Whats your opinion on this?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIJ8JG7HvQM

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I have just seen a comment from connor hope:

"Thanks so much for this great follow up and for mentioning part of my youtube comment as a question. The only problem is that there is an abundance of evidence conflicting with her statements around diet, from doctors such as Neal Bernard, Michael Klapper, Michael Greger, Caldwell Esselstein, Garth Davis and many more. All of these doctors recommend a whole-foods plant-based diet, and have had amazing results with patients. For example, Garth Davis used to treat his patients with the ketogenic diet, and saw good results at first, but then noticed relapses with patients. He now uses a WFPB diet to treat his patients.

I really appreciate these videos, but I just don't understand how such intelligent and caring doctors can come to such opposite opinions. For example, documentaries such as 'What the Health' highlights a lot of evidence against meat consumption, while Sarah promotes meat consumption.

Evidence that intra-myocellular lipids (fat) can cause insulin resistance, and that meat also spikes insulin too, leaves me confused at how meat can be considered healthy.

I have severe CFS now, and had to drop out of university because of it. I tried going into ketosis following Sarah's advice, but had to stop after a few days when my vision was becoming blurry and I could barely walk due to weakness and chest pains. I am so frustrated, constantly in pain and don't know where to turn, because everyone is citing completely conflicting evidence.

What we need is for keto doctors and plant-based doctors to bury the hatchet and just talk for once, to iron out issues and actually come to a united conclusion on which diet is most effective for long term health.

Thanks again for the video though "

Interesting about Garth Davis. I did not know that.

[Ern2Win]

What we need is for keto doctors and plant-based doctors to bury the hatchet and just talk for once, to iron out issues and actually come to a united conclusion on which diet is most effective for long term health.

Not going to happen. What you have to understand is that the low carb, high fat (LCHF) proponents are ideologues who have no interest in the available true science. They use only questionable studies financed by the meat and dairy industries designed to get the results they desire. The preponderance of evidence already exists that shows that a whole food, plant-based diet is the best approach for the prevention and reversal of chronic disease, longevity and quality of life. Not only does science show this, but just observation of populations supports this. The Blue Zones examines areas in the world with the greatest number of centenarians. They eat predominately plant-based diets with meat eaten only occasionally for special occasions and festivals. The China Study clearly demonstrated from an epidemiological approach that the less meat eaten, the lower incidence of cancers and chronic disease.

The conclusion you seek already exists. The plant-based doctors are on the correct side of science and eventually the perils of eating meat will be recognized, just as the perils of smoking were. That is unless we destroy the planet first by attempting to feed our over populated earth with meat.

[colonyofcells]

There were paleo diets but paleo keto diets probably never existed in history.

[Ern2Win]

True Paleo diets had a low percentage of meat....nothing like the 55% meat advocated by so-called Paleos today.

[Empty]

What we need is for keto doctors and plant-based doctors to bury the hatchet and just talk for once, to iron out issues and actually come to a united conclusion on which diet is most effective for long term health.

Not going to happen. What you have to understand is that the low carb, high fat (LCHF) proponents are ideologues who have no interest in the available true science. They use only questionable studies financed by the meat and dairy industries designed to get the results they desire. The preponderance of evidence already exists that shows that a whole food, plant-based diet is the best approach for the prevention and reversal of chronic disease, longevity and quality of life. Not only does science show this, but just observation of populations supports this. The Blue Zones examines areas in the world with the greatest number of centenarians. They eat predominately plant-based diets with meat eaten only occasionally for special occasions and festivals. The China Study clearly demonstrated from an epidemiological approach that the less meat eaten, the lower incidence of cancers and chronic disease.

The conclusion you seek already exists. The plant-based doctors are on the correct side of science and eventually the perils of eating meat will be recognized, just as the perils of smoking were. That is unless we destroy the planet first by attempting to feed our over populated earth with meat.

I empathise with Connor at how frustrating it is to be reading "The Nourishing Lard" cures all versus gives you a heart attack.

"The conclusion you seek already exists. The plant-based doctors are on the correct side of science" - I agree with this however it is perplexing that athletes can live and perform on a ketogenic diet. It would be nicer if it were more clear cut.

http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Stone_Age_Di ... uld_follow

This is the diet she follows. Bacon and Eggs and fried tomato for breakfast etc.

One thing in her favour is she has not gotten fat! She has made the connection with Dairy though and excludes it...

[viv]

Why are we even discussing this person? Here is one of her gems.

"Initially be careful with root vegetables such as potato and parsnip, which are relatively high in carbohydrate."

This goes agains everything we have learned on the McDougall Diet. For newcomers who come to this website who are desperate for answers and are confused with a lifetime of mixed messages this will only serve to create more confusion.

Viv

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Working my way through these studies talked about here re: elite athletes doing better on a ketogenic diet

http://fellrnr.com/wiki/The_Science_of_ ... c_Exercise
http://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-scien ... ree-graphs


I think viv since the internet is littered with ketogenic diet talk, there is little chance that this thread would confuse a newcomer. Low carb people will be carbophobic!

However I am looking for knowledgeable input and more clarity for those of us with CFS = sorry to irk you

[Willijan]

Working my way through these studies talked about here re: elite athletes doing better on a ketogenic diet

http://fellrnr.com/wiki/The_Science_of_ ... c_Exercise
http://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-scien ... ree-graphs


I think viv since the internet is littered with ketogenic diet talk, there is little chance that this thread would confuse a newcomer. Low carb people will be carbophobic!

