Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

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Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby Truth101 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:53 am

Dear Reader,

I'm here to know the truth and I want to live the best and most healthy life possible.

I've watched the Forks Over Knives documentary and stopped eating meat and dairy.
I want a healthy long life, have extra energy, no animal suffering and be better for our world.

I did feel extra energy, I think because I'm eating more healthy fruits and vegetables.

But now I saw this scientific study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27882862
Full study: http://www.foodandnutritionresearch.net/index.php/fnr/article/view/32527

So what is trustable? Who is right? I'd love to eat my cheese and drink my milk.
But do Vegans live longer, have better skin, reduced risk of heart disease etc.
Or can I just be a vegetarian and only eat a whole plant based diet + dairy?

I don't understand what to do anymore, can you guys help me out?

Thank You,
Romano
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby MINNIE » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:13 am

Many experts (and pseudo-experts) have many opinions:). I happen to think that the plant-based diet advised by Dr. McDougall has enough science behind it to be taken seriously. By me. You are of course free to disagree

If you haven't already done this, you might want to read through the "Education" section of this website. This includes most of the information from Dr. McDougall's books, and it is free.

But ultimately, your own experience will be the best guide.

Personally, I know that dairy foods were bad for me, as I have severe lactose intolerance. Quitting dairy greatly improved my health. I know that an oil-free diet brought my cholesterol down by more than 100 points. I know that a plant-based whole food diet keeps me thin and energetic.

In this matter, I had tried different ways of eating and found that this one works best. For me.

You have nothing to lose by trying it for a while and seeing what happens . If you don't like the results, you can always try something else.

Best wishes for your improved health, however you decide to pursue it!
Last edited by MINNIE on Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby bbq » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:14 am

Competing interests and funding wrote:Tanja Kongerslev Thorning has no conflicts of interest to declare. Anne Raben is recipient of research funding from the Dairy Research Institute, Rosemont, IL, USA and the Danish Agriculture & Food Council.Tine Tholstrup is recipient of research grants from the Danish Dairy Research Foundation and the Dairy Research Institute, Rosemont, IL. The sponsors had no role in design and conduct of the studies, data collection and analysis, interpretation of the data, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscripts. Sabita S. Soedamah-Muthu received funding from the Global Dairy Platform, Dairy Research Institute and Dairy Australia for meta-analyses on cheese and blood lipids and on dairy and mortality. The sponsors had no role in design and conduct of the meta-analyses, data collection and analysis, interpretation of the data, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscripts. Ian Givens is recipient of research grants from UK Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council (BBSRC), UK Medical Research Council (MRC), Arla Foods UK, AAK-UK (both in kind), The Barham Benevolent Foundation, Volac UK, DSM Switzerland and Global Dairy Platform. He is a consultant for The Bio-competence Centre of Healthy Dairy Products, Tartu, Estonia, and in the recent past for The Dairy Council (London). Arne Astrup is recipient of research grants from Arla Foods, DK; Danish Dairy Research Foundation; Global Dairy Platform; Danish Agriculture & Food Council; GEIE European Milk Forum, France. He is member of advisory boards for Dutch Beer Knowledge Institute, NL; IKEA, SV; Lucozade Ribena Suntory Ltd, UK; McCain Foods Limited, USA; McDonald’s, USA; Weight Watchers, USA. He is a consultant for Nestlé Research Center, Switzerland; Nongfu Spring Water, China. Astrup receives honoraria as Associate Editor of American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, and for membership of the Editorial Boards of Annals of Nutrition and Metabolism and Annual Review of Nutrition. He is recipient of travel expenses and/or modest honoraria (<$2,000) for lectures given at meetings supported by corporate sponsors. He received financial support from dairy organisations for attendance at the Eurofed Lipids Congress (2014) in France and the meeting of The Federation of European Nutrition Societies (2015) in Germany.
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby katgirl55 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:58 am

Why not try it and find out how it affects you? No scientific study in the world is worth more than your own personal experience. How about if a study came out saying too much water can kill you? Would you quit drinking water? That study would be factual, but common sense should prevail.
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby colonyofcells » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:20 pm

Most studies are done on people eating the standard american diet which is very unhealthy so you can get results like dairy is helping these unhealthy eaters (bec they do not eat vegetables), coffee is helping these unhealthy eaters (bec they do not eat vegetables), etc. Half of the planet does not use dairy and most of these groups enjoy longevity. It is better to look at traditional diets around the planet rather than on studies of people eating the unhealthy standard american diet. The Dr Mcdougall diet is based on the healthy traditional diets and is a veganized version of the healthy traditional diets and just take b12 supplements. Lots of free information on the website on how to start the dr mcdougall diet :
https://www.drmcdougall.com/2014/06/30/food-poisoning/
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby Franchesca_S. » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:28 pm

For me an early pivotal moment was reading that casein is a perfect cancer cell-growing medium. Milk is not just milk in your glass, it is in most processed foods.

Try it for a month. See how you feel, get a cholesterol check. You'll be amazed.

FS
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby GeoffreyLevens » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:36 pm

Yes, give it a try! And if you think dairy does not cause suffering you might want to look more deeply into milk production. Verrrrry creepy really unless you get backyard, small farm product only and even then, the only way we get the milk is to basically steal it from the baby cows. I worked in dairy at monastery I lived in and both babies and mothers were NOT happy about it!
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby bbq » Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:02 pm

Even if journalists are doing their due diligence, they still run the risk of deceiving their readers, due to spin present in the medical journals themselves.
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/spin-doctors-how-the-media-reports-on-medicine/

Currently browsing posts about: Conflicts-of-interest
http://www.foodpolitics.com/tag/conflicts-of-interest/

Conflicts of interest in nutrition research: recent examples
http://www.foodpolitics.com/2015/03/conflicts-of-interest-in-nutrition-research-recent-examples/
In each of these cases, the sponsors got what they paid for. Recent sponsored studies have not come to conclusions contrary to the interests of the sponsor.

