What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

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What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby I ♡ Fava Beans » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:03 am

Can I vent for a minute? Oh and can I say hell on this board? :)

A friend had a lung removed three weeks ago because the doctor found a tumor which turned out to be malignant once they went in to operate. So the whole lobe had to be removed instead of just the tumor. She's been a heavy smoker for decades. One would think THIS would be the wake-up call that would scare her into quitting smoking immediately if not sooner? But Noooooooooooooo! Why would losing a lung be reason enough to quit? :roll:

I went to visit her yesterday and she was puffing away on a cigarette! When I asked why in hell she was smoking, she matter-of-fact said, like it's no big deal, that she HAD given up cigarettes after the surgery (she still smoked leading up to it after she found out she had a tumor in her lung) for an e-cig but her e-cig broke and until she could get to the store to buy a new one, "smoking a few real ones won't hurt." :shock: :shock: :shock: ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

Okay I'll calm down now.

I do understand that smoking cigarettes can be as addictive as smoking crack for some people. I get it. I don't expect it to be easy. HOWEVER, and please correct me if I'm wrong, one would think that being diagnosed with lung cancer and losing one of your lungs would scare you into quitting at least in the short-term? I was almost having a panic attack scared for her while she sat there calm as can be without a care in the world inhaling and exhaling that smoke. I'm not even sure smoking e-cigs is something a person who just lost a lung to cancer should be doing. I told her as much but obviously she's going to do what she wants to do and I can't do anything about it.

I left thinking, if people refuse to give up smoking while parts of their vital organs are being chopped off because of it, how on earth are we going to convince people to, as I'm doing, at least TRY to change their diet? I have shared with my friend all I know about the preventative and healing benefits of a whole foods plant-based diet but what are the chances that she's going to make a major change in what she eats if she's still smoking after what she just went through? The surgery and recovery has not been easy for her. And when I suggested she should try this way of eating, she responded, "Oh I do eat vegetables and fruits," completely missing the point as she reached for another cigarette and insisted she can't quit smoking and that she's not smoking very much anymore anyway. I said, "Yes you can. Just stop putting cigarettes in your mouth." She put another cigarette in her mouth. :|

End of rant.
IT'S NOT A DIET
IT'S CALLED EATING HEALTHY
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby roundcoconut » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:50 am

I often feel that way when I watch how people spend money.

Generally, people who spend money foolishly when they have enough to "get away with it", will continue to spend money foolishly when they no longer have enough to do so, and begin to experience difficulties from their financial situation.

From time to time, I meet people who are in debt, but drive a newer model car, or purchase take-out food from restaurants. I don't get them.

Generally people do foolish things at first because they think they're getting away with it. Then, they do foolish things because their situation is at a point where a few small changes won't heal it. So, first it's too early to change, and then it's too late to change. In other words, they are unwilling to consider change in any situation.

People are like that with health. Her lungs were serving her fine at first, so no need to change. Now, one lung is gone, and no amount of quitting cigs will bring that back.

See how people lie to themselves? But they experience their own consequences, and those outcomes are purely their own. They are in complete denial though, you are right!
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby GrannyB » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:08 am

This type of mentality and behavior affects ALL the rest of us because we all end up PAYING for their expensive medical treatments.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby patty » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:14 am

In Hawaii they are trying to get assisted suicide passed, where the doctor can just prescribe a pill. Dr. Fuhrman shares in "The End of Diabetes" prescription pads are permission pads. It is like we are all watching the Stanley Milgram experiment/where we have given our blind obligation to authority to doctors. Maybe the fact that it does emotionally/financially effect all of us will wake people up. To help the shift to happen, it is important to remember I am you... eat and spend smart. We can.

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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby Yomom » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:25 pm

I hear you, and empathize deeply. I am very sorry about your friend's illness and resistance to making healthy choices.
My mother was a defiant smoker for 43 years, until she was diagnosed with throat cancer. For example, Mom would smoke between courses at meals, and would blow smoke at those who disapproved. Car rides meant we kids were trapped in the back seat of a smoke-filled car (windows up lest her hair become mussed).
My mother smoked right up until the morning of her throat tumor surgery, when she applied her first nicotine patch. A bit over one year later, when she had entered hospice care, Mom told my very young children that smoking was not worth it.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby viv » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:51 pm

Sorry that you have to watch your friend killing herself and there is absolutely nothing you can do. She wants to smoke more than she wants to live.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby patty » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:17 pm

As long as she is smoking/eating/whatever her gateway drug is she has no free will. Free will is only a gift when you give it back.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/alc ... frogs.html

Three frogs

My sponsor shared this with me the other day. I've never heard it before. He said it's a "classic" AA parable.

