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For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

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Postby GeoffreyLevens » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:00 pm

Too much fundamentalist outrage. My apologies for the disturbance.
Last edited by GeoffreyLevens on Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why You Should Stop Eating Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner

Postby pickles » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:26 pm

100% agree!!

I never felt better than when i had a 12-hour shift job where I'd bring a small bag of trail mix to graze on throughout then eat my main (big) meal of the day at 7:30 pm. I slept better too.

Sadly the sirens of nutritionism changed my patterns. I might jump back in.
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Re: Why You Should Stop Eating Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner

Postby GeoffreyLevens » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:37 pm

I have been eating Fast 5 version for almost 3 years now. Very difficult first few weeks but as soon as I changed my "eating window" to a time that suited my body best, it became totally easy. Now it is hard to imagine eating any other way. I eat breakfast around 7:30 am right after I finish working out, lunch when I get hungry again, usually around 11 or 12, then water or herb tea until next morning. Many do it the other way and skip morning eating afternoon early evening and that is definitely more socially conducive but it gave my metabolism fits! The I am doing it now just feels natural and easy and I pretty much just eat when hungry. Doing this has also helped me learn the difference in how it feels to be hungry vs just "wanting to eat".
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Re: Why You Should Stop Eating Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner

Postby colonyofcells » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:10 pm

I agree about eating only when hungry but I always find plenty of other reasons to eat every day. I can skip dinner if I do not feel hungry and will just watch youtube till I am sleepy. On weekends, I usually eat only 2 meals per day.
I agree that water only fasting is a great idea altho I have a phobia about water only fasting bec I always fear I might go crazy if I do not eat for more than 24 hours and I might start conversing with the universe or something. Mental illness does run in our family.
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Re: Why You Should Stop Eating Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner

Postby GeoffreyLevens » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:30 pm

colonyofcells wrote:I agree about eating only when hungry but I always find plenty of other reasons to eat every day. I can skip dinner if I do not feel hungry and will just watch youtube till I am sleepy. On weekends, I usually eat only 2 meals per day.
I agree that water only fasting is a great idea altho I have a phobia about water only fasting bec I always fear I might go crazy if I do not eat for more than 24 hours and I might start conversing with the universe or something. Mental illness does run in our family.
Having done a few water fasts, 11 days being the longest, I can tell you for certain you lose muscle that takes a long time to get back and is very easily replaced by fat since your metabolism is even slower post fast than before. I would not ever do it again unless/except if needed as medical treatment.
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Re: Why You Should Stop Eating Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner

Postby dailycarbs » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:53 pm

IMO everyone (including mcdougallers) would benefit by experimenting with fasting or some sort of short eating window. It's quite possible that some of the health benefits we are aware of in plant based eating societies that have been studied are partially or greatly attributed to calorie restriction (privation due to poverty) and religious fasting. Skipping breakfast is an easy way to make your dialy eating window 8 hours or less and it's thought that 16 hours fasting (per 24 hours) is about the amount you need to start getting the benefits. I find it surprisingly easy to eat within an 8 hour window and I squeeze it down to less than 5 hours some days. You know what makes breakfast really delicious? When it's at 3 in the afternoon.*

* technically breakfast because I'm "breaking the fast" but meal composition is usually more like lunch or dinner.
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Re: Why You Should Stop Eating Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner

Postby veg tom » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:05 am

It took me a long time to learn to only eat when I was hungry. I use to eat because it was that time.
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Re: Why You Should Stop Eating Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner

Postby mapat » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:45 am

When living alone for 3 years, I found that I ate (because I was hungry) just twice a day; about 2 pm and 7 pm. Lost weight and felt good. Everyone is different, find what works for you. Just wait until you are actually hungry before you eat anything.
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Re: Why You Should Stop Eating Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner

Postby Spiral » Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:15 pm

Is this how Dr. McDougall handles at this 10 day programs or at his advanced study weekends? Does he only let people eat during a 5 or 8 hour window? Or does he make food available from early morning until late at night?

