SNAP benefits / what most people buy

[vgpedlr]

What is wrong with this picture? Someone help me out. I don't see fruits, veggies, whole intact grains or legumes here.

A thought:

This is based on money spent. So the biggest items are by cost only, so the items that are commonly consumed and cost more will rise to the top. That may not reflect exactly what's in the cart. For the non-SNAP side, no real plant foods show up until berries. Guess what? Berries are expensive. Less expensive rice, potatoes, beans, carrots etc. would need to be bought in large quantity to compete as measured by expenditure.

I thought about this because that list reflects shopping trips my family make, but there are also fruits and veggies represented. It would be a better picture to look at calories consumed, but I doubt that would look much better.

Irony alert:
Those more expensive products are referred to as "value added." That's pretty funny. I don't see any value added anywhere but industry revenues.

[StarchHEFP]

What is wrong with this picture? Someone help me out. I don't see fruits, veggies, whole intact grains or legumes here.

A thought:

This is based on money spent. So the biggest items are by cost only, so the items that are commonly consumed and cost more will rise to the top. That may not reflect exactly what's in the cart. For the non-SNAP side, no real plant foods show up until berries. Guess what? Berries are expensive. Less expensive rice, potatoes, beans, carrots etc. would need to be bought in large quantity to compete as measured by expenditure.

I thought about this because that list reflects shopping trips my family make, but there are also fruits and veggies represented. It would be a better picture to look at calories consumed, but I doubt that would look much better.

Irony alert:
Those more expensive products are referred to as "value added." That's pretty funny. I don't see any value added anywhere but industry revenues.

The "value added" refers to the food industry, not the consumer As far as the $ amount, my $ amount is MUCH higher for the staples like rice, beans, Bob's red mill products, fruits, veggies, and very very minimal for all else. But then my grocery bill is probably 1/3 of other people.

[StarchHEFP]

I see some of the above posts and I want to let everyone know in COOK COUNTY, we have a VEGAN leader! He convened a large plant-based meeting with Dr. T. Colin, Nelson Campbell, and many experts in nutrition for 2 days, had lots of vegan food, ALL for only $50. And everyone including many public health workers and workers of the agencies in Chicago heard this plant-based message. We had sessions on SNAP, and how to bring food to "food desserts" so no that it is not all hopeless but change has to be LOCAL first, with great leaders like Dr. Terry Mason. I encourage you to follow him on social media, or to follow Cook Co. Dept of Public Health. Know that he's he-- bent on promoting eating of plants to Chicago. Know that he's fixing for a revolution, and already starting in a very large Church on the south side, promoting plant-based seminars that are free regularly. If y'all ever in Chicago, I'll try to find his schedule for you so you can give it a go.

In fact, I just remembered, I'm meeting with CCDPH TOMORROW to see what's possible, along with a fully plant-based RN, certified diabetic educator, trained with T. Colin Campbell, as well as Food for Life! Small revolution beginning in the 2nd city very soon. Stay tuned.

[MINNIE]

Wow! That is great! I wish some of that enlightened thinking would spread northward to Wisconsin. Maybe someday?

But first they would have to break through all the barricades of cheese and sausage erected by the inhabitants s.

[Chikiwing]

I have worked with numerous patients on SNAP, trying to show them how they can save LOADS of money by buying McDougall-type meals, like potatoes, rice, lentils. $6 = 10 lb. lentils which goes a long way. 20 lbs. rice is cheap, as are carrots, celery, pinto beans, romaine lettuce, kale, tomatoes, and many other healthy foods. I've printed out 30-40 pages from Dr. McDougall and handed it to patients. All with extremely little success. No one seems to have the solution, but I think providing cheap, ready to eat meals in the same fashion as stouffers' or hungry man or whatever it's called is probably the way to go.

Most people, with the economic ability, or without a preventing health crisis, are going to eat the SAD.

That's just the way it is and the way it's going to be.

