Excess carbs

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

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Re: Excess carbs

Postby AlwaysAgnes » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:29 pm

colonyofcells wrote:I am only 5 foot 3 and 109 lb, and so far, I am able to maintain my bmi 19 without the need to count calories and without any portion control. I do know I am eating 6 servings of boiled steel cut oats per day (I used to eat 8 servings per day but was not able to get to bmi 19).
Dr Lisle has so many youtube videos that I feel overdosed already and probably cannot watch any more for a while. Probably should wait for more large studies before making any conclusion.


Nobody asked you to watch the entire video. Whatever. You do you.
You don't have to wait to be happy.
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby roundcoconut » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:49 pm

Yeah, that’s the thing — I am 100% on board with Jeff Novick’s article on “Breaking News!” Most “breaking news” is just entertainment, distraction, or static.

Here we are, and we have decades and decades of GOOD science establishing that people who are given too little food, in a controlled environment, ultimately lose weight. The opposite is also true — animals that are given too much food (like a fois gras duck), invariably gain weight and become heavy. These are established principles that aren’t going to overturned anytime soon. The body of science does not get overturned in a day!

We DO live in the best laboratory there is, and it is not hard at all to notice that when I eat double portions, my weight steadily climbs. Even though I may like to eat twice as much as I currrently eat, my BODY certainly never got the memo not to store excess calories for future use. My body is still on board with those old tired ideas about overconsumption leading to bigger body size.

The good news is, as long as we are armed with accurate info, we can act accordingly. NOT treat ourselves like a fois gras duck. We don’t stuff ourselves, because it doesn’t lead to the results we like for ourselves.

Of course, everyone’s gotta start somewhere, and someone at the beginning stages of getting their health together may very well start from a place of stuffing themselves full of food they don’t need, and eating beyond the point of full. But ideally, that can be a stage, and not become a (faulty) belief system about food.

Those are my thoughts, and I think most of that can be verified through experience, without resorting to experts at all. :)
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby Lou » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:59 am

Thanks all, especially those on topic. If only 15 potatoes a day are eaten, like the Aussie dude, that's 2505 cals. 2220 carb + 258 protein + 27 fat. If only 2000 calories are burned, 3 grams of fat store, but where do the excess carbs go?
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby GeoffreyLevens » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:16 am

Lou wrote: but where do the excess carbs go?

Only two possibilities, burned or stored. If you can think of a 3rd one, please post it!
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby JeffN » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:17 am

GeoffreyLevens wrote:
Lou wrote: but where do the excess carbs go?

Only two possibilities, burned or stored. If you can think of a 3rd one, please post it!


A combo of both. :)

In Health
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby Pumpkin Pete » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:58 pm

In his book 'Big Fat Myths' Ruben Meerman explains when you lose weight where the fat goes.
I found the book to be an interesting read.
The link below is a blog post on the subject;
https://rubenmeerman.com/2017/01/12/whe ... energy-go/
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby healthyvegan » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:15 am

Lou, we are using fat & sugar throughout the day. I have read its about 50/50 for our energy split over the day. We know conversion of carbs to stored fat is very inefficient, 30% energy loss at least, so if you redo your math above and

1000 carbs 1000 fat burned

2505 eaten

505 * 70% = 353 potential storage

1000 fat burned, 27 consumed, 353 potentially stored.

so you get a potential negative fat balance of

1000-370 = 630 cals of fat lost. over a week that is a pound plus of liberated fat.

look up calculus of calories, its far more complex (whole page of calculus)
mrmrsvegan.com free whole starch low fat cookbook #wslf
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby roundcoconut » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:55 am

Ultimately, I see it is somewhat misleading, to talk about how our bodies find it “inefficient” to convert excess starches to fat. It makes it sound as though you’re going to get a free pass!

I mean, when someone says that, I picture my body being like, “Hey, I’m not going to write you up this time, but just so you know, you WERE going over the limit.” In reality, I have not yet in my entire lifetime gotten a “free pass” for eating too many starches. Every single time I go overboard, my body records that and I register a higher scale weight. The body’s math is pretty consistent.