What does Novick think about restricting the eating window? What does Dr. McDougall think? Is it a worthwhile strategy? Or would it be better to focus on calorie density? I suppose one can do both narrow the eating window and focus on calorie density.
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Re: Why You Should Stop Eating Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner

Postby dailycarbs » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:23 pm

Spiral wrote:Is this how Dr. McDougall handles at this 10 day programs or at his advanced study weekends? Does he only let people eat during a 5 or 8 hour window? Or does he make food available from early morning until late at night?

What does Novick think about restricting the eating window? What does Dr. McDougall think? Is it a worthwhile strategy? Or would it be better to focus on calorie density? I suppose one can do both narrow the eating window and focus on calorie density.


The McDougall program does not say to eat during a restricted time window or to fast. I think of McDougall/TSS/calorie density as the main components of our woe. One can add to the toolbox. MWL, for example. Intermittent fasting is another. It's not that anyone is advocating eating high calorie density foods and using fasting to reduce overall calories. That's not the message at all! I hope Jeff chimes in. I get the feeling he knows plenty about this and has some opinions but one thing I don't think anyone here wants is to distract from the main message of starches and calorie density. So maybe it's not a message that will ever get a lot of play.
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Re: Why You Should Stop Eating Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner

Postby colonyofcells » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:49 pm

Based on what I have heard on the webinars and youtube, Dr McDougall rarely resorts to the rice diet or sending somebody to truenorth for water only fasting. Questions about intermittent fasting or limited feeding windows have come up and I remember Dr Mcdougall does not use them. I have noticed that some do work or are associated with both the mcdougall program and truenorth. As for skipping meals, I remember Dr Mcdougall and or Mary Mcdougall said that if cannot really find a compliant meal, it is ok to skip a meal.
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Re: Why You Should Stop Eating Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner

Postby PurplePotato » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:23 pm

Here are two threads from Jeff's forum that touch on this:

Eating Between Meals

Reflecting On The 5:2 Diet & Intermittent Fasting

Here is a main takeaway:

JeffN wrote:Bottom line, following the recommendations here to consume a unrefined unprocessed plant based diet that is low in calorie density, high in nutrient density and high in satiety, along with the proper amount and type of physical activity may be the most important issue. Whether someone does this in 3 meals vs 5 meals vs 1 meal, may be less important than total calories and overall food choices, and a fine detail that would be up to the individual based on which method helps them incorporate the more important principles.


If you haven't looked at theses threads yet, I think the details are interesting and worth perusing.
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Re: Post removed

Postby Spiral » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:12 pm

Very interesting. Sometimes I think my eating window is too large. But I am afraid to narrow my eating window because I am afraid that if I do, I will end up cheating and eating unhealthy foods. By eating often and whenever I want, I find it easier to eat only on plan foods.

Maybe I could start eating at noon and finish eating at 5 pm without cheating and eating a snickers bar at work. But I'm afraid to. By filling myself up with oatmeal and fruit during the morning, rice for lunch and potatoes for dinner, I feel like I am staying on course.

I guess I could always give the narrow eating window a try. And if I do end up scarfing down Cheetos and snickers bars while at work, I would just go back to my old ways of eating oatmeal for breakfast. I eat collard greens with my breakfast oatmeal, which guarantees that I will get some leafy greens each day.

I think every now and then we have to take a critical look at what we are doing and consider doing something different.
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Re: Post removed

Postby patty » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:59 pm

I enjoyed Fast Five... my schedule changed where it was difficult so I let it go. it was a very positive experience. Now I am just enjoying eating spontaneously. I am sure I will pick it up again at sometime. I found I thought a lot less about food:)

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Re: Post removed

Postby vgpedlr » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:16 am

I like eating breakfast, lunch and dinner. But I have experimented a little with extending the overnight fast longer, 12-14 hrs between dinner and breakfast and that feels pretty good. After talking to Dr. Klaper at the ASW, it seems there may be some benefit. I also sleep better if I don't eat anything after 7.30 or so.
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