SNAP benefits / what most people buy

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SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby StarchHEFP » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:54 pm

What is wrong with this picture? Someone help me out. I don't see fruits, veggies, whole intact grains or legumes here. And we are all paying twice - once for people to buy this food and second - for fixing the illnesses caused by this junk food.

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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby mountain » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:22 pm

Now what did Einstein say:
" Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former"
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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby f1jim » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:04 am

The sad part is many of the top items in the SNAP group are rather expensive as well as being a nutritional nightmare. We must furnish education along with these benefits. Recipients would save serious money substituting healthy items for the crap. Healthy eating is a win-win. But you have to know this to take advantage. We'd be better off giving away potatoes, beans and rice and scrapping the existing system. All we are doing is letting these people commit slow suicide.
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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby MINNIE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:23 am

It's pretty scary!


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/foo ... ce7aaadea0
:cry:

I don't buy anything on either list, except berries. Or potatoes, but they lump them with eggs and muffins as one item. Must be fast food "breakfasts"?
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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby patty » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:37 am

Every institution casts a shadow. There is a Native American Indian story about the lizard and the snake. The lizard is lying in shade under a rock and the snake asks the lizard if he could join him to get out of hot sun. The lizard agrees knowing the snake thinks the lizard was just dreaming under the coolness of the rock. The fact was the lizard just watched the snake finish its meal and when the snake awakens he will be far gone. That is true with government each individual has to self-govern. Self-Care is the best care. Dr McDougall without charge, provides the data, information and interactive forums where that is possible. Food and money stop being musical chairs, there is enough Satity from Starch for everyone to think it through. Bacteria created the first World Wide Web.

Aloha, patty
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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby StarchHEFP » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:03 am

f1jim wrote:The sad part is many of the top items in the SNAP group are rather expensive as well as being a nutritional nightmare. We must furnish education along with these benefits. Recipients would save serious money substituting healthy items for the crap. Healthy eating is a win-win. But you have to know this to take advantage. We'd be better off giving away potatoes, beans and rice and scrapping the existing system. All we are doing is letting these people commit slow suicide.
f1jim


PCRM, being right in Washington DC has tried many many times for years and years to impact the SNAP program, and each time, the louder voices and bigger bribery (I mean lobbying) of the junk food / GMO companies like monsanto / beverage companies / meat / dairy industries always win. Any attempt at regulation is labelled as trying to limit what poor people eat because America's beverage and junk food companies are "feeding America [crap]" - brackets are my addition.

It's all very very sad, this is why we have such a financial bind, and such high healthcare costs. In Illinois, about 1/2 of children are on Medicaid, and they all are consuming the crap listed above.
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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby katgirl55 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:47 am

f1jim wrote:The sad part is many of the top items in the SNAP group are rather expensive as well as being a nutritional nightmare. We must furnish education along with these benefits. Recipients would save serious money substituting healthy items for the crap. Healthy eating is a win-win. But you have to know this to take advantage. We'd be better off giving away potatoes, beans and rice and scrapping the existing system. All we are doing is letting these people commit slow suicide.
f1jim


There is something called SNAP-Ed which seeks to provide nutritional education and resources to those receiving benefits.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-education-snap-ed

Better still would be to ban sodas from being eligible to buy with SNAP benefits.
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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby StarchHEFP » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:33 pm

katgirl55 wrote:
f1jim wrote:The sad part is many of the top items in the SNAP group are rather expensive as well as being a nutritional nightmare. We must furnish education along with these benefits. Recipients would save serious money substituting healthy items for the crap. Healthy eating is a win-win. But you have to know this to take advantage. We'd be better off giving away potatoes, beans and rice and scrapping the existing system. All we are doing is letting these people commit slow suicide.
f1jim


There is something called SNAP-Ed which seeks to provide nutritional education and resources to those receiving benefits.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-education-snap-ed

Better still would be to ban sodas from being eligible to buy with SNAP benefits.