Fat, sugar, and salt, taste good. That's why fast food jack up these items in their products. That's the bottom line.

Keep giving information though. Every once in a while you'll find someone smarter than the herd.

[StarchHEFP]

Wow! That is great! I wish some of that enlightened thinking would spread northward to Wisconsin. Maybe someday?

But first they would have to break through all the barricades of cheese and sausage erected by the inhabitants s.

You're right. Poutine = death. There is a WFPB cardiologist in Kenosha, believe it or not. Glimmer of hope in Dr. Kevin Fullin. The land of cheese and milk now has a vegan cardiologist. Milwaukee I've heard has lots of vegan eateries now.

https://www.foodnotmeds.com/a-cardiologist-is-planting-the-seeds-of-plant-based-nutrition-and-reversing-chronic-disease-a-very-interesting-read/

[audretoburrito]

Hi,
My husband and I are on a fixed income do to being blind so we don't qualify for SNAP. However many of our friends do and it seems in the state of California a single male or female will get about $190 a month. They have limits like previously mentioned and aren't able to by things like toilette paper or other personal hygiene products. They also can't buy household products like garbage bags, dish soap, paper towels etc.
The big ringer that got my husband to let me do this diet is I told him I could feed myself, our cat and buy what household things we need. I can't say this has been a total win since I got extra nut butter, sugar, cocoa and coffee beans from my mother-in-law the other day.
Also, nobody has mentioned the availability people may have to quality foods near them. Since I can't drive within walking distance are a gas station with a tiny shopping center, a Walgreens, a fast food spot and a $ General. I have never seen fresh produce of any kind at any of these places. So using myself for an example I go once a month to a big store like Winco or Walmart. I'll buy as much as I can at these stores because they are the cheapest and pray my vegetables and fruits lasts 2 weeks. Than I usually range a ride to the local Savemart and by my parishables I'll need for the rest of the month Since I'll be starting MWL I'm excited to see how eating MWL will affect my budget or not. I already know I'll need to buy a set of measuring cups and spoons and most likely more then a few spices.

[patty]

Hi,
My husband and I are on a fixed income do to being blind so we don't qualify for SNAP. However many of our friends do and it seems in the state of California a single male or female will get about $190 a month. They have limits like previously mentioned and aren't able to by things like toilette paper or other personal hygiene products. They also can't buy household products like garbage bags, dish soap, paper towels etc.
The big ringer that got my husband to let me do this diet is I told him I could feed myself, our cat and buy what household things we need. I can't say this has been a total win since I got extra nut butter, sugar, cocoa and coffee beans from my mother-in-law the other day.
Also, nobody has mentioned the availability people may have to quality foods near them. Since I can't drive within walking distance are a gas station with a tiny shopping center, a Walgreens, a fast food spot and a $ General. I have never seen fresh produce of any kind at any of these places. So using myself for an example I go once a month to a big store like Winco or Walmart. I'll buy as much as I can at these stores because they are the cheapest and pray my vegetables and fruits lasts 2 weeks. Than I usually range a ride to the local Savemart and by my parishables I'll need for the rest of the month Since I'll be starting MWL I'm excited to see how eating MWL will affect my budget or not. I already know I'll need to buy a set of measuring cups and spoons and most likely more then a few spices.

Every time I hear SNAP, I think of Jeff Novick's Fast Food Vol. 1 dvd. Being a food addict I was amazed, Jeff's recipes are not only simple to make and the ingredients are affordable and to be purchased at our local market. And I learned to appreciate the importance of frozen foods. As Jeff explains, some foods are seasonal. Online is the recipe sheet that comes with the video. http://www.livehealthyappalachia.org/wp ... ecipes.pdf Of course the real reward is the freedom of no loving being subservient to Big Food/Big Medicine. Slowly we learn we are the most important component in the feedback loop of the food and medical industry. Your husband is one lucky guy:) Not two:)

Aloha, patty

[judynew]

Aside from food deserts, another problem poor people experience is lack of cooking facilities. Many of them, at least here in the Toronto area, live in rooms and don't have stoves or refrigerators. Batch cooking of healthy foods is not an option for them. It's just so much easier to swing by McDonalds. Not insurmountable but giving them a bag of beans would not be helpful. Efforts to teach nutrition have to take those things into account and I'm sure it's the same for many truly poor people.

