Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

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Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby choufleur » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:30 am

Hi,
I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. I'm looking for some helpful tips on how to respond to questions/statements about the way I/we eat. I've been a WFPB eater for several years now and have most likely alienated a few people by perhaps being too preachy/condescending about the virtues of this way of eating in the beginning. None of my family or friends eat this way and I've learned it's better for me not to talk to people about it and let everyone do their own thing.

Things have recently changed since I had a baby last year. Now people seem to be more interested in how I eat and plan on feeding my daughter. My partner, who is not a full-time dad (complicated situation, he doesn't live with us) is French and does not eat this way at all. In fact we've already gotten into several arguments about how we'll raise our daughter. Even though he has zero nutritional education (but is a scientist so has a research background), he refuses to believe any so-called facts I try to tell him since "anyone can write a book."

We've agreed to disagree for now. I'm spending this month in France with my partner's parents, who, while well-meaning, likely think the way I eat is bizarre. They've started to ask some questions and make statements, and instead of giving vague answers like I usually do, I'm wondering if it would be better to try to reply to them in a way that gives them some information, without being preachy or making them feel bad about their eating habits. They are genuinely nice people and I think curious about why I eat this way (though they are definitely not convinced). Some examples of questions/statements I've received:

Them: Why don't you eat cheese?
Me: I don't like cheese and it doesn't agree with me. [example of my usual non-confrontational answer]
Them: But cheese is very good for you, and there are nutrients in cheese.

On my partner trying to give the baby a piece of croissant.
Me: Please don't give that to her. It's not good for her.
BF: What is not good for her?
Me: There is tons of butter in it, for one thing.
BF: Butter is not bad for you.

Me (on eating white pasta they prepared): I generally try to make only whole grain pasta and brown rice at home. It has more fiber in it.
Them: But the Italians eat this kind of fresh pasta [white pasta] and it is The Best.

Them: Aren't you worried about missing some vitamins if you don't eat meat or fish? Like B12?
Me: I take a multivitamin to cover B12.

I am not very good at debating and prefer books/movies to do the talking for me, but like I said, I was thinking it might be nice to plant a few seeds now, and possibly get some support for feeding my baby and myself this way. Or maybe it's not a good idea, since I've already gotten myself into trouble trying to talk to people about it in the past?
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby GeoffreyLevens » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:06 am

My response is K.I.S.S. for example:

"Why don't you eat cheese?"
"I don't really like it."
"But it is good for you."
"I just don't like it."

"Aren't you worried about B12?"
"No, I take supplement."

Partner trying to give the baby a piece of croissant.
Me: Please don't give that to her. It's not good for her.
BF: What is not good for her?
Me: There is tons of butter in it, for one thing.
BF: Butter is not bad for you.
You: Please do not give that to her. I would rather you didn't

And if he persists that tells you a lot about his character and how much he respects your wishes!
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby JuicerJohn » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:19 am

If your partner has a research background, he is not going to be convinced by The Starch Solution or a YouTube video. But what about a book like The China Study. This is not a book of opinion, but draws heavily from a long term scientific study. If he is being honest, he should at least read it.
Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. John 14:6
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby roundcoconut » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:54 am

Hmmm. All I can say to you, is that the main thing I would encourage you to start doing, is not argue over absolutes. If someone asks your opinion, give it to them, in a way that processes nicel for most people. And be the person in charge of your own behaviors, but not trying to control other people's behaviors.

So, in terms of not arguing over absolutes, here's what I mean -- if someone wants to say, "Cheese has lotsa good nutrients" or "Paris is the capital of England" then they're kinda baiting you into an argument over absolutes which you have no interest in engaging in.

I mean, you're not in the Debate Club, and you really don't have to present any arguments to anyone about the ultimate nutritional nature of cheese. You don't have to be an expert on cow hormones. You are off the hook.

If people want to know about your behaviors, you can say, "I like to give my daughter puréed peas BECAUSE ____" and "I buy a lot of rice and quinoa BECAUSE ____" and "I decided to eat plant foods BECAUSE _____". And if people are asking these out of genuine curiosity, then good. But if you sense that people are trying to trap you, or trying to put you in a position of having to defend yourself -- well then, these kind of people don't really deserve answers at all. Nice people do not corner you or attack you verbally, so please respond accordingly if someone you know proves they are not a nice person.

