No need for plant-based diet for diabetes, take Jardiance!

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

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Re: No need for plant-based diet for diabetes, take Jardianc

Postby StarchHEFP » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:42 pm

Skip wrote:
StarchHEFP wrote:Should I just give it all up and just write the pill prescriptions and be on my way?

I've been called "too extreme" by other doctors and been told that lifestyle change does not work anyway, and I should be more mainstream and reasonable. I've been told even to tone down my anti-cigarette and anti-alcohol advice as even that's too extreme.
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If I was a doctor in your situation, I would simply give my patients their best options from best to worse and let them decide what they want to do. You can't stop a patient from eating bacon, ham and cheese but you have an oath to help them which should include trying to educate them about food. If they won't change their diet, give them the best pills and procedures options that you think might help them.

For example, suppose the patient is extremely obese and would rather die than change their diet. In a case like this, gastric bypass surgery seems to be a reasonable option.


You're absolutely right about the intent, Skip, but it actually hurts to know someone is being cut when they could "just" change their lifestyle. And especially since I see many complications of bariatric surgery. And add to that fact when the patient's lawyer comes looking for you asking why you didn't try harder for lifestyle change instead of referring them to surgery. No one sues the doctor for staying fat.
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Re: No need for plant-based diet for diabetes, take Jardianc

Postby StarchHEFP » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:44 pm

veg tom wrote:How can 99% of the population be wrong. I think that is the way people think. The way I think is how can people keep making themselves sick. The latest restaurant, the latest food craze is so cool. :roll: We all know [ here] what the truth is.

Thanks for your thoughts Tom.
Remember about the above, Hitler's Nazi Germany. This reticence caused the genocide of Europe. Sometimes the 1% is the right way!
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Re: No need for plant-based diet for diabetes, take Jardianc

Postby StarchHEFP » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:47 pm

patty wrote:
StarchHEFP wrote:Once you know it's the food, your head is in the Tiger's mouth.


You are the best Patty! Love the quote above. You're absolutely right. Thanks for the other inspirational words too.
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Re: No need for plant-based diet for diabetes, take Jardianc

Postby StarchHEFP » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:48 pm

Werner1950 wrote:
StarchHEFP wrote:
pundit999 wrote:Even if you touch just one person, it will be well worth it, Doc.


Thank you for this! Just the kind of inspiring words I needed.


Your presence here inspires all of us!
Stay faithful to what you know.
Someone once said, "...speaking the truth in love"

Love is not real without the truth.
And truth is hard to swallow without love.


Such nice words. I'm touched, thank you for inspiring! I will strive to uphold the truth, and work with loving/kindness.
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Re: No need for plant-based diet for diabetes, take Jardianc

Postby StarchHEFP » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:51 pm

Lesliec1 wrote:How often do you actually reach a patient and change their eating?
I think somehow we just need to match up the informed doctors and the willing patients. I've given up trying to find a doc like you.


Thank you so much Leslie! This reminds me of a quote something like, you may not change the world with 1 person, but for that 1 person, you will change the world. It's extremely rare when I actually reach a patient and change their eating, but many times people do tell me little tidbits like they got rid of dairy after talking to me and their digestion improved; or that they gave up the protein powder because of something I said. I should be happy with small changes in many and big changes in the select few. There are a few search engines, and I've been referred a few by Dr. McDougall's search.
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Re: No need for plant-based diet for diabetes, take Jardianc

Postby StarchHEFP » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:53 pm

pundit999 wrote:Things are changing in a big way. In the just the time I have been on this diet (4.5 years), I have seen real progress.

I just listened to People's Pharmacy today and the whole show was on plant based diet. There were great experts and doctors from reputed places such the Harvard and Standard that were promoting the whole plants diet. Lots of callers were already following the diet.

This information is really getting out. Mainly due to the Internet and social media.

I don't think they can put the jini in the bottle back again.

I do believe this is the future. 50 years from now people will wonder how this information was kept from the general population for so long.


