Just an observation

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Re: Just an observation

Postby OneLeggedPig » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:30 am

May be somewhat due to bone structure and how pale someone naturally is.

I have quite defined cheekbones and jaw, and am naturally pale. I don't have too much excess body fat now and I get called gaunt and sickly looking. (Actually I cycle everyday and have improved my strength a lot through weights, and almost never get ill at all.) I think at a lower body fat % people can look a bit gaunt, some more than others depending on their faces. And the difference looks dramatic because most people's faces in the western world have extra padding.

Also I believe that extra fat plumps up lines and wrinkles, so without that lines and wrinkles will look more pronounced.
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Re: Just an observation

Postby graciezoe » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:22 am

As per usual, I agree 100% with roundcoconut. Maybe because I've been told I'm too thin by some people, I feel great and I'm healthy but people feel the need to make judgement about the physical. I've met Dr's Esselstyn and Barnard and they look very healthy, probably because they are very healthy. Preferences for what someone thinks of as physical beauty will always be but everyone has different preference and it's not right to put down people who don't fit your preference...this is a generic observation, not directed at anyone here.
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Re: Just an observation

Postby barryoilbegone » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:14 pm

Vivid memories of my mother 16 years ago, shortly after I first turned vegan (pre SS), have been prompted by this thread!:

"You look too thin"

"Sharon (her friend) has noticed you've gotten thinner".

And of two women who've I dated (I no longer am dating either) :cool:

"You're too skinny!"

"You're too thin. I worry about crushing you".

My mother is sadly overweight, bordering on obese for her height and weight. Both the latter women, while their BMI would be in range (only just for the latter) I was to find out had significant historic body image and mental health related eating issues.

My BMI is 21.1. It's varied very little over the years. Never gone below 20.4, and never exceeded 22. This isn't true for all the women I mentioned above.

If people are too underweight, yep that's a problem, as well as overweight. But I think also true some of what's been said on this forum about people sometimes now not knowing what normal weight is anymore: it's become very distorted. It was only really after I started running multiple long distance races did my mother quieten down on this.

I'd add to the thread additionally that if somebody has had weight control issues and mental health problems around weight and eating, there's a good chance in turn that if you're thin or if you're large, then people's fears and insecurities about their weight may well get projected onto you, from people with these issues.

That's not to judge people who do this: I'm a mental health professional. Sometimes people are unconsciously rationalising that they're being helpful with these kind of comments, with many genuinely being duped into believing the mainstream.

Moral of the story? Take the measurements and the biomarkers to know healthy, and not just looks, Thin and healthy we can be proud to say is very different from underweight and malnourished :)
"All people are made alike - of bones and flesh and dinner. Only the dinners are different.”

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Re: Just an observation

Postby katgirl55 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:56 am

The only time I believe a family member should intervene regarding someone's weight is in the event of anorexia nervosa/bulimia, or morbid obesity (where someone's mobility has been compromised). These are both extreme cases and life threatening.

I never comment on someone's weight/appearance, especially if they are just an acquaintance, because I do not know if it is intentional or due to illness. My partner recently suffered from kidney failure and lost a large amount of weight in a short time. Well-meaning coworkers approached her to tell her how great she was looking even though they did not know about the illness. So, although she was having very serious health problems, the positive attention on her weight loss was unwelcome bordering on rude. If you don't know, don't comment. Very simple.
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Re: Just an observation

Postby roundcoconut » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:02 pm

It seems to be a social norm, that whenever someone has made a drastic change to their appearance, that their acquaintances will jump in and say, "Oh it's so good to see you, you look great.". I think the intention is to reassure people that they don't look horrible in their new hair color, or their green eyeshadow! :P

I think sometimes people bend over backwards to assure people who've lost or gained weight, that they are liked. So, someone who gains weight is quickly reassured (by kind people) that they are liked at any weight and don't need to be any different.

It seems like the reverse happens when people lose weight -- kindhearted people tend to reassure them that they don't have to lose weight to be liked -- they were just fine before. Of course, the assumption is that anyone who deliberately cuts back on the richness and quantity of their food, is hungry for people's approval, and maybe doesn't feel confident enough in who they are.

Weird assumptions!
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Re: Just an observation

Postby katgirl55 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:50 pm

roundcoconut, very good insight. I know people mean well, and I shouldn't be offended by their misguided good intentions. In the case of one coworker in particular, she did know about the illness but continued to comment anyway, so I think my irritation is directed at her most of all. It was as if it didn't click with her that someone is in a dire health situation which is causing the weight loss. It is kind of like well-meaning relatives who ask personal questions or pry in the guise of being interested in your life. Or those who feel the need to react to what you are eating after decades of having no interest. When I lost 70 pounds a few years ago I got attention, and although I was nowhere near my goal weight it just felt weird top hear people say "you're wasting away" or "you must feel so much better." I fully admit to bringing my own hang-ups to this conversation.
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Re: Just an observation

Postby roundcoconut » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:58 pm

It is interesting, but people who I generally like and trust can and do comment on my body, in a normal neutral way.

A favorite co-worker of mine, who is also a vegetarian, said to me a couple months ago (when I was at the low end of my chosen weight range), "Oh my gosh, you're so thin!" It was not said in a positive or a negative way, but it was simply an observation, because when you know that someone likes you and trusts you, you don't have to pretend you don't notice their weight fluctuations.

And I said that I was eating a lot of raw foods, and that I felt really good and had a lot of energy. She didn't take this from a perspective of being my judge and jury (she didn't say, "I like how you look really thin" or "I don't like how you look really thin" -- we just wound up talking about how interesting it was for me to eat heavily raw (during the summer).

Strangely, I think I might be inclined to mention (about another person), that I tend to pick up on small shifts in a person's appearance, and that their body has obviously been shifting a bit, and this is certainly something that I've gone through also -- yo-yo-ing up the scale when I'm not coping as well as I want to be. And that's just kind of an opening, and they really don't have to take it if they don't want to. I just don't know if making everyone put on a brave face, and totally ignoring the obvious, is necessarily the best option. I have to say, though, I would only bring this up with someone I felt I connected to, and felt perfectly willing to talk about my food issues and their food issues.

I mean, the worst you're going to find out, is that a person deflects your comment and tells you they're just fine thanks. But I'm starting to feel that I DO actually have something to offer to people who are escalating upwards against their wishes.

Side note, but I think people's commenting about a person's weight loss, when that weight loss is due to trauma or illness, may in fact be coming from a desire to say the right thing socially. I mean, it's a little bit like telling a chemo patient that they look so beautiful with a shaved head, and then they say, "Well, it really wasn't my choice; my hair was falling out from the chemo" and then Person #1 gets to say, "Oh, I never would've known! It is so chic on you!"

I HAVE honestly complimented a woman's haircut, that looked really pretty on her, even though she would've never worn it so short if it weren't for her recent brain cancer surgery. It just looked pretty on her. Even where her scar was, where they cut her head open, was oddly pretty.
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Re: Just an observation

Postby Atheria » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:53 pm

Also, ageing does cause the face to thin out. I weigh the same at 50 that I did at 20, but my face was much fuller at 20. I even admit that I look kind of gaunt now. You lose fat in your face as you age. If you are already leaner due to being a an active, low fat vegan...well...it "can" compound it. Catherine Deneuve once said...when asked how to age gracefully, "Gain 15 lbs. I had to choose between my ass and my face." LOL!

I will admit that the vegans who really pay attention to their diet in terms of making sure they are eating a good variety and getting enough of everything they need, nutritionally, look better than many who don't pay attention. I have met vegans who really do NOT look good. And I've seen vegans who GLOW.

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