Weight loss "treatment"

[StarchHEFP]

I would love for people to watch this video with me, and answer this question "What's wrong with this picture?"
Where do I even begin? Let's not attack the doctor herself, keep it clean and focus on the process not the person. I'm sure she is doing what she feels is the best for the patient.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6knMvA6Efz0

[mountain]

The first thing I noticed is that she herself is not a healthy weight.....and when I see a heavy/overweight doctor....I for sure
won't take weight loss advice from her/him and I lose interest very quickly.

[MINNIE]

The first red flag I noticed was the cabinet full of prepared synthetic "diet" products. Then there was no mention of what specific actual foods should or shouldn't be eaten. There's probably more going on, but that was my main observation.

I think the team approach shown, with counseling and other services, must generate lots of billing. Maybe it also helps the patient but there wasn't enough information in the video to find out.

I got the impression that the obesity problem is being attacked by psychological methods rather than simply by proper nutrition.

[bbq]

http://www.hipaaspace.com/Medical_Billing/Coding/NPI/Codes/NPI_1528046224.aspx
http://www.nch.org/treatment-care/comprehensive-weight-management
https://nch.netreturns.biz/Providers/Detail.aspx?ProviderId=c82813c5-d895-44be-b8dc-10135a6fab0e
http://health.usnews.com/doctors/monika-cohen-4695

Let's see:



History | American Board of Obesity Medicine
http://www.abom.org/history

ABOM Certification
http://www.obesity.org/education/abom-certification

Board of Directors | American Board of Obesity Medicine
http://www.abom.org/board-of-directors

I checked them out and some of them seemed to be all about bariatric surgery.

Regarding that BMI over 30 / 27 stuff:

A picture of obesity: NHS tells bodybuilder she must lose weight and exercise more…
http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/26/a-picture-of-obesity-nhs-tells-bodybuilder-she-must-lose-weight-and-exercise-more-4679903/

A superfit bodybuilder was branded overweight and put on a strict diet by an NHS nurse simply based on her BMI.

Anita Albrecht said she was told during a routine appointment she was ‘eating too much’ and needed to lose weight.

The 39-year-old, who works as a personal trainer, said her body mass index came out at 29 – four points over the healthy range and one short of obese.

But Ms Albrecht, who competes against some of the world’s leading bodybuilders, said the measure was distorted by her muscle-bound physique.

She said: ‘She insulted me by making assumptions about my lifestyle.

And then they're pushing stuff like this with ridiculous inGREEDients for "merely" 29 bucks:

http://www.manageyourweight.com/Nutrimed.htm
http://www.robard.com/products/view/cinnamon-bar
http://nuyouweightlossclinic.com/shop/nutrimed-cinnamon-bar-meal-replacement-bar/

[tmoody]

To a much lesser extent, the BMI calculation affects me the same way. I'm 6'1" tall, but my trouser inseam is just 30", which is to say I have short legs for my height. That means my torso is an inch or two longer than normal, since most men my height wear 31" or 32" length trousers. I'm pretty sure this skews my weight upward, relative to height. It also makes it harder to find shirts that fit properly, and an off-the-rack suit never fits!

Add to this the fact that I have lifted weights, on and off, for decades. I'm no bodybuilder but in terms of general body type I'm naturally fairly bulky and even modest weight training tends to increase that muscle mass. When I had my body composition tested some years ago, my body fat was significantly less than what my BMI predicted. None of this is meant to imply that I'm not seriously overweight. I definitely am, but probably not as much as my BMI says, unless even lean mass is a liability. I've seen arguments both ways on that point.

[Poison Ivy]

StarchHEFP, you are a medical doctor, aren't you? Do you tell your patients about this WOE? Have any of them adopted? Do you reveal to them you eat this way? Do they know you post here? Have you told any of them about this forum?

[StarchHEFP]

BBQ that is quite an impressive post! Thank you for looking all that stuff up. These so-called "obesity medicine" doctors are in high demand! Because they make more money for the hospital by shunting patients into these liquid meal replacements which make a lot of money because of the weekly meetings and weekly labs, and also the revolving door after they start eating and fail again, which usually leads directly into the operating room for a sleeve gastrectomy, gastric bypass, or lap-band. $$$

I am on track to certify in the first ever American Board of Lifestyle Medicine this fall. I hope this credential becomes more recognized as the REAL solution to obesity. Of course, people will probably ridicule, deride, fight me, etc. afterwards.
Here is the listing of our board: http://www.ablm.co/about/

I really don't like to judge someone's weight because we all have our burdens in life and reasons for having some extra fat, some of which may include diet, however sometimes it's complicated. However, you do make a valid point that if someone is very overweight, and trying to talk about weight, then they may lack some credibility in the field. In this way, ABLM addresses this.