Three frogs are sitting on a log. One decides to jump off. How many are left?

If you're thinking there are two frogs left on the log you're wrong. There are still three frogs. One only made the decision to jump. A decision without action is nothing.


Aloha, patty
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby petmomful » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:18 pm

I know this is and old thread but I wonder this all the time. I recently spoke with a young woman at a party. She works for a lung specialist and told me about all the horrible things she sees at work, people who can't breath, and need lung transplants. She told me all this while she sat there smoking. I was dumbfounded. :-(
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby donaldpetemc » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:54 pm

The reason these people don't quit is because it is HARD to quit. At least, for some people it is very hard. I smoked for 8 years, more than a pack a day. Eight years is not nearly the 40 or 50 years some people have racked up, but it was a deeply ingrained habit for me and I think I probably consider quitting smoking 49 years ago the hardest thing and the thing I'm proudest of accomplishing in my life. And I have other things to be proud of -- two children born and educated, surviving a beloved spouse's death, raising those two children alone, an ongoing physical ailment which limits my participation in life, taking care alone of two elderly parents with dementia, finding and marrying a second spouse (not as easy as you might think...took me 16 years :) ), but quitting smoking was THE HARDEST. I am sorry about your friend, but I understand it's just too much for her right now.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby roundcoconut » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:12 pm

I sometimes think it can be helpful to remember that addiction is addiction. Addiction is when you reach for a certain subtance and a certain behavior because you like that behavior on some level or because you chose that behavior on some level. And an addict generally or rationalizes much of the harm they cause themselves in continuing to submit to their addiction.

I sometimes hear people "I am an addict BECAUSE...", and I actually think this is phony logic. Like, when someone is being raised in a difficult household, or has a difficult time with school or with life, well, you can easily see why a kid in those circumstances would turn to something foolish (turn to food, turn to alcohol, turn to anorexia, turn to stealing) in order to escape their situation or help them feel better.

But the falsehood seems to be that as grown-ups we have other options, we have alternatives, we have better knowledge of the harm we take on when we go along with our addiction. We cannot blame the original situation for when we continue to submit to addiction when other options are available (to someone who wants to make change a priority, at least.)

People who are addicted to SAD don't seem to be very different from people who addictively turn to alcohol to feel better. Or cigarettes, for that matter.

It is really comforting to point the finger at people who have addictions that manifest differently from our own. It is also really comforting to point the finger at people who have our same addictions (to calorie rich and processed foods), but have let their addictions get out of hand much worse than our own.

I tend to feel we are more alike than different!

When I personally was young, I did not have the creativity or the disposition to turn to stealing, to anorexia or to promiscuous sex. I turned to oreos or whatever, but the home wasn't too big of a booby-trap, so I did not become the out-of-control food addict that some people became. But once I got out of that "trapped" situation (because when you're a kid, you ARE trapped in your parents' home and you ARE powerless to change your parents or the home environment) to a pretty great extent, you can choose new options.

As an adult, there's absolutely no reason to eat out of frustration. There's no need to keep ANY oreos in the house. If I want to live somewhere different, or work somewhere different, my life is within my power to change -- no need to turn to food. But food addictions aren't easy to break, and we are given crappy information about how to break bad patterns.

Well, that's my commentary! Y'know. I hope someone can find something interesting in there! As usual, I'm all over the place! :)
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby patty » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:46 pm

donaldpetemc wrote:The reason these people don't quit is because it is HARD to quit. At least, for some people it is very hard. I smoked for 8 years, more than a pack a day. Eight years is not nearly the 40 or 50 years some people have racked up, but it was a deeply ingrained habit for me and I think I probably consider quitting smoking 49 years ago the hardest thing and the thing I'm proudest of accomplishing in my life. And I have other things to be proud of -- two children born and educated, surviving a beloved spouse's death, raising those two children alone, an ongoing physical ailment which limits my participation in life, taking care alone of two elderly parents with dementia, finding and marrying a second spouse (not as easy as you might think...took me 16 years :) ), but quitting smoking was THE HARDEST. I am sorry about your friend, but I understand it's just too much for her right now.


