Refuting my friend's inane pro-paleo arguments

[dailycarbs]

Sounds pretty toxic. Maybe take a break from the relationship for a while by spending less time. When you do get together, change conversation when he brings up diet. He can't for force you to go to computer and look up stuff so refrain from that. After changing the subject enough times, if he persists, say something like, "we spend so little time together any more. I don't wan to waste it taking about diets. Let's talk about family, other interests." If he persists, restrict time together further. Spend more time here on forum.

[Lesliec1]

I don't agree with cutting off your relationship with him. Jeez, I'd be lonely and have no family at all if I did that.

I think you should have a heart-to-heart talk and BOTH of you agree to stop bringing up anything nutrition related. I think if you don't bring it up, he will constantly start debates and this will start to fester. It will continue to go downhill. I think this is your only hope at keeping a friend.

Try to look at it from his point of view. If I lost 100 pounds, I would feel like I had all the credibility, NO MATTER HOW I did it. I would feel like I already won the right to call myself an expert and who is anybody to tell me anything? Losing 100 lbs is huge. Of course YOU have time on your side.You know that in a few years or less, his health will start going south or he will gain all the weight back. You know it. We've all seen it. But until then, in his mind, why in the world should he listen to what you have to say?

[Werner1950]

Hmm, sounds like two very different personality types. He wins his arguments by raising his voice and plugging his ears. Some people are like that. If you can remain friends with him, you are doing better than I would.

Would he agree to allowing you equal time?
What about a agreeing written debate? I do much better in email thn in person, because in person passion gets in the way and memory fails me, but with email correspondence I can lay out arguments much more clearly.

[colonyofcells]

I am too lazy to read studies but I did hear that the Dr Dean Ornish program and pritikin program did use some studies to convince medicare to pay for the programs. Paleo people seem skilled at cherry picking studies so debates will probably go nowhere. I tend to rely on common sense and what the government recommends to help convince people. Pretty much everyone recommends at least vegetables and fruits. The mainstream also recommends whole grains. Paleo people tend to reject the mainstream consensus so it is hard to convince paleo people. The china government has already told the chinese to cut animal products by 50% for both health and the environment.

[Werner1950]

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/disclos ... -research/

[vgpedlr]

Do not tolerate the bullying. If you don't want to argue, refuse to be baited. Tell him to eff off, agree to disagree, and move on. Find other things to talk about. It may take a few times of walking out on him, but eventually he'll get the message. OTOH, if that's all he is willing to talk about, you may need to take a break until this phase passes.

[GeoffreyLevens]

I don't agree with cutting off your relationship with him. Jeez, I'd be lonely and have no family at all if I did that.

How friendly are you these days with Bert Bacon? You dumped that and that made room for a whole new set of friends, Bobby Beans, Virginia Veggies, Grace Grain, etc.

[colonyofcells]

It is ok to have some paleo friends since they are health conscious people too.

[Roey]

So today he mails me a few resources to read:

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ms.shtml
Mentions hypoglycemic, as in low A1c (note: mine on MWLP is 5.7, which is the lowest the scale goes to apparently, and the lowest the neuro had ever seen)

- Unsaturated fat makes MS symptoms worse
- Protein deficiency causes the body to produce more cortisol which makes MS worse
- in short, he says: eat saturated fat and refined plant based protein (this is why my friend kept suggesting/telling me to eat coconut oil on a large salad, with a protein shake on the side.

https://draxe.com/5-natural-treatments-multiple-sclerosis/
Some mentions about coconut oil, omega 3.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/meryl-davids-landau/multiple-sclerosis-diet_b_2258056.html
Some non-vegan diet that is allegedly effective against MS

http://www.startupcell.com/2013/02/coconut-oils-sick-mental-performance-power/
Article on the miracles of coconut oil on your myelin sheath


Again. I have no intentions of deviating from MWLP. In the four years that I've been on MWLP, I've discontinued MS medication. My MRI scans are all fine. How should I respond to all this from him???

[Thrasymachus]

Stop feeling the need to respond, don't waste your time and stress yourself. If you really have stopped multiple sclerosis medication that is amazing and you are on a good path.

[GeoffreyLevens]

Stop feeling the need to respond, don't waste your time and stress yourself. If you really have stopped multiple sclerosis medication that is amazing and you are on a good path.

Exactly. No response called for. If he asks outright what you though just say, "I have been able to stop all my MS meds and now have normal brain scans so it's all good." and nothing else. No need to convert, no need to argue, no need to justify, no need to change course. In other words, no one has to be wrong for you to be right!

[patty]

I don't agree with cutting off your relationship with him. Jeez, I'd be lonely and have no family at all if I did that.

I think you should have a heart-to-heart talk and BOTH of you agree to stop bringing up anything nutrition related. I think if you don't bring it up, he will constantly start debates and this will start to fester. It will continue to go downhill. I think this is your only hope at keeping a friend.

Try to look at it from his point of view. If I lost 100 pounds, I would feel like I had all the credibility, NO MATTER HOW I did it. I would feel like I already won the right to call myself an expert and who is anybody to tell me anything? Losing 100 lbs is huge. Of course YOU have time on your side.You know that in a few years or less, his health will start going south or he will gain all the weight back. You know it. We've all seen it. But until then, in his mind, why in the world should he listen to what you have to say?

Agree to disagree. We feed off each other:) It always take two to be One:) Wish the best for him, and those wishes come back ten fold.

Aloha, patty

[dailycarbs]

There's a little trash can on your screen somewhere. Simply deposit email without reading. Problem solved.

[GeoffreyLevens]

There's a little trash can on your screen somewhere. Simply deposit email without reading. Problem solved.

[vgpedlr]

How should I respond to all this from him???

Don't.

If his dietary interference is unwanted and unwelcome, be clear about it.

Stop feeling the need to respond, don't waste your time and stress yourself. If you really have stopped multiple sclerosis medication that is amazing and you are on a good path.

+1