if you're eager to lose weight.

Check out Jeff Novick's McDougall discussion board for more details on calorie density:
viewforum.php?f=22
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby roundcoconut » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:29 pm

Well, it seems like we always come back to the same old question, “Can I eat all I want?”, and I think it’s good to look two different places for your answer:

1. What does Jeff Novick say on the matter? And:
2. What did the Star McDougallers do to get to a healthy BMI?

For the first answer, JeffN has the post where he clarifies that the recommendations of the program are to eat when hungry, and stop when comfortably full. Just to be a bit blunt here, it really ISN’T to “eat when you’re in the mood to, and stop when the food isn’t fun anymore”. Believe me, I’ve tried the latter, and it’s not exactly optimal.

There are a number of reasons why the plate test tells you to fill 1/3 to 1/2 of your plate with green and yellow veggies, but one of them is because that kinda makes the plate a “meal” and not just party food. I think that if I were to make a big baking tray of on-plan french fries, and then tell myself that they were free and unlimited, I would work my way through the whole tray through the course of the night. Because fries are yummy, and people like to eat.

The second question, about whether any of the Star McDougallers went wild and crazy eating corn and then beans, and then rice and then sweet potatoes, and found long-term success — I honestly don’t think anyone has that story. The starches are great, but even a very active person does not need plate after plate of intact starches. Especially, no one with excess weight needs loaf after loaf of bread — that would tend to amplify the problem, if anything.

So where do excess calories get stored? On your body. Where else? I wish that I had new laws of thermodynamics, but I don’t.

The good news is that if you are eating whole natural foods, then you get to have a LOT of food (large volume, and massive satiety) before crossing the line into burdening your body with additional stored body fat. But it is an experiment anyone can do — eat twice your normal intake, and watch the scale climb. Happily YOU pull the levers, and can bring your intake in alignment with your activity levels, so it is not a tough issue to pull through! :)
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby haze5736 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:59 am

Lou wrote:What happens to excess carbs? Some days (often) I'm eating oatmeal and berries, potatoes, rice, corn, barley, quinoa, beans, green and yellow vegetables (some raw) and some fruit, cereal and/or bread all day long. You were right! I love this food! Too much, maybe? I don't count calories or try to keep track. I think I'm eating more carbs than what I burn in a day. I exercise every day. I should be around 80-10-10 on these days. Even with minimal fat and protein coming from the foods I listed above, my weight continues to fluctuate up as well as down. Is it possible to eat too much starch? What happens to excess? Am I experiencing de novo lipogenesis?


I am curious about this too. Since starting this way of eating I have been stuffing myself at almost every meal. I never eat till comfortably full. I can't seem to stop myself until I feel stuffed. And I've lost around 20 pounds in just over a year and a half. I'm 6'3" and weigh around 148 pounds now. I eat lots of starches. A lot more starch than green and yellow veggies. Bread, muffins, oatmeal, peanut butter, raisins and walnuts in my 2 cups of cooked oatmeal. Every once in a while I will use Chronometer to track my food and I've always been close to 80-10-10.

I suspect it has to do with everyone being different. I think my body burns the excess food. Even when I was eating SAD I would eat a lot. I still looked skinny at 170 lbs. at 6'3". I have noticed that since starting this WOE I wake up almost every night to use the bathroom. That never happened to me before this WOE. I'm guessing my body is able to burn off the excess rather than gain weight. I have experimented...when I can muster up enough self control to not stuff myself at dinner I will not wake up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom.

I am also concerned about losing any more weight. Part of me fears that if I start eating less than I do now I may lose more weight. I already get a lot of crap for being "too skinny". I think I'm at the very lowest end of the bmi scale.
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby patty » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:55 am

Lou wrote:What happens to excess carbs? Some days (often) I'm eating oatmeal and berries, potatoes, rice, corn, barley, quinoa, beans, green and yellow vegetables (some raw) and some fruit, cereal and/or bread all day long. You were right! I love this food! Too much, maybe? I don't count calories or try to keep track. I think I'm eating more carbs than what I burn in a day. I exercise every day. I should be around 80-10-10 on these days. Even with minimal fat and protein coming from the foods I listed above, my weight continues to fluctuate up as well as down. Is it possible to eat too much starch? What happens to excess? Am I experiencing de novo lipogenesis?


I found Dr. Neal Barnard's video A new approach to diabetes ..at approx 14:10 interesting.... He shares about the fat burners..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLqINF26LSA&t=970s

I found Lindsay's podcasts/transcripts interesting as she shares about intermittent fasting. And again the fat burners:)
https://happyherbivore.com/podcast/inte ... etabolism/
https://happyherbivore.com/podcast/myth ... e-fasting/

I found that I do really well creating a 8 hour intermittent window and in sharing with others that are searching to find something that works, it is great because it is easy to adapt to whatever the person is eating. Hopefully they will transitioning to a starch based lifestyle. What disappears is the mindless, boredom and emotional eating.

In practicing a starch based, no animal or animal products lifestyle is a great social energy share. Dr. McDougall's Digestion Tune-Up is a great gift to bring back the reality, everything is about digestion.

