Just an observation

[Poison Ivy]

Why do some (not all) people on low fat diets look drawn, gaunt, and weak? They may be healthy, but they don't look like they are.

[colonyofcells]

In america, the obese look has become normal. In rural areas of asia and africa, the lean and skinny look is probably still normal.

[Poison Ivy]

No, I am not talking about skinny. Some people just look weak and unhealthy when you look at them.

[roundcoconut]

can you give an example? i haven't noticed this!

[dynodan62]

No, I am not talking about skinny. Some people just look weak and unhealthy when you look at them.

Everything is relative. That rosey flush chubiness that Americans are used to seeing in their neighbors goes hand-in-hand with pre-heart disease/type 2 diabetes/cancer/etc.
When I disembarked in Vietnam, I was immediately struck by how short/underfed the natives looked. They also looked older to me than their actual years.
The midline between nutritional excess & deprivation is likely how our exemplary WFPBNO teachers SHOULD look. I really have to laugh when obese aquaintances comment on how people like Neal Barnard or Caldwell Esselstein look seriously underfed!
And yet, no one truly knowledgeable could ever accuse them of being nutritionally deprived.

[Poison Ivy]

Maybe, it is just indiv. ppl. I have seen really skinny SAD eaters and they also look unhealthy and sickly. Some PB eaters just have that used up, gaunt, haggard look about them... hard to describe, but I have seen it in SAD eaters also. Maybe, it is more of a genetic thing, IDK!

[Dougalling]

Looks can be deceiving.

Also, remember that a lot of people were sick and that is how they found whole foods plant based. Maybe some of the people you see are on the road to recovery. Or maybe their previous illness has left them with that long lived look.

One person I know has that look. But I know her to be healthy. I also know that she is 100 years old. Still lives in her home. Still does her own shopping.

[kirkj]

Most Americans are overweight now. I go to the gym all the time and many regulars, young and old, are overweight. My BMI moves between 21 and 22. That is thinner than I have ever been as an adult. Most people think I look too skinny. My health is excellent but I certainly look drawn in the face compared to how I looked when my BMI was 23-24.

[MINNIE]

I don't know, because I don't actually know many people who are on low-fat diets. But my guess is that "low fat" means different things to different people.

If they are not eating healthful, real, plant-based foods, they may look unhealthy because they are unhealthy

Most of the dieters I know are doing some kind of low-carb Atkins or Paleo thing. They definitely look unhealthy.

Because they are:(.

Fortunately my personal experience with eating this way, at less that 10% of calories from fat, is that I look healthy.

At least I think I do:).

[f1jim]

I think Minnie is on to it. VERY FEW people I meet eat a true low fat diet. Near zero other than the ones I know through McDougalling. Those McDougallers look pretty darn good. I can't think of a one that looks unhealthy or drawn.
That said, many vegans and vegetarians claim to eat low fat based on their zero or low meat diet. Most of the time a close examination of their diets reveal what we would call here a high fat diet.
We have an Advanced Study Weekend upcoming in Santa Rosa, CA in a very short time.(If tickets are still available please come check it out) You will see a large swath of low fat eaters as well as some interested in eating McDougall. It gives us a chance to chat and ask questions of attendees. Good luck finding a McDougaller that's been on the program for at least 6 months that doesn't radiate health. It's really that black and white. There will be hundreds of people so it's a great place to see the effects of healthy eating in a solid group of people. It will be eye opening for those new to the event.

I do have a friend who eats a vegetarian diet who matches your description to a T. She is gaunt and unhealthy looking and has multiple health issues. I would describe her diet as poor. Lot's of yogurt, lot's of oil, but no meat. Her diet isn't serving her well. Being thin and unhealthy looks bad. Looking heavy and unhealthy looks bad.

Everybody's experience is going to be unique and you may be around many true low fat eaters. That may be your experience but it's certainly not mine here in the S.F. Bay Area. Even in this health oriented area really healthy eating is still rare.
YMMV
f1jim

[roundcoconut]

Honestly, I don't feel it's helpful to anyone to point out vegans and plant-based folks that don't appear outwardly beautiful to your eye. While it very well may be an honest observation, it seems to carry fear out with it. A lot of people really do cave to the opinions of others, especially when others seem to be ganging up on a person. And that is just ridiculous.

As far as outward appearance goes, I have experienced people who knew me 30 pounds heavier tell me I looked like crap. They were used to seeing more flesh on my bones, and to be helpful, they decided to tell me that I looked prettier in a pair of jeans when I was beset with food addictions, PCOS and couldn't run a mile if you chased me.

