Heart Attack Proof ?

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby trotskyite » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:22 pm

I believe this study shows clearly why a type1 diabetic would have lower cholesterol levels than a non-diabetic.

Cholesterol Metabolism in Type 1 Diabetes

"These findings can be interpreted to indicate high absorption and low synthesis of cholesterol in patients with type 1 diabetes compared with nondiabetic control subjects."

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/53/9/2217
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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby pundit999 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:51 pm

Diabetes is just one disease. Diabetes may be treated by reducing carbs in your diet or by addressing insulin resistance.

This diet improves insulin resistance, the basic reason of diabetes. The low carb diet reduces carbs in the diet, thereby getting around the main problem.

Low carb/high animal diet is bad for your heart and it makes you prone to various kinds of cancers and auto immune diseases.

Read How Not To Die from Dr Greger.
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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby Ron4310 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:15 pm

patty wrote:
I am sure you remember when you washed your dishes in the past, the fat and oil on the plates and pans stuck to the sides of sink. What we feed our heart, feeds our mind and our entire body. The fat you eat is the fat you wear.

Aloha, patty


Good example.
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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby patty » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:46 pm

Dwight wrote:
patty wrote:
Dwight wrote:Thank you


Thank you Patty.

You are in a thought streaming mode. I love your "fat on the sides of the sink" metaphor.

I'm not sure about the other generalities. Some other time we can debate whether addiction is a thinking disease or whether addiction is grounded fundamentally in biology. I'm reading a book by a psychoanalyst Dr Dodes whose premise is that addiction is a thinking disease. Gabor Mate MD has written that addiction has clear biological under-pinnings.

None of the foregoing explains the excellent blood numbers of Dr. Bernstein. You state the fat you eat is the fat you wear. Presumably you are also referring to the fat clogging arteries. This is contradicted by Dr Bernstein's HDL reading of about 140 which is astounding.

more questions than answers. So what else is new?


I feel with Dr. McDougall time is on our side, once you have the understanding genetics is the gun and lifestyle pulls the trigger. I work as a home health aide, and I am gifted as my Client's are my best teachers. If you haven't read Dr. McDougall's Digestion Tune-Up be sure too. When Dr. McDougall was debating someone, a low carb advocate. He asked two questions, "How's your breath?" "How is your digestion?" Remember we are all dealers, don't buy the masquerade. When Dr. McDougall shared there was no money to be made from chronic illness, because it is food borne. There is no greater truth. The biological metabolic dollar of fat and oil stops with Dr. McDougall. Life is about the giving non-losing principle. It is a WOE currency. Wishing you the best. I will have to check out the books you mentioned. Mahalo!

Aloha, patty


I checked Audible.com and found two books by Gabor Mate.. http://www.audible.com/search/ref=a_hp_ ... Gabor+mate I chose "When the Body Says No". Again Mahalo, patty
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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby Hal » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:17 pm

Ya. I think he is right, in that our diet causes heart attacks, and if you follow his diet, diet will not cause heart attack.
So ya, his claim is reasonable, and doing anything less than following the McDougall diet is inviting trouble that is easily avoided. :nod:
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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby calvin » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:57 pm

Landing squarely under the heading of "posts that make me go 'hmm', i have:

Hal wrote:Ya. I think he is right, in that our diet causes heart attacks, and if you follow his diet, diet will not cause heart attack. So ya, his claim is reasonable, and doing anything less than following the McDougall diet is inviting trouble that is easily avoided. :nod:


What are you saying? Just curious.
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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby patty » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:30 am

@Dwight

Many years ago my herbalist teacher explained in treating dis ease it
Is important to take care of the physical first. As in AA you learn to take the body to the meetings and the head will follow. I feel that is where being starched based fits because comforts our longing to be Whole.

What jumped out at me when listening to Gabor Mate's "When the Body Says No", is the characteristic of having ALS is being nice. In my work as a home health aide I have witnessed this with those who have the condition of Parkinson's.