Another thing that needs to change is that people donate all that crap to food banks. Walking by the donation bins, there are all the sugary cereals and junk in there. People donate what they would like to eat themselves, I suppose.

One question. Are "beef grinds" an actual thing? I've never heard that expression before.

[StarchHEFP]

Aside from food deserts, another problem poor people experience is lack of cooking facilities. Many of them, at least here in the Toronto area, live in rooms and don't have stoves or refrigerators. Batch cooking of healthy foods is not an option for them. It's just so much easier to swing by McDonalds. Not insurmountable but giving them a bag of beans would not be helpful. Efforts to teach nutrition have to take those things into account and I'm sure it's the same for many truly poor people.

Another thing that needs to change is that people donate all that crap to food banks. Walking by the donation bins, there are all the sugary cereals and junk in there. People donate what they would like to eat themselves, I suppose.

One question. Are "beef grinds" an actual thing? I've never heard that expression before.

I think it's the government word for "ground beef". I guess it's a thing!

[dynodan62]

Hi,
My husband and I are on a fixed income do to being blind so we don't qualify for SNAP. However many of our friends do and it seems in the state of California a single male or female will get about $190 a month. They have limits like previously mentioned and aren't able to by things like toilette paper or other personal hygiene products. They also can't buy household products like garbage bags, dish soap, paper towels etc.
The big ringer that got my husband to let me do this diet is I told him I could feed myself, our cat and buy what household things we need. I can't say this has been a total win since I got extra nut butter, sugar, cocoa and coffee beans from my mother-in-law the other day.
Also, nobody has mentioned the availability people may have to quality foods near them. Since I can't drive within walking distance are a gas station with a tiny shopping center, a Walgreens, a fast food spot and a $ General. I have never seen fresh produce of any kind at any of these places. So using myself for an example I go once a month to a big store like Winco or Walmart. I'll buy as much as I can at these stores because they are the cheapest and pray my vegetables and fruits lasts 2 weeks. Than I usually range a ride to the local Savemart and by my parishables I'll need for the rest of the month Since I'll be starting MWL I'm excited to see how eating MWL will affect my budget or not. I already know I'll need to buy a set of measuring cups and spoons and most likely more then a few spices.

Does California have Aldi stores? In the Midwest, if you are poor, that is where your food dollar goes farthest. Most everything is generic/off-brand, and the produce is not fancy, but it's no worse that the (supposedly) 'fresh' produce that is overpriced and already rotting by the time it hits Walmart's cooler shelves. I have learned to ignore the expiration date on Walmart boxed greens, as no matter how far in future is that date, I know I must consume it immediately, as it will otherwise be rotten the next day.

[katgirl55]

I don't mean to sound condescending but it's pretty late in the game to try to teach adults cooking skills many don't want to learn.
I think a brief flyer when they apply for benefits and stretching their dollars and maximizing nutrition would be helpful.
But I think ALL kids should have to go through a "life skills" course in school. It would be a course that focused on basic day to day skills to get through life. Many used to get these skills in the service or in homemaking classes but both are not a part of everyday lives anymore. Basics like cooking with staple foods. Basic hygiene. Maintaining clothing. Balancing a checkbook. (ok maybe that one is too dated)
Cooking a pot of beans or a container of rice should be common knowledge. We insist kids learn second languages but not survival basics? Like any good sports team having troubles some times you have to go back to basics.
f1jim

I 100% agree!

Schools assume that kids are being taught these skills by their parents. But the parents often are not teaching their kids basic life skills, and maybe they assume the schools are doing it. Many parents do not know these skills themselves and cannot teach what they don't know, or they will spread misinformation.

