Plant Fats Saturated

[markkislich]

Howdy I was wondering:

a question re saturated plant fats. I leave cocnut oil well alone, but sometimes have a -little- dark chocolate.
Apart from increasing the risk of cardiovascular disease, do these saturated plant fats have the same deteriorating effects as animal fats? As in for example boosting cancer growth off the charts in combo with other plant fats, etc?

Thanks.

[GeoffreyLevens]

Emerging Role of Flavonoid-Rich Cocoa and Chocolate in Cardiovascular Health and Disease

Cocoa, chocolate and cardiovascular disease

Chocolate and Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease: A Systematic Review

[markkislich]

Emerging Role of Flavonoid-Rich Cocoa and Chocolate in Cardiovascular Health and Disease

Cocoa, chocolate and cardiovascular disease

Chocolate and Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease: A Systematic Review

Thanks.
What about the carcinogenic side of saturated fats?
Hint: Dr McDougall says that research shows saturated (animal) fats to be so-so carcinogenic, but then in combo with plant fats the cancer growth rate shot through the roof.
Does the same apply to plants saturated fats?

[markkislich]

Emerging Role of Flavonoid-Rich Cocoa and Chocolate in Cardiovascular Health and Disease

Cocoa, chocolate and cardiovascular disease

Chocolate and Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease: A Systematic Review

Wait a minute. I'd like to know what Dr. McDougall has to say abut this, NOT google...? I can google this myself, no offense. Or are these links also the consensus here?

[GeoffreyLevens]

Consensus is that chocolate is very high in fat and not much eaten if at all. Carcinogenic? Not so far as the research shows. Same with other plant fats if eating in their native form i.e. in the plant the come in and not extracted.

[markkislich]

I will try to make my question more clear:

If you're lean, some walnuts are OK. Am I right?

If you're lean, is some chocolate OK? (plant saturated fat)
If you're lean, would some coconut oil be OK? (plant saturated fat)

NOT out of body fat-gain considerations, but for cardiovascular and carcinogenic concerns.

Mark

[markkislich]

Consensus is that chocolate is very high in fat and not much eaten if at all. Carcinogenic? Not so far as the research shows. Same with other plant fats if eating in their native form i.e. in the plant the come in and not extracted.

OK thank you for the much clearer reply.
So if I understand this right then
If I am lean and do not gain body fat by eating dark chocolate (or say whole coconut), then it's OK.
The saturated fat in cocoa butter or whole coconut is not carcinogenic -neither on its own nor in combination with other unsaturated plant fats (as animal fats have been shown to be)
Nor
Does it create heart disease.

Did I get that right?
Thanks again.
Mark

[f1jim]

No added oil is recommended for anyone regardless of BMI.
Just a note, many including Dr. McDougall feel that plant fats and oils can be as damaging as animal fats.
f1jim

[markkislich]

No added oil is recommended for anyone regardless of BMI.
Just a note, many including Dr. McDougall feel that plant fats and oils can be as damaging as animal fats.
f1jim

I remember hearing Dr McDougall repeatedly saying that he does not believe they're unhealthy, if you're lean, his main concern being that they are fattening.
See the confusion? Has that standpoint changed recently, or...

[AlwaysAgnes]

I will try to make my question more clear:

If you're lean, some walnuts are OK. Am I right?

If you're lean, is some chocolate OK? (plant saturated fat)
If you're lean, would some coconut oil be OK? (plant saturated fat)

NOT out of body fat-gain considerations, but for cardiovascular and carcinogenic concerns.

Mark

Free vegetable oils (including coconut oil) are classified feast foods. Feast foods are limited (rarely eaten--like less than once/month) for healthy people and avoided by people with health issues.

The foods that Dr. McDougall has classified as dangerous and that should never be eaten are listed as follows:

1. Nitrite-containing meats: ham, hot dogs, sausages, cold cuts, and bacon.
2. Supermarket quality meat: pork, beef, organ meats, and poultry. They are contaminated with substances that are suspected of causing birth defects and cancers.
3. Hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated vegetable oils: margarines, vegetable shortenings: found in most packaged foods from cookies to breath mints.
4. Charcoal-broiled and smoked foods.
5. Deep-fried foods.