Thanks for this; I was not aware of this site. This site is still going through the same antiquated stuff, listing "milk" as the first place to click. http://www.fns.usda.gov/core-nutrition/core-nutrition-messages

However, it's a learning thing that the plant-based community SHOULD come together, and offer an alternative SNAP-Ed website for those interested in stretching their dollars even further and x'ing out dairy from their shopping cart. Also there are initiatives to make fruits / veggies worth DOUBLE on SNAP benefits, and also a movement by Plant Pure to have healthy, plant-based meals provided AT COST (which ends up being under $3 per meal) to SNAP recipients because many don't have the skills or the means to cook from scratch.
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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby Gwen » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:32 pm

I run my church's food pantry, so we see a lot of people who receive SNAP benefits. From what I see, SNAP needs to be able to be used for paper products, like toilet paper, and feminine hygiene products.
What's a person supposed to do....be able to eat, but not be able to get hygiene items?
Quit the SODA, add the PAPER!!
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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby SweetPea » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:40 pm

What I see are almost identical expenditures in most categories for all households, with slightly greater purchasing of soda, beef, frozen snacks, and infant formula in households utilizing SNAP. This doesn't seem unusual to me: people are generally eating the same foods all around the country. The greater problem to me is how to inspire and educate everyone to eat healthier in a way that doesn’t threaten the food industry so much that it fires back with zero compromise. I personally don’t think further restricting how people spend their grocery dollars on SNAP will accomplish that.

I’ve been blessed to live near well-supplied supermarkets for most of my life, while I’ve visited plenty others in less economically robust areas that are tiny, not fully stocked, have limited and unpredictable hours, and carry little fresh produce or items of quality—though they may be inexpensive, which helps ensure stores can sell their products and not take an unrecoverable hit when they don’t. Grocery stores have tight margins and if they can’t sell their wares and eventually close up shop, the community will be far worse off. People are often doing the best they can given the circumstances. If we lived in Flint MI, we would probably also be drinking soda for the time being. Not everyone has consistently safe water and almost no one has good-tasting water these days.

These are complex issues with economic, social, and educational aspects tugging at the politics on all sides. I think listening and understanding more can lead to greater trust and hopefully, some effective change and compromise. For example, PCRM has funded billboards taking aim at obese cheese eaters: yet all a congressperson has to do is show those ads to their constituents to help determine which way the wind is blowing...and one can understand why a dairy farmer helping provide the few hundred or thousand jobs left in a region will entreat their representative to come down on the side of business, because in that case it often translates to immediate survival for many on the brink of poverty. My understanding is that many farmers are often on contract and in debt, while other players in agribusiness (lobbyists, processors, food companies, etc) tend to be more affluent and hold more of the power. It’s not easy to set limits in one area of agribusiness without hurting others, potentially others whose communities are much more vulnerable. And those well-heeled commuters viewing the ads will likely brush it off, feeling relatively unaffected, hoping their organic cheese from grass-fed, free-range, antibiotic-free moo-moos is somehow healthier! What’s more, many thin people eat cheese and ice-cream, and many overweight vegans don’t.

Which begs the question, who is PCRM really reaching and educating in this way? To me it seems they are preaching to a very passionate, but tiny, choir—while possibly alienating everyone else. I’m disappointed in the approach and tone they’re taking with SNAP in particular: hunger is hunger and if you’ve been there, you really don’t need the added insult of being scolded for the foods you’re buying (while the rest of the country freely indulges with no such chastisement). Reframing the issue as being about nutrients seems rather callous to me when folks are having a hard time just getting access to food and water. While healthy basic foods are a wonderful idea, I’d like to see them promoted for *everyone,* along with substantive cooking-skills classes. (What might really help are a few superstars in those videos with no apparent influence of the government or industry;). And I can only speak for our area, but our local food bank is frequently running out of food, much of it basic plant-based fare: instant potatoes, oatmeal, pancake mix, bean chili, applesauce, ketchup & mustard, salt & pepper, fruit juice, fruit, vegetables, and so on. There are ways to support plant-based options without creating such tension about the other options. I think we have to find those ways because I just am not seeing meat and dairy and oil disappearing any time soon.

The message has to be simple, but also accurate and with deeper understanding. This path is not a cakewalk. Most of us have been at this so long, we may forget. Dr. McDougall has spoken of the fear that people have when contemplating a diet change. And think how much we emphasize here that it's not a diet--it's a lifestyle change, which is even more overwhelming to contemplate, let alone implement. It involves new ways of shopping, cooking, socializing/connecting with others, even in our own families—it’s much more than just a change in what we eat. These are not small potatoes. :) Most of us have accomplished this over years of fine-tuning.