True! But this time, the difference will be that people will also realize, that this is the same truth that has been advocated since the time of the Daniel Fast, Hippocrates and Pythagoras! Thanks for your inspiring words.
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Re: No need for plant-based diet for diabetes, take Jardianc

Postby veg tom » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:06 am

StarchHEFP wrote:
veg tom wrote:How can 99% of the population be wrong. I think that is the way people think. The way I think is how can people keep making themselves sick. The latest restaurant, the latest food craze is so cool. :roll: We all know [ here] what the truth is.

Thanks for your thoughts Tom.
Remember about the above, Hitler's Nazi Germany. This reticence caused the genocide of Europe. Sometimes the 1% is the right way!

Your welcome. I love the smart people here.
A is A
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Re: No need for plant-based diet for diabetes, take Jardianc

Postby Skip » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:09 am

The medical business, like any other business follows the law of supply and demand. If everyone adopted a whole food plant based diet, the demand for the medical community would severely diminish. In a perverse way, doctors should be glad that there are sick patients otherwise there wouldn't be a need for their services.

As Dr. Esselstyn puts it in an interview:

".... if you were a cardiac surgeon, and you were to take your business and hang up your shingle in rural China or the Papua Highlands in New Guinea or the Central Africa or the Tara Humara Indians in Northern Mexico forget it. You better plan on selling pencils."
"The fundamental principle of ethics is reverence for life" Albert Schweitzer
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Re: No need for plant-based diet for diabetes, take Jardianc

Postby patty » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:45 am

Skip wrote:The medical business, like any other business follows the law of supply and demand. If everyone adopted a whole food plant based diet, the demand for the medical community would severely diminish. In a perverse way, doctors should be glad that there are sick patients otherwise there wouldn't be a need for their services.

As Dr. Esselstyn puts it in an interview:

".... if you were a cardiac surgeon, and you were to take your business and hang up your shingle in rural China or the Papua Highlands in New Guinea or the Central Africa or the Tara Humara Indians in Northern Mexico forget it. You better plan on selling pencils."

I love this from:: Biologist Elisabet Sahtouris on learning economics from nature https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpk4UPjmdzU

Transcript
Words ecology and economy comes from ancient Greek roots and ecology is the eco household and so is economy household they both come from the eco but economy is the Eco  nomos which means the law or rules of the household and ecology is the ecos  logos and that's the organization of the household and why would you separate the structure of the household the organization of the household from the way it is run the run of the household has an evolution biologist I have gotten myself involved with economics is because as far as I know economics is about the acquisition and transformation of resources into useful items and then the distribution and the consumption and either did the throwing away or the recycling of those things now in nature it’s always the case of recycling because nature has a zero waste economy it's a closed loop economy with the recycling is not necessary to keep a finite planet involving endlessly new species and ecosystems and things from the same materials basically so if we see that nature has billions of years of experience in this highly efficient and effective closed loop economy then we really have something to learn from that since our economics has been linear economics where nature has been treated not as an eco-system in which we are included as an environment and impersonal it separate from us that has been taken to be a pile of resources for human use and then what we do is we take those resources or high-tech agriculture that has a lot of heat be treat behind it and in that kind of production method 96% of the resources are wasted to start with and then of the 4% that we turned into useful things then there usually thrown into the dumpster afterwards so we have 99+ percent waste in our economy and that's because we've never had a science of economics we’ve to learn economics from nature another thing that's very interesting to do is supposed to look at your body's economics and my favorite way of telling this is to say imagine that the northern industrial organs are above the diaphragm and that they have the ownership of the rest of the body so that the material blood cells that form and bones and then the heart lung system gets into play in the lungs cleanup their blood and oxygen is added to the blood and then the heart distribution center announces what the body price for blood is and you ship the blood only to those organs that can afford it so you can see very quickly that this kind of an ownership and pricing system would not work very well and healthy living system in fact some of those very bones that were mined if you think of them as the countries in which we do a lot of mining might not be able to afford the finished product so there's a lot to learn from nature about economics in a really highly developed economy. I believe the role of money will be the role of that currency called dennison triphosphate in your own body in yourselves where the money is issued in order to make the transactions happen and it is never repaid it's issued over and over depending on how much you need but it's a disappearing currency it works to make a transaction happen then it's not there anymore so basically the highest evolution of the economy would have that kind of a gifted currency


Once the doctors recognizes themselves in their projections they will manifest within a undescribable reality of not 2.