I'll tell you one other thing, which is that it's really to express your opinion of SAD foods in kinda non-threatening terms. So, I can say, "I'm not in love with dairy products" and "I'm not positive I love the idea of eating fish oils" or "I'm not so convinced that pop tarts are health foods" and "I'm not really that ecstatic about mainstream breakfast foods".

So, it's just really hard to argue with me if I phrase it that way. If I say, "I'm not totally convinced that pop tarts are health foods", you can follow up all you want, and all I really need to say, "I dunno why, I'm just NOT." And other people can BE convinced, because each person has free will and that's their right.

And then as far as behavior goes, please remember that YOU are the one who decides what you will buy, what you will do, and what you will cook. You don't owe anyone any explanations.

If you would like me to offer you my own personal WHYs of plant-based eating, so that you can borrow them until you have your own, I am happy to share. It can strengthen your intention to have a set of ideas as to WHY we do this, and WHAT our intentions are, because then other people can't undermine our intentions. Let me know if you need this, OK?

See if that helps you any!
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby patty » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:42 am

The fact you know to agree to disagree, you are way ahead of the game. Our children mirror our subconscious, so the faster you are able to go to that place within where you emotionally detach the better for you both. And that of course means not compromising your beliefs about her health. Sometimes though it is yes, no and wait. Dr. McDougall in a interview ... I don't remember the person name, I think it was Jim Moore.. who is a advocate of a low-carb diet, Dr. McDougall's two questions were "How's your breath/digestion?" And I would stay with her breath is sour and she was straining or had loose stools as convincing rebuttals. I would say, "It's not a choice." It's not a option." While trying for what you want and taking what you get:) Sometimes we loose to win.. time is on your side, you are her mother.

Aloha, patty
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby dailycarbs » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:57 pm

choufleur,

This sounds like a tough predicament. When a child is involved and one of the parents (and his entire family, it seems) are battling you with no openness to changing their minds, my approach would be to keep my eye on the war and be willing to lose a few battles. It seems as though you're the primary caretaker so that's a big plus. Is this month abroad a once a year thing? Maybe you can limit the damage by telling your in-laws that you're feeding your daughter in the healthiest way and you don't want her confused with the introduction of off-plan foods. I wouldn't get into any technical food debates if I were you. But I would have some facts and information/links at my disposal regarding the dangers of meat and dairy. In other words, pick your battles. For meat and dairy, you can easily find links from a variety of sources for things like: dairy linked to autoimmune diseases in children, meat labeled class 1 carcinogen by WHO, etc.

I'd be especially concerned about any cow's milk (and meat) so early in your child's development and if it came right down to it, I'd go to the mattresses[1] over those. If it's only a month, you should be able to fight them off. Never underestimate what a determined mother bear defending her "cub" can accomplish. :D

Look at the big picture down the road:
I imagine that your daughter is healthy and as she continues to grow and thrive, it will be self-evident that your plan is working. All parties have the child's health and well being as their primary interest so that's what I'd base my arguments and strategy around. It will be hard for them to argue with success.

Good luck.

[1] going to the mattresses
Going to war with a rival clan or family. Used in the mafia. Its when a mafia family sends someone out to get someone apartments and some mattresses for the soldiers of the family to sleep on while they hide out in saftey, waiting for a call to do something.

Sonnys thinkin' about going to the mattresses already.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... id=2025508
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby katgirl55 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:03 pm

it's better for me not to talk to people about it and let everyone do their own thing.


The more you talk about it, the more you open that door for it to become a debate. It takes some practice to not react to what other people say. This is true in general, not just when it come to food. When we give up trying to be right, there is room for peace.
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby Skip » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:04 pm

Lately I have used this: if there's a nutritional discussion, I just suggest that people watch Forks over Knives.
If it's environmental, I suggest that they watch Cowspiracy. That way the movies can do the explaining a lot better that me....
"The fundamental principle of ethics is reverence for life" Albert Schweitzer
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby JuicerJohn » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:16 pm

And if the question is Why Vegan, Earthlings is a good suggestion.
Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. John 14:6
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby LuckyMomma » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:29 pm

If it were me, I'd be a little easy going because you have her most of the time. Dr. Lisle said the only thing he'd be strict on is dairy cuz I believe he said one in sixteen could result in an auto immune disease.