However I am looking for knowledgeable input and more clarity for those of us with CFS = sorry to irk you

If you are looking for knowledgeable input, my opinion is you should read or reread the writings of T. Colin Campbell, Dean Ornish, Caldwell Esselstyn, John McDougall, and then, whoever you think might make sense from those advocating other diets. This is what I did before going on this diet permanently.

To me, reading the above listed individuals makes the truth obvious, based on the variety of types of evidence they provide. And of course there are others who provide additional evidence for a high carb/low fat/ whole foods diet. You read, and then you decide, as an individual for yourself.

I sympathize with the problem of having chronic fatigue syndrome. I don't know whether this diet "cures" it or not. I myself have a severe medical problem that is not improved by this diet. But who would expect diet to fix everything? Although it is beneficial for an incredibly large number of problems.

[f1jim]

For newbies, there will ALWAYS be articles professing some or all aspects of the Whole Foods, plant based diet is dangerous or sub optimal. This will be true 5, 10 50 years from now. We live in a world where every viewpoint on every subject has the opportunity to voice their opinions for all to hear. Obviously, this is both good and bad. Better to have those freedoms than the alternative.
For those that have been following our dietary advice all we can do is shake our heads and go on living healthy. Go on being the best possible example for others to follow. And giving those that espouse incorrect information their space while optimizing our own health.
I like to focus on the positive and share examples of the power behind healthy eating. It's no longer worth my time fighting every naysayer. Life is too short to live in a constant fight or in bad health. The burden of proof is on those attempting to convince us their way is better.
f1jim

[vgpedlr]

Working my way through these studies talked about here re: elite athletes doing better on a ketogenic diet

http://fellrnr.com/wiki/The_Science_of_ ... c_Exercise
http://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-scien ... ree-graphs


I think viv since the internet is littered with ketogenic diet talk, there is little chance that this thread would confuse a newcomer. Low carb people will be carbophobic!

However I am looking for knowledgeable input and more clarity for those of us with CFS = sorry to irk you

Don't have any experience so can't really comment on CFS. If it was me, I follow this diet and work with an OMD.

As for LCHF/Keto diets, they don't really apply here. This forum is to support those who are implementing the Mcdougall Program or something similar. The professional opinions are clear that such a diet will deliver optimum health.

As for athletes, what diet they eat is irrelevant here, where long term health is the goal. What diet any athlete follows that allows them to succeed in the short term is not as important as long term health. Athletes at all levels follow every diet under the sun. What works for a few athletes with a significant training volume does not necessarily apply to average people looking to avoid chronic disease. Fitness and health are related, but they are not the same thing. An athlete can be "fit" enough to lift a certain weight, or cover a certain distance in a certain time, without being healthy. Likewise, you can be in excellent health without being particularly "fit." As others have posted, this diet is carefully considered, researched, referenced, and documented. Thousands of years and billions of people form a huge sample size and long term experiment that shows the efficacy of this diet in promoting health.

I know of NO long term health outcome studies for LC/Keto diets.

I am familiar with the work of Phinney/Volek and other LC athletes. I've read their studies, listened to their interviews, and there is nothing that convinces me their recommendations will promote long term health. That some athletes find short term performance benefit does not impress me.

In the end, you have to make the call about which diet will benefit you the most.

[Empty]

Hi all,

Thanks to all the contributions so far, it means a lot.

http://masteringdiabetes.mindfuldiabeti ... 20%2C+2017


I think I have missed this live webinar which looks like it was tailor made to answer some of my questions. If anyone knows how I can view it I would be grateful...

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Wait - I just remembered I am 8 hours ahead - I should be able to join live at 1am tonight

[Empty]

Working my way through these studies talked about here re: elite athletes doing better on a ketogenic diet

http://fellrnr.com/wiki/The_Science_of_ ... c_Exercise
http://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-scien ... ree-graphs


I think viv since the internet is littered with ketogenic diet talk, there is little chance that this thread would confuse a newcomer. Low carb people will be carbophobic!

However I am looking for knowledgeable input and more clarity for those of us with CFS = sorry to irk you

If you are looking for knowledgeable input, my opinion is you should read or reread the writings of T. Colin Campbell, Dean Ornish, Caldwell Esselstyn, John McDougall, and then, whoever you think might make sense from those advocating other diets. This is what I did before going on this diet permanently.

To me, reading the above listed individuals makes the truth obvious, based on the variety of types of evidence they provide. And of course there are others who provide additional evidence for a high carb/low fat/ whole foods diet. You read, and then you decide, as an individual for yourself.

I sympathize with the problem of having chronic fatigue syndrome. I don't know whether this diet "cures" it or not. I myself have a severe medical problem that is not improved by this diet. But who would expect diet to fix everything? Although it is beneficial for an incredibly large number of problems.

I tend to feel there should be a cure through diet, herbs or possibly going raw if needed. I feel my cfs has been perpetuated by an untreated virus causing auto-immune issues and so over the next year anti-viral herbs will also be used.

Thanks for your sympathies. What makes it worse is that this disease has been targeted by the paleo/ketogenic movement. So as well as dealing with recovering, there is medical pressure to fill up on corned beef, bacon eggs etc.