Students have a right to be taught basic life skills and personal health (including sex ed).

[barryoilbegone]

There's a lot here to suggest as well, whether rich kid or poor kid fed by SNAP, that making sure kids get the same nutrition messages in school for health is so critical. That the basics of sound nutrition starchivore style, and not the SAD way, is important as part of getting away from the poverty line could be taught in schools - hopefully it's getting that way bit by bit, although we've admittedly a very long way to go on this.

Secondly for poor farming communities that have been described, where animal farming is avoiding poverty for people, a critical law change for them to receive financial incentives and subsidies to grow starches, vegetables and fruits, instead of subsidised meat, dairy, and eggs, would also do a great deal for economies in the long run. As well as healthy eating and living in the USA and elsewhere. Not a new idea I know, but whilst I'm sure people would still import meat, it may be more expensive to buy and eat if imported with responsible taxation, and not be part of the GDP of a country in the same way.

"Buy American produce, to help our healthy, sustainable American farmers" - what's not to like about that statement!? I hope it's not a pipe dream, and bodies like Congress and the EU can finally see sense on these two issues soon.

[StarchHEFP]

I think is cruel for members of this group to participate in poor-shaming. Unless you have been poor enough to need and use the SNAP program, you should not deride those who are. If doctors and physicians, nutritionists, and other healthcare professionals with their large salaries and multiple years of education are not knowledgeable enough to know how to correctly feed the human body, why should you expect poorly and under-educated poor people to know about nutrition?

Shame on you for poor shaming!

I apologize if this thread was perceived as "poor shaming" as I thought the discussion here was very productive and respectful. Being an immigrant, we didn't come in dire poverty but had limited resources in the beginning. I remember eating a lot of rice, lentils, peas and potatoes, and chicken was only a few times per year. What the intent was that the food program (SNAP) does not have someone's best interest behind it, but every time groups try to "reform" SNAP it is met with vehement opposition. It puzzles me to think why are they covering things like sugar sweetened beverages when it is supposed to be a "supplemental NUTRITION assistance program" and there is no nutritive value in what people are consuming in SNAP.

I had a very productive meeting with the representative from the public health department, and she was very interested to hear about plant-based diets, and what groups like PPN are doing to bring plant-based ready to serve meals (at cost) to underprivileged communities. I know it is very important to be humble, empathetic especially when dealing with sensitive issues like poverty and I'm sorry if it came across as elitist. I find McDougallers to be the opposite of elitist because what they eat is basic subsistence food the way it has been eaten through world wars, and the great depression. In lean times, starch is the most bang for the buck.

As far as what to feed the human body, I am very humble and acknowledge that what I have learned in residency and med school has been all wrong. I rely on the grandmothers/grandfathers of the underprivileged to tell the younger folks how to stretch a dollar and to live simply and healthfully, because about 60-70 years ago without government programs, people ate a lot of rice, beans, potatoes, greens, and oatmeal. People had their own gardens if they had the room and land. There was no processed food or fast food, and no supplemental nutrition assistance program. I'm not an advocate of doing away with SNAP (although current leadership might drastically reduce it) but rather, I'm a fan of making SNAP policy match at the very least the healthy eating plate approved by the USDA, in which there is no place for junk foods and soda.

Thank you for your attention, and for keeping us humble.

[katgirl55]

I think is cruel for members of this group to participate in poor-shaming. Unless you have been poor enough to need and use the SNAP program, you should not deride those who are. If doctors and physicians, nutritionists, and other healthcare professionals with their large salaries and multiple years of education are not knowledgeable enough to know how to correctly feed the human body, why should you expect poorly and under-educated poor people to know about nutrition?

Shame on you for poor shaming!

I hope that my posts were not perceived as poor shaming. I spent my 20s very poor, and was the recipient of benefits for a short time. I got back on my feet, but would never look down my nose at those who need help.