Coincidence?

You decide.
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby f1jim » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:32 am

When in doubt rely on the obvious but overlooked concepts of animal nutrition. No other creature consumes milk past the age of weaning. No other animal consumes the milk of another species. Common sense says human milk is best for human infants. No milk is right for animals past the age of weaning. In fact, most mothers will push away young animals past a certain age. Common sense can be a difficult concept when overcome by outside pressures.
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While adopting this diet and lifestyle program I have reversed my heart disease, high cholesterol, hypertension, and lost 54 lbs. You can follow my story at https://www.drmcdougall.com/james-brown/
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby Dougalling » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:08 am

Hello

If you want to live the healthiest life then eating a whole food plant based diet is the way to go.
No added oil, no added sugar, no added salt.
Read ... Dr McDougall, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Campbell, Dr Campbell, Dr Barnard, Dr Greger, Dr Klaper, Dr Fuhrman, Dr Ornish, Dr Williams, etc etc etc

If you miss dairy there are plenty of whole food plant based recipes to replace cheese, cream, milk.
Check out the Moxarella and Paprika Cheez recipes.
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby healthyvegan » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:24 am

this study was not a study. it was a pay day to combine dairy backed studies into a nice package for consumers. pay those people the same for the opposite & see what you get... its like lawyers. will represent who is every paying. its not science
mrmrsvegan.com free whole starch low fat cookbook #wslf
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby GeoffreyLevens » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:39 am

f1jim wrote:No other animal consumes the milk of another species.

I am NOT a fan of diary but just for accuracy and mostly just for fun

Why Animals "Adopt" Others, Including Different Species
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby barryoilbegone » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:50 pm

As somebody who has submitted to journals myself, and knows something about scientific guidelines, how this “article” ever got past the peer reviewers I have to wonder. This is a sloppy, incredibly biased meta-review with a number of scientific inaccuracies littered throughout. These inaccuracies would take a long time to write and point out here (I hope Dr McD if you're watching, this will be commented on in a newsletter to come!). However, I’ll try and summarize overall why, in a few examples, the authors are able to come up with spouting BS in their conclusions.

Take one of their passages – first example:


“CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE
Low-fat, calcium-rich dairy products are generally considered to lower blood pressure. This was supported by a meta-analysis of six observational studies, whereas no association was found with intake of high-fat dairy products.”

If you compare low fat products compared to high fat dairy products (or actually, pretty much high fat ANYTHING) then yes, you will get lower blood pressure. Problem is, this does not mean your lifetime blood pressure is low! What’s the baseline for what healthy (low) blood pressure ought to be? If we are told that (don’t count on these authors doing that, that would require them to assess the totality of scientific evidence), then you would stand a chance of getting some scientifically valid thinking.

Second example:

“When compared to habitual diet with a lower total and saturated fat content (33), or compared to diets with lower total fat content but higher content of high-GI carbohydrates (34, 35), a high intake of cheese was found not to increase LDL-cholesterol.”

Again, compare with a dodgy baseline (notice the terms “lower total" and "lower total fat content” – and not specifying as to what this means) then yes it won’t probably increase. That’s partly because the average Joe's LDL cholesterol level is already far too high in the first place!

My favourite quote from the authors that summarizes how poor their logic is at times:

“Dairy is an essential part of the food culture in the Nordic countries; thus, inclusion of milk and dairy products in the diet may be natural for many Nordic individuals”.

Then this logic would also follow:

“Murder is an essential part of the culture in North American countries; thus, inclusion of murder in people’s behavior may be natural for these countries … :D


Conflicts of interest - yes, very possibly– look at the dairy funding for the authors, which bbq has posted out. But that’s not so much an issue as the balls the authors have got to put this piece into print, misleading the public further: consumers, media, and other scientists alike. Have to agree with healthyvegan - it’s another deceptive, paid advert for the dairy industry - from authors who seem to have fallen down the bandwagon of self-justification, throwing science out the window to do it.
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby bbq » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:46 pm

Effect of Cheese on Cardiovascular Risk (ECCA)
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01739153
Collaborators (More like conspirators?) wrote:The Danish Dairy Research Foundation, Denmark
Dairy Research Institute
Dairy Farmers of Canada
Centre National Interprofessionel de l'Economie Laitière
Dairy Australia
Nederlandse Zuivel Organisatie
Experimental: CARB diet wrote:The CARB diet will be a low-fat diet where cheese is replaced by starchy carbohydrates and lean meat. The CARB diet will have the same protein content (15 E%) and quality as the CHEESE and MEAT diet but a lower fat content (approx. 25 E%) and a correspondingly higher carbohydrate content (approx. 60 E%).
25% of calories were coming from fat, oh well.

Diets with high-fat cheese, high-fat meat, or carbohydrate on cardiovascular risk markers in overweight postmenopausal women: a randomized crossover trial
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/102/3/573.long

As usual pretty much the same people were paid to do the dirty work IMHO.
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Re: Milk & Dairy - Scientific Evidence That It's Not Bad

Postby MINNIE » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:08 pm

Most of the world's adult human population is lactose intolerant, some more than others.
Many cultures around the world did not consume dairy products as part of their traditional diets (e.g. Native Americans, East Asians, Polynesians).


When they do adopt the typical Western diet, , they suffer health problems caused by dairy consumption.



Here is some basic information about lactose intolerance
http://www.chemeurope.com/en/encycloped ... rance.html
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