You will be setting an example for your daughter at home. There is going to be challenges when she attends school, parties, etc. my kids decided to go meatless around 15, it is so much easier when they decide and can speak out for themselves.
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby bbq » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:59 pm

FYI - here are some resources that could be helpful:

Getting Along Without Going Along
http://esteemdynamics.org/getting-along-without-going-along/

Doug Lisle: Getting Along Without Going Along
http://youtu.be/LCatukmB47s

F2F immersion--How to get along without going along
http://www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_journal_individual.asp?blog_id=5214637

Keeping the Focus on Friends and Family
https://engine2diet.com/the-daily-beet/keeping-the-focus-on-friends-and-family/

Can You Have Your Health AND a Social Life?
http://www.truewellth.org/plant-based-diet-social-skills

On Being the Only Vegan in a Family of Omnivores.
http://www.theveganwoman.com/the-only-white-sheep-on-being-the-only-vegan-in-a-family-of-omnivores/

How to Survive as a Vegan in a Non-Vegan Household
http://www.onegreenplanet.org/lifestyle/how-to-survive-as-a-vegan-in-a-non-vegan-household/

3 Tips for Vegans Living in a Non-Vegan Household
http://cok.net/blog/2014/02/3-tips-non-vegan-household/

Family not vegan
http://www.vegancoach.com/family-not-vegan.html

Dealing with Family
http://www.veganoutreach.org/advocacy/family.html

Dealing with Non-Vegan Family Members
http://healthyvegancoach.com/dealing-with-non-vegan-family-members.html

5 Tips for Living with a Non-Vegan
http://blog.vegancuts.com/guest-bloggers/5-tips-for-living-with-a-non-vegan/

Tips for Coping With Nonvegan Family Members
http://prime.peta.org/2012/03/tipsfor

Social Situations
http://www.livevegan.org/social-situations

Social
https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/lifestyle/social

Being Vegan in A Non-Vegan Family ft. Colleen Patrick-Goudreau
http://bitesizevegan.com/vegan-lifestyle-2/being-vegan-in-a-non-vegan-family-ft-colleen-patrick-goudreau/
http://youtu.be/ykMzMvd0KkQ

EATING VEGAN IN SOCIAL SITUATIONS
http://youtu.be/izmEgzL9rO4
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby healthyvegan » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:05 am

Here are my suggestions.

Them: Why don't you eat cheese?
YOU: I feel much better not eating cheese, I read some horrible information about it, can I share it with you to get your feedback?
Them: But cheese is very good for you, and there are nutrients in cheese.
(they can't say this because you said you feel BETTER not eating cheese, that is not something they can argue with since its how you feel) Then ask permission to share the info, either via email / in person / books, etc. Ask for their opinion of the material.

On my partner trying to give the baby a piece of croissant.
Me: Please don't give that to her. It's not good for her.
YOU: She gets very ill when she eats that & has trouble going to the bathroom, give her this instead (potato/etc)
BF: What is not good for her? (since we didn't say something is good or bad, we just say, she gets ill/has bowel problems its not a question of good/bad & we avoid denouncing his diet.
Me: There is tons of butter in it, for one thing. (don't even get into it, butter makes her ill, keep it at that)
BF: Butter is not bad for you.

Me (on eating white pasta they prepared): I generally try to make only whole grain pasta and brown rice at home. It has more fiber in it.
You: enjoy the white pasta! You can make whole grain when you do the cooking, its not that big of a deal.
Them: But the Italians eat this kind of fresh pasta [white pasta] and it is The Best.

Them: Aren't you worried about missing some vitamins if you don't eat meat or fish? Like B12?

Me: I take a multivitamin to cover B12.
YOU: I've learned so much about vitamins that I'd like to share with you if you are interested I'll email it to you tonight, we can talk about it tomorrow! be very excited.
You'll never hear another question about it again!
mrmrsvegan.com free whole starch low fat cookbook #wslf
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby choufleur » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:07 am

Thanks GeoffreyLevens, patty, katgirl55, Skip, for your advice. I will be practicing my non-threatening responses and referring them to books and movies (though I'm quite sure none will be watched or read!).

@JuicerJohn - I tried to ask him to read The China Study (I thought exactly like you and thought a book of studies might be more appealing) but he refused. I've only finally gotten him to agree to watch Forks Over Knives (although he hasn't watched it yet).