Dr. McDougall has categorized dairy-free chocolate as a rich plant food, something that healthy people might eat daily in small amounts (less than 10% of calories). He says, "in general, they are more harmful than health-supporting." Nuts also fall under the rich plant food category. This info is from https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/dec/nyr.htm

This article is interesting. http://www.livescience.com/36626-cocoa- ... efits.html :
"Even if cocoa butter is the silent partner in the powder-butter duo, it's far from inactive in the body. Cocoa butter consists mainly of palmitic, stearic, and oleic acids. Palmitic acid, a solid, saturated fat, increases risk of cardiovascular disease. Stearic acid, which is also a solid, saturated fat, appears to have a neutral effect, which is uncommon among saturated fats. Oleic acid, meanwhile, is a liquid, monounsaturated fat that decreases the risk of heart disease.

"Very generally speaking, unhealthy fatty acids tend to be solid at room temperature, while healthier fatty acids tend to be found in the liquid state. The net effect of the fatty acids in cocoa butter is that it has little effect on heart health per se, although it does deliver a serious caloric punch, only worsened by the milk and sugar that are often added to chocolate."

[Chikiwing]

Just a note, many including Dr. McDougall feel that plant fats and oils can be as damaging as animal fats.
f1jim

I'm in that group.

[f1jim]

Dr. McDougall was speaking about processed plant oils and fats. Not the oils inherent in the plants with the exception of the tendency to gain weight on certain high fat plant foods. Coconut, avocado, etc.
f1jim

[markkislich]

I will try to make my question more clear:

If you're lean, some walnuts are OK. Am I right?

If you're lean, is some chocolate OK? (plant saturated fat)
If you're lean, would some coconut oil be OK? (plant saturated fat)

NOT out of body fat-gain considerations, but for cardiovascular and carcinogenic concerns.

Mark

Free vegetable oils (including coconut oil) are classified feast foods. Feast foods are limited (rarely eaten--like less than once/month) for healthy people and avoided by people with health issues.

The foods that Dr. McDougall has classified as dangerous and that should never be eaten are listed as follows:

1. Nitrite-containing meats: ham, hot dogs, sausages, cold cuts, and bacon.
2. Supermarket quality meat: pork, beef, organ meats, and poultry. They are contaminated with substances that are suspected of causing birth defects and cancers.
3. Hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated vegetable oils: margarines, vegetable shortenings: found in most packaged foods from cookies to breath mints.
4. Charcoal-broiled and smoked foods.
5. Deep-fried foods.

Dr. McDougall has categorized dairy-free chocolate as a rich plant food, something that healthy people might eat daily in small amounts (less than 10% of calories). He says, "in general, they are more harmful than health-supporting." Nuts also fall under the rich plant food category. This info is from https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/dec/nyr.htm

This article is interesting. http://www.livescience.com/36626-cocoa- ... efits.html :
"Even if cocoa butter is the silent partner in the powder-butter duo, it's far from inactive in the body. Cocoa butter consists mainly of palmitic, stearic, and oleic acids. Palmitic acid, a solid, saturated fat, increases risk of cardiovascular disease. Stearic acid, which is also a solid, saturated fat, appears to have a neutral effect, which is uncommon among saturated fats. Oleic acid, meanwhile, is a liquid, monounsaturated fat that decreases the risk of heart disease.

"Very generally speaking, unhealthy fatty acids tend to be solid at room temperature, while healthier fatty acids tend to be found in the liquid state. The net effect of the fatty acids in cocoa butter is that it has little effect on heart health per se, although it does deliver a serious caloric punch, only worsened by the milk and sugar that are often added to chocolate."

Now THERE'S a comprehensive, clear and precise answer.
Thank you Agnes, thank you very much, really appreciated!
Mark

[GeoffreyLevens]

Somebody has to say this, Agnes, that was a tasty answer! HAH! It was also clear and comprehensive.

[Hal]

How does pure cocoa fit into this equation? I use fry's cocoa in some things, but stopped when i thought it could be a source of elevated BP and cardiovascular issues.