I love this quote:
The softness conquers the hard. The yielding conquers the resistance. A fact known by all men but utilized by none. Lao Tzu


I feel we are in a being nice while not being a doormat paradigm and the Starch creates the Satiety that allows. Addiction being a thinking dis ease the Satiety of the Starch allows this too will pass. As it is kindness that creates happiness. In relationships we find we always have paradoxes of matching junk that transcends into matching allurement. Each of us is the most important component in the feedback back loop of the food industry and medical industry. Whenever you go deep it is important to go abstract.

"The universe is connected and alive and we are a part of the metric of space." - Nassim Haramein

"Every living being is an engine geared to the wheelwork of the universe. Though seemingly affected only by its immediate surrounding, the sphere of external influence extends to infinite distance." – Nikola Tesla

“A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.” ― Albert Einstein

“You are not IN the universe, you ARE the universe, an intrinsic part of it. Ultimately you are not a person, but a focal point where the universe is becoming conscious of itself. What an amazing miracle.” ― Eckhart Tolle

“You are a function of what the whole universe is doing in the same way that a wave is a function of what the whole ocean is doing.” ― Alan Watts

"We are most probably here for local information-gathering and local-Universe problem-solving in support of the integrity of eternally regenerative Universe." – Buckminster Fuller

“Recognize that the very molecules that make up your body, the atoms that construct the molecules, are traceable to the crucibles that were once the centers of high mass stars that exploded their chemically rich guts into the galaxy, enriching pristine gas clouds with the chemistry of life. So that we are all connected to each other biologically, to the earth chemically and to the rest of the universe atomically. That’s kinda cool! That makes me smile and I actually feel quite large at the end of that. It’s not that we are better than the universe, we are part of the universe. We are in the universe and the universe is in us. ” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

“Get over it, and accept the inarguable conclusion. The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual.” – R.C. Henry, Professor of physics and Astronomy at Johns Hopkins University

The Resonance Project • The connected universe • The Resonance Project - Página Oficial Hispana • The Resonance Project - Traduction Française • Expanded Consciousness • Spirit Science • The Mind Unleashed • (post by Jamie Janover)


Make sure if you haven't already read Dr Greger's "How Not to Die". His father passed from the condition of Parkinson's. And feels this WOE is the answer and I do too. As Dr. McDougall shares chronic illnesses are food borne. First things first. Starch is the antidote of putting principles before personalties. You are on the right track and taking us with you! Mahalo for sharing!

Aloha, Patty
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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby Kaye » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:13 pm

I'm just starting the 2nd two week block of my plant based nutrition certificate and see there is a section titled "can you be heart attack proof" so I will report back on what that involves.
Plant-Based Nutrition Certificate, Completed February 2017, T. Colin Campbell Center for Nutrition Studies and eCornell
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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby roundcoconut » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:35 pm

A few years ago, there was a neighborhood stray cat, that began to show clear signs of ill health -- the cat did not take shelter during the coldest nights, and we'd find her lying in her own urine the next morning. So a neighbor took her to a vet to see if there was anything we could do, and the vet said that the cat had lung cancer and nothing could be done -- we should just help her be comfortable for her remaining days.

Well, the thing that we (of course) said to one another when we learned of the cat's diagnosis, was, "How unfair! She never smoked a day in her life." Ha!

My point, of course, is that even if a person is doing everything they can to improve their heart health, there is always the outlying possibility that your heart could malfunction in some way or another. There are no guarantees on this earth -- do the best you can, and then leave the rest to the Universe.

By eating the healthiest foods we can get our hands on, as much of the time as we can, we can (vastly) lower our risks. But I am hard-pressed to say that a few years of good eating can make the cardiovascular system indestructible. THat just seems like too much of a stretch! Huge overpromises there!
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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby f1jim » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:10 pm

" But I am hard-pressed to say that a few years of good eating can make the cardiovascular system indestructible. THat just seems like too much of a stretch! Huge overpromises there!"

I have not seen that promise ever made here. Words have meaning. Let's be more precise....
We know the mechanism that creates heart attacks pretty well. We know that eating a VERY healthy diet reduces those risks of heart attack to almost insignificant proportions. Stop the daamage, let healing start and you are pretty much heart attack proof. Again, that 100% figure is dangerous but for all intents and purposes you ARE heart attack proof.
That's not overpromising, that's what the results from Pritikin, Ornish, and Esselstyn tell us. It's plenty to take faith in and should be enough to make people jump on board.
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While adopting this diet and lifestyle program I have reversed my heart disease, high cholesterol, hypertension, and lost 54 lbs. You can follow my story at https://www.drmcdougall.com/james-brown/
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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby landog » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:51 pm

I have heard Dr. Esselstyn lecture several times.