@RoundCoconut - Thanks for the advice on the non-threatening phrases. I know why I eat this way and what my intentions are for both me and my daughter, but it's probably good to practice saying them in non-critical ways.

@dailycarbs
- this month abroad is a special case, but I imagine we will visit France for a couple of weeks a year if we can afford it to see the grandparents/family. I am going to look up some readily available links about meat and dairy just to have if I need them. I definitely agree that as time goes on and my daughter is thriving, no one will be able to argre about that - I hope we'll get there! And thanks for the interesting new phrase I've just learned (going to the mattresses).

@LuckyMomma - yes, I am already thinking about school and parties, and think it will be hard then as well. Great news that your kids decided for themselves to go meatless.

@bbq - thanks for all the links! I am familiar with a few of the Dr. Lisle links, but some are new to me.

@healthyvegan - thanks for the suggestions on responses. I kind of wish my daughter got more ill when eating these high fat foods (butter, oil) but she doesn't. It's rather annoying because he and other people have given her foods like these and she then asks for me, so they think of course she loves these high fat foods and that it can't hurt her.
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby dailycarbs » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:06 am

choufleur wrote:@dailycarbs[/b] - this month abroad is a special case, but I imagine we will visit France for a couple of weeks a year if we can afford it to see the grandparents/family. I am going to look up some readily available links about meat and dairy just to have if I need them. I definitely agree that as time goes on and my daughter is thriving, no one will be able to argre about that - I hope we'll get there! And thanks for the interesting new phrase I've just learned (going to the mattresses).


Here are a few links to get you started. Impress on them the longterm health aspects for your daughter—that she will live a healthier, longer life on this woe.

Cancer & Heart Disease
Plant-based foods and prevention of cardiovascular disease: an overview
>>>Evidence from prospective cohort studies indicates that a high consumption of plant-based foods such as fruit and vegetables, nuts, and whole grains is associated with a significantly lower risk of coronary artery disease and stroke.<<<
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/544S.short

The science against meat: A look at 5 key studies about cancer risk
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to- ... 6310856852

Dangers of Dairy
Dangers Of Milk And Dairy Products - The Facts
http://www.rense.com/general26/milk.htm

Dr. McDougall: Type 1 Diabetes Caused by Milk (VIDEO) - Vegsource.com
http://www.vegsource.com/news/2011/05/d ... video.html

Diabetes
Conservative Management of Diabetes | TrueNorth Health
>>>In one study, Dr. S. Sweeney fed young, healthy medical students a very high fat diet for two days and then gave them a glucose tolerance test.  Virtually all of the students showed blood sugar levels high enough to classify them as diabetic. Some were quite severe.  All of the students, blood sugar levels returned to normal when placed on a low fat diet.<<<
http://www.healthpromoting.com/learning ... t-diabetes
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Re: Looking for help on how to respond in non-critical ways

Postby Lesliec1 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:50 am

That's fantastic that you are trying to raise a healthy child! What a huge, lifelong gift to her.

I imagine parents go through this all the time, meaning in-laws or others being critical of everything a new mother does, not just diet. (Why is that her bedtime? Why do you let her do that, go there, play with that, etc.) I would be trying to think of a very nice way to say "mind your own business." Something that would end future criticisms so you don't have to listen to that forever.

Sometimes using a medical excuse works. For me, I can end questions by saying I can't eat X due to my disease or doctors orders. Maybe you could do something similar such as, "she's healthy and the doctor says I should keep feeding her this way" or maybe even, "The doctor says it's important to not give her dairy so she doesn't risk getting ear infections" which is the truth. Maybe get some specific medical reasons that tells them it's not just you and "your quirky diet notions".

Anyway, just some thoughts. The best case would be for them to watch a video but I know from experience that doesn't always work. My friend's daughter has terrible sinus complications. The poor girl has to have nasal surgery constantly for polyps. It kills me for them not to at least TRY giving up dairy. We had a great, long conversation about this way of eating and she actually did watch Forks Over Knives but nothing changed. Her husband is a devout meat eater. I gave it my best shot but I had to give it up to save the friendship.

Anyway, your attitude in not wanting to argue is great so far. I'm sure you'll eventually figure out the best thing to say. Maybe other mothers can give you ideas. I bet there a lot of people who have to deal with in-laws giving their kids too much candy (or whatever.)
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