That attitude makes it seem as though my job in life is to look pretty for you. It's not! In fact, not only is my job NOT to be a pretty girl who doesn't get her clothes dirty -- my job IS to take care of this human body, because it is my only place of residence on planet earth, and if I allow the diseases to take hold in this human body, who is going to fix things then? No one.

Personally, I tell myself VERY clearly, that healthy eating makes me beautiful on the inside, right from day 1. and I tell myself VERY clearly, that healthy eating gives me a beauty that I can radiate outward if I would like to. And I tell myself that anyone who doesn't agree with me is a total f*ckface. (I'm sorry I'm so crass lately, but I do feel you need to put these kinds of attitudes and perspectives in their place -- and HARD!)

So, who gives a rats tail if someone's face is too thin or their skin tone seems to olivey? They can only do what they can do.

PS -- It DOES piss me off that people judge us by our appearance and that this scares people away from doing the very things that would make them healthy . . . BUT . . . This is not directed at the original poster in any way -- it is just something that this thread brings up in me!

[f1jim]

Roundcoconut your point gets debated on these forums a lot over the years.
Unfortunately, people size up other people by outward appearances and it's baked into our survival mechanism. Keeping your genes going generation after generation has meant picky the healthiest partners and associating with healthy people.
Less of an issue today but our genetics prompt us to be as picky as possible. That doesn't mean everyone has to be the same height and weight, but it means we all have an instinct to be attracted to the healthier of the available options. That doesn't mean slamming others for not looking as healthy but it does have it's place in humans and their longevity as a species.
What is rather new in our culture is HOW we define health and HOW we get there. This is the really useful discussion that revolves around maximizing our health and the tools we use to achieve it.
We can talk in generalities about health, appearance, and of course the role of nutrition ion both of those areas. We would be remiss to not discuss the inter relatedness of all these things. We can do that in a non judgemental way when it comes to individuals yet discuss appearances in a more general way. That's a good thing. To not be able to do that for fear of hurting someones sensibilities is counterproductive.
f1jim

[roundcoconut]

Unfortunately, people size up other people by outward appearances and it's baked into our survival mechanism.

I am always surprised that people think that mate selection was the be-all-end-all for human survival. I think it is far more likely that living in COMMUNITY was the thing that protected our survival (and the survival of our offspring) best.

Who gathered food to share with me while I was injured or ill for several weeks? Who kept me from being murdered in my sleep so that my food / clothing / shelter could not be usurped by another group? Who kept my kids from drowning, wandering off, or getting eaten while I was out hunting or gathering?

In so many societies, my biggest protection (from personal extinction, and from the extinction of my bloodline) was from living in community among trustworthy people who had my back. Whether those people were still in their prime, or capable of reproducing, probably didn't matter. In fact, I suspect that many of the people that I relied on for my personal survival, and for the survival of my offspring, were not men who were virile and in the prime of life, nor women who had a favorable waist-to-hip ratio for childbirth.

So I find it odd when mate selection is considered to be the only thing, because it seems to me that community was far more important for survival!

The person who guarded the fire didn't have to have pretty skin tone or a virile body -- they just had to be able to keep the fire going.

The people who gathered food for the community didn't have to be able to bear children -- they could totally sterile -- they just needed to do their part to identify and collect the foods that were edible and nutritious.

And on and on!

It is at least one perspective worth considering!

[f1jim]

No one said it was the only or even the most important consideration. Community can be very important. The discernment of health happens not just at the species level but even within the communities you speak of. It's a universal part of our being and much as we wish it wasn't there it is.
Those bearing children, by coincidence, have borne the lions share of food gathering for most of human existence too. Someone looking trim and healthy has a better chance at bringing home more food. Another survival mechanism that plays out at the individual and the community level. Life isn't a case of all or nothing in these survival choices. But it does help explain most every cultures inherent interest in health and vitality. Obviously this can be crazy out of whack, going far beyond basic health interest and surely our culture does that at times. The pressing need for all to emulate movie stars and other performers can be down right sickening. The cultural worship of celebrity idols certainly isn't healthy for anyone, yet a trip down the supermarket checkout aisle will reveal just how important this has become to us. My gut feeling is this is a minor issue with this group.
Make no mistake, looking healthy and vital is an asset to anyone in any part of history we care to examine. I can't see that changing. Getting ahead within a community many times involves physical appearance. Perhaps, to a certain level, that's a good thing.
f1jim

[Helpinghands]

I believe that "look" as referred to has to do with rapid weight loss. It takes some time for the body to normalize after a 100 pound loss in under a year. I have pictures of myself after six months of in hospital intravenous chemo. I have that look and it took another year for it to disappear. In fact a number of my family describe it as death warmed over.