Yes, it is important not to compare but to identify. In AA they have a saying some people stay sick to teach you how to get well as some people get well to teach you how to get well. That is why the recovery stories are about how it was and how it is now through experience, strength and hope. Who would we be without our story?

Aloha, patty
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby katgirl55 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:08 pm

This thread is so important and reading it was eye opening. The nature of addiction in its many forms will be a topic always relevant in our modern times.

I watched a show on PBS about medical examiners in New York during Prohibition. Even when alcoholics knew the wood alcohol would blind and kill them, they kept drinking it. It seems like for many people, if it does not kill them immediately they will not stop.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby I ♡ Fava Beans » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:48 am

donaldpetemc wrote:The reason these people don't quit is because it is HARD to quit. At least, for some people it is very hard. I smoked for 8 years, more than a pack a day. Eight years is not nearly the 40 or 50 years some people have racked up, but it was a deeply ingrained habit for me and I think I probably consider quitting smoking 49 years ago the hardest thing and the thing I'm proudest of accomplishing in my life. And I have other things to be proud of -- two children born and educated, surviving a beloved spouse's death, raising those two children alone, an ongoing physical ailment which limits my participation in life, taking care alone of two elderly parents with dementia, finding and marrying a second spouse (not as easy as you might think...took me 16 years :) ), but quitting smoking was THE HARDEST. I am sorry about your friend, but I understand it's just too much for her right now.

Yes absolutely it is hard to quit. If it was easy, it wouldn't be an addiction. I understand that. My best friend was a serious drug addict who almost died more than once and finally went to rehab, more than once because he kept relapsing as most addicts do until they don't anymore, and it was the most difficult thing to watch, I can't imagine how much harder it was to go through. He has been completely clean and sober for a decade now, thank God. So I do sincerely have an understanding and compassion for anyone who is addicted to anything. Having said that, I will say to you what I said to my friend when he resisted going to rehab, and then each time he relapsed, and that is, even though quitting is damn HARD, if someone put a gun to your head when you were about to, in this situation, put a cigarette in your mouth, and if they said, "If you're going to light that I'm going to shoot you," would you be able to stop yourself from lighting it?" Some people may say no, and mean it. Okay, then I would ask, "What about if someone were to hold a gun to your child's head (or whoever you love most) and if you ever lit another cigarette they were going to kill your child, would you be able to quit?" The answer would be HELL YES! In spite of how hard it would be.

Point is, it's not that smokers or whatever you're addicted to, CAN'T quit, it's that they don't want to go through that uncomfortable (hard as hell, sick as hell in some cases) period of detox that's necessary in order to reach full recovery. Nobody wants to suffer emotionally, nobody wants to be sick physically. Many people won't give up coffee because they don't want to put up with headaches for a few days.

I would think that being diagnosed with lung cancer is the same as someone putting a gun to your head and then losing a lung is like someone else putting another gun to your child's or grandchild's head. My friend is in her late 50s and not only does she still have one child at home, she is also a grandmother. And as much as I know (and I really do!) how incredibly difficult and physically and psychologically uncomfortable it is to quit, if she doesn't, then as much as I love her because she is a good friend, she is just plain selfish at this point as far as I'm concerned. And that's not being judgmental - it's true. If she doesn't care about herself, she should at least care about the child who is still dependent on her and her grandchildren who would be devastated if she died and probably traumatized if they had to see her die a slow painful death, not being able to breathe, choking slowly to death, because grandma would not give up her beloved cigarettes. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I feel.
IT'S NOT A DIET
IT'S CALLED EATING HEALTHY
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby I ♡ Fava Beans » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:53 am

katgirl55 wrote:I watched a show on PBS about medical examiners in New York during Prohibition. Even when alcoholics knew the wood alcohol would blind and kill them, they kept drinking it. It seems like for many people, if it does not kill them immediately they will not stop.

I saw that too! You're right, if they don't drop dead immediately, they convince themselves that they can still drink/smoke/use/whatever and somehow still be okay. But then again many of us do that with food too, don't we?
IT'S NOT A DIET
IT'S CALLED EATING HEALTHY
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby I ♡ Fava Beans » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:58 am

I just want to say that while I'm not going to respond to each post individually, I have read every one and I appreciate all the replies. You all make excellent points. Thank you.

Update: My friend got a new e-cig so she's back on that. So I guess that's a good thing? I don't really understand e-cigs so I have no clue if they're a whole lot better than real cigarettes.
IT'S NOT A DIET
IT'S CALLED EATING HEALTHY
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