Aloha, patty
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Re: No need for plant-based diet for diabetes, take Jardianc

Postby StarchHEFP » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:50 am

Skip wrote:The medical business, like any other business follows the law of supply and demand. If everyone adopted a whole food plant based diet, the demand for the medical community would severely diminish. In a perverse way, doctors should be glad that there are sick patients otherwise there wouldn't be a need for their services.

As Dr. Esselstyn puts it in an interview:

".... if you were a cardiac surgeon, and you were to take your business and hang up your shingle in rural China or the Papua Highlands in New Guinea or the Central Africa or the Tara Humara Indians in Northern Mexico forget it. You better plan on selling pencils."


Very interesting thoughts. Another way to look at is, I keep getting information about how the population of the US is getting older and sicker, and how we will have a dire short supply of physicians to take care of them, especially primary care and "geriatrics". See http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/healthworkforce/supplydemand/usworkforce/primarycare/

Another solution to this problem of "undersupply" of doctors is to DECREASE the demand for healthcare services by actually helping people to be healthy! Then we wouldn't need to train so many doctors. Our government is so perverse isn't it? Promoting meat and dairy, literally dumping cheese surplus onto schoolchildren and the public, trying to figure out ways to stuff cheese into everything, even the pizza crust! Meanwhile complaining about rising healthcare costs. Shouldn't the government be subsidizing pulses, grains fruits and vegetables that are healthy? Shouldn't the SNAP program which is more than 10% of the American public, and the most vulnerable, not allow junk food and soda? No one is calling them out on this, and the Surgeon General is limited to talking about exercise as if exercise is going to reverse the effects of a poor diet.

I always joke that plant-based patients make the worst patients. The only time when they come to see me is either for a check up every couple years, pregnancy, or when they get injured doing high intensity activities! :) With the future of reimbursement for doctors, this suddenly will become more profitable because the ins. co will pay the doctor to keep patients healthy, not sick! Suddenly it pays to spend more time preventing diabetes and heart disease for a health system. We just don't have the cooperation of politicians. Politicians are a sick bunch themselves, always being wined, dined, and bribed while their constituents are suffering. Who will they listen to? The corporations with $$$ or the poor constituents who can't afford time to meet with them, and who can't even see them because they don't have a bunch of Benjamins stuffed in their pockets to hand them under the table?
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Re: No need for plant-based diet for diabetes, take Jardianc

Postby StarchHEFP » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:00 am

Skip wrote:The medical business, like any other business follows the law of supply and demand. If everyone adopted a whole food plant based diet, the demand for the medical community would severely diminish. In a perverse way, doctors should be glad that there are sick patients otherwise there wouldn't be a need for their services.

As Dr. Esselstyn puts it in an interview:

".... if you were a cardiac surgeon, and you were to take your business and hang up your shingle in rural China or the Papua Highlands in New Guinea or the Central Africa or the Tara Humara Indians in Northern Mexico forget it. You better plan on selling pencils."


The above is absolutely right. What we have is not a "doctor shortage" we have a "sick people oversupply"! If 40-50% of chronic disease is preventable, we are doing it wrong! There are many initiatives that have come out for "disease management" like the Medicare and insurance programs, none of them work at all! The biggest thing to go after, is cigarette smoking. Why, in this country, do 20% of people continue to smoke? It's just a symptom that people simply don't value their lives, health, and well-being. This is the same reason that there is so much alcoholism, drug abuse, and unhealthy eating. I can bang the drum all I want in my office, but my impact is still very small. Do you want to know what the success rate of quitting smoking is? A mere 5%. For changing food habits, one of my patients put it correctly when he said it's easier to change someone's religion than to change their eating habits.

I guess we are all part of a cult here aren't we?

Maybe we should use reverse psychology, and tell patients I dare you to change your diet, you will be really bad-ass and as your doctor you probably will cost me money by getting healthy. I dare you to quit smoking, bet you can't do it! And as far as drinking, you're even "cooler" and rebellious if you don't drink!
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