Part of the requirement of certification is that we all have to be on our personal journey towards the right lifestyle, and submit this template of ourselves http://www.ablm.co/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/MDDOCertificationCaseStudyTemplate.pdf
The plant-based nutrition certificate counds as one of the prerequisites for certification. http://www.ablm.co/how-to-certify/ and if someone does not do this, then the core curriculum of ACLM on [url]lifestylemedicine.org[/url] counts too. Dr. Greger is on the board of ACLM and has done many of the nutrition lectures for their core course.

I hope the readers of this message can disseminate this good information about this upcoming board, and pass it on to their favorite plant-based friendly doctor!

[StarchHEFP]

To a much lesser extent, the BMI calculation affects me the same way. I'm 6'1" tall, but my trouser inseam is just 30", which is to say I have short legs for my height. That means my torso is an inch or two longer than normal, since most men my height wear 31" or 32" length trousers. I'm pretty sure this skews my weight upward, relative to height. It also makes it harder to find shirts that fit properly, and an off-the-rack suit never fits!

Add to this the fact that I have lifted weights, on and off, for decades. I'm no bodybuilder but in terms of general body type I'm naturally fairly bulky and even modest weight training tends to increase that muscle mass. When I had my body composition tested some years ago, my body fat was significantly less than what my BMI predicted. None of this is meant to imply that I'm not seriously overweight. I definitely am, but probably not as much as my BMI says, unless even lean mass is a liability. I've seen arguments both ways on that point.

You are absolutely correct about the BMI. BMI has fallen out of favor recently and is only meant to be a rough estimate of body fat. However when there are exceptions, we are encouraged to use the actual body fat measurement by BIA to determine body composition. I have a Tanita professional scale in the office for this purpose. Many patients are shocked when they find out half their body weight is fat.

[StarchHEFP]

StarchHEFP, you are a medical doctor, aren't you? Do you tell your patients about this WOE? Have any of them adopted? Do you reveal to them you eat this way? Do they know you post here? Have you told any of them about this forum?

Thank you for asking. Let's say that I may or may not be a medical doctor. I am not at liberty to say. (I have to be careful promoting myself as a health professional on these boards because I don't want people to solicit me for medical advice and out of respect for Dr. McDougall who is the boss of these message boards).

I like to maintain some anonymity because of this. I don't want to be an authority, but I am humbly learning just like all of you about this WOE, and constantly trying to find the key to success. I have been telling clients about this WOE for the past few years, and most are unreceptive. A few have adopted, most of them partially. I tell them that the closer one gets to this WOE the more there is benefit. There is benefit from 50/50, and more from 95/5. Of course I do reveal I eat this way, and some of them do get offended, and I have had several complain to my office staff that I'm trying to "turn them vegan". I do give the McDougall website out pretty freely.

I have to tell a story - I printed and stapled about 10 copies of PCRM's guide to healthy weight loss because it's so easy to follow. While many patients don't want to talk to me face-to-face about this WOE, they were gone within 2 days! I need to print like 50 copies and put them out again.

Thank you so much for connecting with me. I enjoy these boards and the ability to talk freely with people, not as an authority but just as a fellow follower of the starch based lifestyle.

[MINNIE]

For more on this topic, Dr. Garth Davis' book, Proteinaholic, tells personal story that is relevant to the overweight health professional issue.

http://proteinaholic.com/

He was having success as a bariatric (weight-loss) surgeon, but he realized that he was sick, out of shape and overweight. His search for a better way to treat his own problems led to his adoption of a whole-food plant-based diet, which he now recommends to patients.

It's a good read, and very informative about the workings of the obesity treatment industry, and why it so often fails.

It's also remarkable because he is admitting that what he learned in school, and believed was best for his patients was actually wrong.

How often does THAT happen?

[Poison Ivy]

Thanks StarchHEFP.

[gracezw]

StarchHEFP, I enjoy reading this thread and many of your other threads. I have learned a lot. Thank you so much!

[patty]

Actually i thought it was pretty good. In watching the "Eating You Alive", on the comments after they said the two fears were the food wouldn't be tasty enough and they wouldn't get enough. Today with smart phones you would just have to give links out for recipes and what works health wise, like I imagine what you have been doing. What was positive about the video you provided it was promoting a team approach. The only thing I would suggest is having a AreoPilates Reformer with a Rebounder right in the office where the patient could experience a rehab gentle approach to exercise.

In the 1920's Joe Pilates treated injured dancers and athletes. Marjolein Burgman a former runner who was in a accident and never thought she would walk let alone run again found recovery with a Pilates Reformer. After getting foot fractures from running she helped create the Rebounder with AeroPilates Reformer, where you get a cardio workout with no impact on your joints.