One thing about how we have made our doctors and experts into gods, is that for some reason, this makes us believe that the guys standing authroitatively at podiums, have dominion over the body — as though they can tell the body what it is, and what it does. This is not true! The men at the podiums declaring themselves experts actually have zero authority over the body. If Albert Einstein says that zebras are pink, does that make zebras pink? Of course not!

Our bodies tell US what is true — not the reverse. We cannot petition to a higher court!

It is helpful when people come to these boards noticing that their bodies are telling them they are overburdening themselves with food, and now they just need to figure out a way to use calorie density and whole foods, to lighten their caloric load use up old body fat stores. It is less helpful when people come here and wish to prove their body wrong! (Ha! Well, it is human nature to do this, but it STILL won’t work.)

I don’t know — it is as though we have to divest from this notion that as long as we overeat on potatoes, we will be given a free pass. It only leads to disappointment, y’know!
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby colonyofcells » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:49 am

Since mass energy cannot be created or destroyed, I would guess that excess carbs will go somewhere. People who are not good in absorbing food probably have an advantage in maintaining weight. Our ancestors had a hard time getting enough calories every day so there was probably a survival advantage for people who were very efficient in converting excess carbs (also excess fat and excess protein) to fat for future use to survive famines.
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby Willijan » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:41 pm

Pumpkin Pete wrote:In his book 'Big Fat Myths' Ruben Meerman explains when you lose weight where the fat goes.
I found the book to be an interesting read.
The link below is a blog post on the subject;
https://rubenmeerman.com/2017/01/12/whe ... energy-go/


This is a very interesting and helpful post. Thinking about turning my thermostat down!

However, he doesn't take into account lack of absorption in the intestine. So, calories in/calories out doesn't appear to be strictly true.
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby colonyofcells » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:00 pm

In california, I am able live without using the gas heater for the whole year so I hope that helps me burn more calories to generate body heat. I just sleep with blankets when it is cold at night rather than rely on a heater.
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby JeffN » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:20 pm

>>we are using fat & sugar throughout the day. I have read its about 50/50 for our energy split over the day.

That is at rest.

As activity goes up, the ratio shifts to higher amounts of carbs and less fat. So, the split for the day depends on the amount of activity and on the intensity of the activity the person had through the day. Which of course, may change day to day.

>>We know conversion of carbs to stored fat is very inefficient, 30% energy loss at least

Fat is the most efficient and protein is the least efficient as we have virtually no storage system for protein, can store some carbs as glycogen and an almost unlimited storage system for fat. Often you will hear about 3-5% for fat, 15-20% for carb and about 25-30% for protein but there are no exact standardized/static numbers. This is why high protein diets often claim they have a metabolic advantage.

But again, all of this depends on many factors (i.e, whether the person is in a fed, feasting or fasting state, the degree and type of processing of the food, etc) that are not picked up in short term feeding experiments, which is why they are misleading.

The human body and metabolism are not static systems.

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Re: Excess carbs

Postby veg tom » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:50 pm

colonyofcells wrote:In california, I am able live without using the gas heater for the whole year so I hope that helps me burn more calories to generate body heat. I just sleep with blankets when it is cold at night rather than rely on a heater.

In Michigan I would freeze to death plus it would make woman very unhappy. :lol:
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby Pumpkin Pete » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:58 pm

Willijan wrote:
Pumpkin Pete wrote:In his book 'Big Fat Myths' Ruben Meerman explains when you lose weight where the fat goes.
I found the book to be an interesting read.
The link below is a blog post on the subject;
https://rubenmeerman.com/2017/01/12/whe ... energy-go/


This is a very interesting and helpful post. Thinking about turning my thermostat down!

However, he doesn't take into account lack of absorption in the intestine. So, calories in/calories out doesn't appear to be strictly true.


I generally take calories as a guide. It is acknowledged in some circles that the less processed a food the less energy is extracted from it. Consequently a whole food plant with the fibre intact may result in less energy begin extracted from such foods than calorie tables indicate - sometimes significantly.
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Re: Excess carbs

Postby colonyofcells » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:02 pm

I heard less calories are absorbed from raw foods such as raw sweet potato which can be eaten like raw carrots.
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