The point he is making is that the soft plaques that are a cause of most heart attacks will not form if remove their building blocks from your diet. Once you do, in a matter of a few weeks, the existing plaques will harden and new soft plaques will no longer be present to rupture.

By doing so, you have eliminated the most common cause of heart attacks.

I wouldn't criticize the 'heart attach proof' label, but focus on the message.
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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby jay kaye » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:23 pm

From Jeff Novick FB page
Jeff Novick, MS, RD I got to met Dr Castelli back around 1992 and spend some time with him. At the time, I asked him about the often quoted statement of his that there had never been a heart attack in anyone who had a Total Cholesterol of under 150 and he told me that was not accurate and there had been a few (~5). In this interview he discusses that.

DR. WILLIAM CASTELLI: Well if you could, yeah. I mean, we have had about a half a dozen people get eventually a heart attack with a total cholesterol under 150 in Framingham. One of them did have this high triglyceride/low HDL syndrome. The other four or five, we don't know what they had.


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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby pundit999 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:20 am

jay kaye wrote:From Jeff Novick FB page
Jeff Novick, MS, RD I got to met Dr Castelli back around 1992 and spend some time with him. At the time, I asked him about the often quoted statement of his that there had never been a heart attack in anyone who had a Total Cholesterol of under 150 and he told me that was not accurate and there had been a few (~5). In this interview he discusses that.

DR. WILLIAM CASTELLI: Well if you could, yeah. I mean, we have had about a half a dozen people get eventually a heart attack with a total cholesterol under 150 in Framingham. One of them did have this high triglyceride/low HDL syndrome. The other four or five, we don't know what they had.


j


Jay:

Dr Castelli is merely talking about how even a low cholesterol level may not be sufficient. There is no talk of what these people were eating, let alone if they were eating a plants only diet. It is possible that these guys had a genetic composition that resulted in low cholesterol while their diet was still bad.

A plants only diet affects heart disease in myriad ways, cholesterol being just one. They are still finding new ways. TMAO is the most recent. A plants only diet also thins the blood, having an effect similar to taking an aspirin daily.
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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby roundcoconut » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:53 am

landog wrote:I wouldn't criticize the 'heart attach proof' label, but focus on the message.


Landog, I completely agree with what you're saying! Pretty much whatever you say, seems to be on the money, most all the time.

The thing that I think we will see from time to time in the plant-based community, is that people -- both well-intentioned and ill-intentioned -- will identify or manufacture some outrageous claims by the plant-based community, and then attack those.

So whenever that happens, i think it's worth taking a few seconds to mention that eating plants is not a magic spell but DOES offer basic prevention of most kinds of foolish and unnecessary cardiac deaths. (Exactly as you said.)

I also notice that people who do not REALLY want to change their diet, will kinda "bargain" for benefits -- like: "So how long do I gotta do this for to get rid of my hip pain?" And "So my blood pressure will go back to normal in about three weeks, right?" Because there are defintely people still living within the I-LUV-SAD paradigm, where they don't REALLY want to change, but feel maybe they can "buy" some pain relief with a couple weeks of exotic, crazy, plant-based behaviors.

In the latter case (people who are bargaining), it is worth pointing out that no, there is no absolute protection from cardiac death, when you have a lifetime of cardiac abuse in your history.

Just my thoughts about why people are manufacturing (and then questioning) extreme claims and perceived guarantees!
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Re: Heart Attack Proof ?

Postby f1jim » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:00 am

So what's an extreme claim? Show me the outlandish claims a plant based leader is making. We talk like this is common and I want to see one. The leaders that I know give the data their claims are based on and explain the mechanisms behind the benefits.
Maybe I live in a cave but I don't see those claims thrown out there in my world.
Give me a website for that kind of outlandish claims. Are we just assuming this type of hype is common?
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