While all of us have worked diligently to become healthier, I think we also have to acknowledge what truly propelled us here (for many, perhaps serious illness or the fear of it), as well as what luck and blessings were involved, including the support we likely received. Just having (high-speed) internet access and time to find this website--let alone research the plan and participate--is an autonomous luxury that many on SNAP don't have.

So many of us have experienced the disappointment and frustration of trying countless types of diets, only to end up back where we began or in a worse predicament. It can be hard to trust those who promise “this time, it’s real,” or try to convince us to set ourselves up as dietary oddballs when the thing we need most at the moment is to feel a sense of security and that we can succeed in the mainstream. We might see that as self-deluding or weak, but I believe it’s understandably and intuitively self-protective. We’ve almost all been there in one way or another.

Learning how to appeal to the majority of people—who we also love, who also help light the world in their own ways, who also help make the world better for us—is important. Learning how to truly, effectively reach them is critical. I agree that education is key. I’m fascinated by nudge theory, particularly regarding how many people who achieve their goals apply it to their daily lives. I also love how it accepts the reality of where people are as part of the matrix for their learning.

On a societal level, what professionals like StarchHEFP, Jeff Novick, and TerriNC do seems precious to me. Personally, I think one of the best things that could happen would be for more healthy plant-based professionals to spread the word with care and depth one-on-one in their work, whatever that may be.

Truly, we all play a part, whatever, however we choose. Perhaps all we can do sometimes is plant a seed and be willing to meet people where they are. And offer gentle nudges when the timing seems right.

StarchHEFP, I'm so glad you're doing what you do. Don't forget to take care of yourself, too.
~♥~ It's never too late to go after what you want. ~♥~
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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby StarchHEFP » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:51 am

Sweet Pea, thank you for your very detailed post and kind words to me. I agree with some of PCRM's messaging not being very elegant, and I think more recently they are getting away from the "fat shaming" because when 2/3 of Americans are overweight, it does not help their cause. I know Dr. McDougall's guilty of some "fat shaming" also and I know where he's coming from and his intent but still people feel burned with those kinds of messages. You can attract more flies with honey, right?

A good movement is PlantPure Nation who is trying to bring ready made meals to the SNAP and the poor population. Stay tuned, they are rolling it out within 1 year. They are looking for centralized distribution channels within impoverished communities. It is the hope once people taste healthy and delicious plant based meals they might start to cook them. What many are looking for is convenience and PPN is offering that. You're right we have to be sensitive to the limitations and needs, and also the challenges with education, economics. People cling to what makes them comfortable like soda / snacks, and what people around them are doing, like eating tamales made with pork and lard, and cupcakes and cakes. In MY OWN office, one of my staff is on SNAP, has 5 children, has diabetes, and I know for a fact buys meat, cheese, junk foods, and cupcakes. Her OWN doctor knows she works for a "vegan" doctor, and told her, why doesn't she do it too? I even offered free help to her anytime she wants to meet with me, but she declined. In fact, she complained about the fact that I keep trying to "make everyone vegan" and "spend too much time". To her credit, I do see that she eats an apple or an orange every now and then, but more commonly I see my staff ordering out from their favorite restaurants. I make much more money, and I don't spend it on eating out like they do.

I have worked with numerous patients on SNAP, trying to show them how they can save LOADS of money by buying McDougall-type meals, like potatoes, rice, lentils. $6 = 10 lb. lentils which goes a long way. 20 lbs. rice is cheap, as are carrots, celery, pinto beans, romaine lettuce, kale, tomatoes, and many other healthy foods. I've printed out 30-40 pages from Dr. McDougall and handed it to patients. All with extremely little success. No one seems to have the solution, but I think providing cheap, ready to eat meals in the same fashion as stouffers' or hungry man or whatever it's called is probably the way to go.

First, we have to be compassionate and realize that these folks are suffering. People may shoot me but I'm all for $15 wage, and in fact their pay is about that which is above what they could make at any other job at their level.

We can't rely on THEM to buy healthy food, but we can change economic policies. SNAP stands for SUPPLEMENTAL nutrition assistance program, and was never meant to be 100% of what they need. If it's SUPPLEMENTAL, then why does it cover chips and soda which aren't essential nutrients? It's because the industry wants it that way. And I KNOW that some of these smaller convenience stores, when they want booze or cigs, will charge up one item, and hand the customer the illicit item. That's why they're so popular in these neighborhoods.