On a AeroPliates five cord machine it supports up to 350 pounds, someone at a heavy weight with bad knees could have a cardio workout. After Marjolein Burgman had found the benefits from the Pilates machine were so great she thought it was unfair that for so many people wouldn't be able to experience it. The machines and classes were so expensive. She shared at her home she had one that she paid $10.000. Well now through QVC you can purchase them for around the same price as a Vitamix. I purchased 4 of them for myself, and my children and their families. My one son who has all the old style exercise equipment.. who has been beat up from the surfing.. was/is resistant. So I texted him this:

33:30 Question about total gym. Is incline necessary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSUoc8-ysEk&t=2092s

Caller: Am I going to miss the incline?

Marjolein: Let’s talk about incline. Joe Pilates believed, this is really true, that flat was key because #1, when I am training my knees that maybe were injured, you know his dancers were injured or you have imbalances in your body, one shoulder is higher on one side then the other or you are stronger on one side then the other, if you put your body weight on those muscles, those imbalances stay there. If I lie you down and take gravity away, take your body weight away and the machine takes over, now the weak muscles are going to get stronger the tight muscles get longer and all of sudden you get off the first time and you going to see Wow I look, I stand and feel completely different. So it is important to be flat. We could have started incline on our machines but we don’t want too on purpose.

Of course he wasn't receptive to hear it, in sharing with my other son, he explained "Oh it is because he is from the old mind set, "The Motto No Pain No Gain." Again it is like the two fears, not tasty enough, and not enough food. In watching the tv show, The View, they showed a picture of a woman at 181 lbs, and with working out she is the same weight but less dress sizes. The women on The View, all said, "Throw out the scale." Of course the women in the recovery picture was muscular.. on the pilates that doesn't happen. You don't bulk up, the mobilizing muscles become longer and leaner as the machines supports the stabilizing muscles and the mobilizing streach and become more flexible. Marjolein Burgman shares in using the AeroPilates Reformer with the Rebounder she has become more Kinder.. as again it is opposite than "No Pain No Gain", Joe Pilates created it as a Rehab. After the first time you feel taller and more relaxed.

I feel it would be revolutionary if you authentically can show someone a affordable machine that can assist them in recovery. They will be able put the checks and balances with their food with the data/information provided, like from Dr. McDougall. Where they need coaching.. is time for 30 minutes 3 times a week for positive results. People equate time with money. What led me to order the machine in the first place, was a lot of Clients I see backs start to fold. Marjolein shares with the AeroPilates Reformer with the Rebounder you feel 20 years younger and as you create a body with more flexibility with a monster back from working your stabilizing muscles. As Joe Pilates shares working with the stabilizing muscles is working with the foundation of a wall. The machine folds up as laid out it takes a lot of space. One woman caller said she gave hers up when moving, but now she would give up her couch if needed:) Being a rehab machine QVC seemed to be marketing for women in their 50s.. up, who had been injured. It is a family machine.. ages 11 to 90+, 4 1/2 feet to 6 1/2 feet.

Aloha, patty... step out of the box:) treat the whole person/whole family.. let them try it as it is a gentle approach:) Can you imagine the joy of someone forgoing knee operations.. losing weight instead.. with a machine that will actually help them and their family. Dr. Phil said, "Families send someone to the hospital, while the whole family is sick."

[StarchHEFP]

Thank you so much for sharing, Patty! When I checked a few years ago, those reformers were over $2,000. Looks like the price came down. I actually have a total gym and do notice it's kind of hard on the knees. Appreciate your experience.

[patty]

Thank you so much for sharing, Patty! When I checked a few years ago, those reformers were over $2,000. Looks like the price came down. I actually have a total gym and do notice it's kind of hard on the knees. Appreciate your experience.

I made a mistake, when relistening to one of the videos again Marjolein said she had one that cost 5000 at home but prefers the one they sell at QVC. When I upgraded my VitaMix from Costco, I shared I had bought my son and his family one from QVC as they had a special and no SH charges to Hawaii. The guy said QVC do such volume that companies worked out specialties just for them.

What amazes me is the plant base doctors haven't made the 180 degree turn into rehab exercise. They are still embedded in the old Darwin Newtonian thought process. If I remember correctly the last video you had shared was showing the patient exactly what Marjolein Burgman says, we are programed it is normal to grow old and decrepit. Of course the video you had shared was saying that is without intervention of a WFPB lifestyle.

The first time experiencing the Aeropilates Reformer with the Rebonder you know it is a stress reducer because you feel it in the immediacy. As Marjolein shares she feels better then she did 20 years ago. Imagine exercising and not hurting. It takes the pressure off getting the food (time) right, it happens effortlessly as mentally and physically you have more then enough time. As slipping is the nature of addictions. Alcohol and drugs can be put on the shelf but food has to be exercised daily. That is why you live only one day at a time. One thing I learned in AA is always to take the attitude there is no one sicker than you, as then you are open minded and teachable. I hope you give yourself and your family a try on a AeroPilates Reformer. There is always one that isn't as strong as the rest.

Aloha, Patty