I hope this helps, if not just put it on the shelf:) Aloha, patty
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby colonyofcells » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:48 am

My experience is it is hard to gain weight even if I try to overeat on unrefined staple food like boiled sweet potato (I drink the water used for boiling). I am a volume eater so I have tried eating just 2x a day. I am not happy unless I eat plenty of food in a meal. I do exercise a lot since I do not use chairs anymore.
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby patty » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:27 pm

haze5736 wrote:
Lou wrote:What happens to excess carbs? Some days (often) I'm eating oatmeal and berries, potatoes, rice, corn, barley, quinoa, beans, green and yellow vegetables (some raw) and some fruit, cereal and/or bread all day long. You were right! I love this food! Too much, maybe? I don't count calories or try to keep track. I think I'm eating more carbs than what I burn in a day. I exercise every day. I should be around 80-10-10 on these days. Even with minimal fat and protein coming from the foods I listed above, my weight continues to fluctuate up as well as down. Is it possible to eat too much starch? What happens to excess? Am I experiencing de novo lipogenesis?


I am curious about this too. Since starting this way of eating I have been stuffing myself at almost every meal. I never eat till comfortably full. I can't seem to stop myself until I feel stuffed. And I've lost around 20 pounds in just over a year and a half. I'm 6'3" and weigh around 148 pounds now. I eat lots of starches. A lot more starch than green and yellow veggies. Bread, muffins, oatmeal, peanut butter, raisins and walnuts in my 2 cups of cooked oatmeal. Every once in a while I will use Chronometer to track my food and I've always been close to 80-10-10.

I suspect it has to do with everyone being different. I think my body burns the excess food. Even when I was eating SAD I would eat a lot. I still looked skinny at 170 lbs. at 6'3". I have noticed that since starting this WOE I wake up almost every night to use the bathroom. That never happened to me before this WOE. I'm guessing my body is able to burn off the excess rather than gain weight. I have experimented...when I can muster up enough self control to not stuff myself at dinner I will not wake up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom.

I am also concerned about losing any more weight. Part of me fears that if I start eating less than I do now I may lose more weight. I already get a lot of crap for being "too skinny". I think I'm at the very lowest end of the bmi scale.


I would suggest for getting up in the middle of the night might have something to do with the timing of your last meal. And I found I with salt, it worked for me to add a small amount of salt to my cooked meals. Dr. Kappler's video helped me..... as my thinking is all or nothing:) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvlaQJI ... e=youtu.be

I found Lindsay Nixton podcast about intermittent fasting.. where she mentions the starvation mode interesting.
https://happyherbivore.com/podcast/myth ... e-fasting/

In essence she shares if there is a calorie defect you will continue to lose weight.

Interesting... I know for myself as Dr. McDougall says the body's biological dollar is fat/oil, and the good news is the famine isn't coming. I get the first part, but I have a hard time believing the second part. I bet you get the second part really easy. I work as a home health aide, and I had a 96 year old Client. She would make herself eat her lunch when I was there. Then we would pack her food to be assessable to her bed when I wasn't. She wasn't able to get out of bed by herself without help as this time in her life. Out all the Clients I have worked with she was the only one I ever saw make herself eat. Her thinking was excellent, just her body's strength began to shut down. It is just a thought. I have a feeling you intuitively know your body's energy expenditure and just have to tweak. We all have the same fears about famine.. just in a different light.

Aloha, patty
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby bbq » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:28 pm

haze5736 wrote:And I've lost around 20 pounds in just over a year and a half. I'm 6'3" and weigh around 148 pounds now.
haze5736 wrote:I am also concerned about losing any more weight. Part of me fears that if I start eating less than I do now I may lose more weight. I already get a lot of crap for being "too skinny". I think I'm at the very lowest end of the bmi scale.
haze5736 wrote:Even when I was eating SAD I would eat a lot. I still looked skinny at 170 lbs. at 6'3".

When the majority of the people around us would look chubby or something, that's precisely why we might appear to be "too skinny" even though the perception is quite different from the reality:

https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statistics/overweight-obesity wrote:More than 2 in 3 adults were considered to be overweight or have obesity.

6'3" @ 148 lbs would be equal to 18.5 BMI:

https://www.dollartimes.com/calculate/bmi/75/148

And then this is what we're getting from NIH:

Image

Now let's put things into perspective:

Image

Image

Image

It all depends on who we're listening to. That "BMI Visual Graph" above would claim that anything under 20 BMI would be considered underweight. And then we're getting anything under 18.5 BMI from NIH instead.

Mine should be 19 or so right now since that's what I was getting from my weigh-in 2 weeks ago. That's actually achieved after consuming plenty of organic tofu and organic soy milk on a daily basis in order to raise my BMI from 18.5 to 19.

My doctor was still complaining about that and she urged me to reach at least 20 BMI even though I really don't have to. It's quite understandable when she's looking after quite a bit of heavy patients these days.

Basically I just boosted the number of calories by mixing some organic soy products with my rice and beans. Tofu, soy cream, soy milk, or maybe a little bit of miso since that's pretty high in sodium. Now I'm switching to raisins with some chia seeds and let's see how it goes. It kinda felt like eating desserts since those seeds absorbed the sweetness from dried fruits after I soaked everything overnight.
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby colonyofcells » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:00 pm

For asians, normal bmi is probably around 18 to 22. I heard people from India should be extra careful and stay closer to bmi 19.
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby Lyndzie » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:22 pm

BBQ - I really like that BMI visual graph. I’ve thought that someone should make it with actual people, since it’s so normal to see people outside of the healthy range. What healthy actually looks like, you know?
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby bbq » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:23 pm

Lyndzie - it's still possible to hide the weight by wearing something that could help someone to look better.

For instance, DJT should be pretty darn close to obese but it's still OK whenever he's wearing a suit:

Image

That's why it's so funny to see stuff like this:

Image

I've got no comments whatsoever:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/06/28/why-donald-trumps-diet-is-bad-for-americas-health/

Image

Image
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