Unless somehow the policy makers connect the health detriments and exorbitant health costs with their food policy, nothing will change. If they want lower Medicaid / Medicare spending, they need to start in people's kitchens and get the sugar, processed, meat, and dairy OUT and other stuff IN. We know the food guidelines pretty much guide SNAP, and it defies logic to see why dairy is still on the list of healthy foods, given what we know. Ideally, SNAP would cover only staples, like rice, beans, pasta, and sauce, veggies, fruit, etc. And if people want those unhealthy foods, they should spend THEIR OWN money on it, not all of ours.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but I was careful to choose my words. Please give me feedback if you found this post offensive.
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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby MINNIE » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:40 am

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but I was careful to choose my words. Please give me feedback if you found this post offensive.


I'm not :). That was very well-written and I deeply sympathize with your situation. You are in the vanguard of a new consciousness about food and health, and that means being a target for the inevitable backlash.

Thank you for being there. I am very healthy now, but if I ever need a doctor I hope I can find someone like you!

I have a few thoughts about poor people who cannot get, or will not try to get, healthful food. I've been poor in the past , and had to stretch my money as far as I could. I know how hard it can be. Now I am well-off and can donate to food pantries. I see the kinds of food that people choose to take home, and it really is tragic. The odd thing is that they, and nearly everyone else in our "busy" society, falsely assumes the existence of one huge barrier to healthy eating.

That is the perception that it is difficult to cook real food. It takes too much time, it takes special kitchen equipment. It takes esoteric knowledge of food chemistry. It has to look like some TV "eatertainment" chef prepared a picture perfect plate!

So many Americans, rich and poor, really believe this. (I'll admit I believed it myself, pre- McDougall).

Thus the prevalence of pre-cooked meals and fast food takeouts.

This is really shocking, as it is totally contrary to fact.

Poor people around the world have always been able to make nutritious food with very low technology. Until my parents generation, everyone in my family had cooked over wood stoves, hearths or open fires. They ate mostly grains, beans and vegetables, made interesting with herbs and spices.. They had very little time or money for any complicated food preparation. Yet, when basic food was available, they could eat well and stay healthy.

I know that many of the food pantry customers in my city are Hispanic and Hmong. Others are rural poor people who had to come to the city to find work. The older people in these families still know how to cook rice, beans and vegetables. The American-born children of immigrants, and the kids of rural poor people, only know about fast food and junk.

The idea of cooking real food seems ridiculous and impossible, give when they currently know.

I think some way of educating people about simple cooking with cheap basic ingredients would be immensely helpful. Nobody seems to be doing it here, but I have hopes that this can happen.
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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby f1jim » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:27 am

I don't mean to sound condescending but it's pretty late in the game to try to teach adults cooking skills many don't want to learn.
I think a brief flyer when they apply for benefits and stretching their dollars and maximizing nutrition would be helpful.
But I think ALL kids should have to go through a "life skills" course in school. It would be a course that focused on basic day to day skills to get through life. Many used to get these skills in the service or in homemaking classes but both are not a part of everyday lives anymore. Basics like cooking with staple foods. Basic hygiene. Maintaining clothing. Balancing a checkbook. (ok maybe that one is too dated)
Cooking a pot of beans or a container of rice should be common knowledge. We insist kids learn second languages but not survival basics? Like any good sports team having troubles some times you have to go back to basics.
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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby bbq » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:47 am

Teach them how to cook one thing, and then serve them another thanks to the National School Lunch Program:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/NSLPFactSheet.pdf
http://www.fns.usda.gov/nslp/national-school-lunch-program-nslp

Cognitive dissonance to the max, that could be lots of fun for such young minds to get both red pill and blue pill simultaneously IMHO.
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Re: SNAP benefits / what most people buy

Postby Dougalling » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:53 am

Hi

Take a look at Detroit. Downtown detroit has no major grocery store. They have some mom and pop shops and corner store chains. It's not easy for them to get groceries. Major grocery stores are all in the suburbs.

I'm sure many low income neighbourhoods across the country have the same problem.
Go into a 7-11 for milk and you come out with a bagful of junky stuff with the milk.

Things are changing. Do a Sole Food Street Farm and Street Farm search.
Last edited by Dougalling on Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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