Essential Fatty Acids poll

[Skip]

The poll will only allow for one answer. What if you add walnuts and flax seeds?

[pinkrose]

The poll will only allow for one answer. What if you add walnuts and flax seeds?

Good point, Skip! Now you can select up to three options!

[Mclnd]

Diabetes insipidus must be diagnosed with a water deprivation test and blood work. My dh has this and controls it with a no salt lower protein McDougall diet. There are more symptoms and complications than being thirsty and waking at night to urinate. On the SAD diet he would lose 3 gal a day. For example, my husband would wake 4 times and the volume would cause the toilet to flush on its own. DI will cause severe issues with electrolyte balance and high blood pressure. For my dh the med caused his salt to go too low (before mcdougalling). We actually found this WOE because doctors didn't have a clue and this WOE has been the best way to control his DI. Drs still are clueless, but my dh is healthy and functioning.

[StarchHEFP]

Here is what I learned about Omega-3 from T. Colin Campbell's course: Omega-3 and Omega-6 act in important ways, with Omega-6 favoring inflammation and Omega-3 are anti-inflammatory. We all need some Omega-6's because inflammation does serve a role in the body once in a while but most people get way, way more than they need. The idea ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 is 1:1 however the usual American ratio is more like 20:1 or 50:1. The grains are stripped of their good fats, beans and legumes are not eaten, and oils/animal fats are consumed instead of olives/nuts/seeds/avocado. Even the so-called healthy fatty fish has a significant amount of arachidonic acid which is pro-inflammatory. The fish only gets the good fats from the seaweed! Therefore the recommendation by most doctors and dietitians is "just take a DHA supplement". However, with a WFPB/no oil diet, we are closer to an idea ratio of Omega-6 and 3 just by consuming whole natural foods including greens, beans, whole grains, etc. Stripped grains are also stripped of their good oils or omega-3 content. However if one consumes as much whole, unprocessed grains as possible, one will get Omega-3. For example, ever store brown rice? Notice it goes rancid while white rice does not. Same goes for cracked wheat which spoils as opposed to semolina wheat. The rancidity is because of the breakdown of Omega-3. So I suggest storing these in the fridge for a longer life. Nuts aren't necessarily needed for the above reasons.

Just as a FYI, I had my Omega-6/3 ratio checked last year. It's not terribly expensive and available through Quest Diagnostics as a "Cardio IQ" test. I'm not 100% perfect with the no oil part, I like dessert once in a while too! While I consume no animal products, I'm not perfect with McDougall compliance. My total cholesterol was around 140, LDL around 80, and HDL 45, giving a TChol/HDL ratio of 3.0. My hs-CRP level was 0.4 which is very low. My Omega-6/3 ratio was around 11 (normal range by lab was 5.7 - 21.3)
I'm just presenting the above results as a FYI - this is what a plant-based mostly compliant person's stuff looks like. If anyone is curious, ask your doc to add the test to your labs!

Hope this helps, and I hope I learned something helpful!

[JeffN]

Just to clarify....

The idea ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 is 1:1 however the usual American ratio is more like 20:1 or 50:1

These ratio is based on dietary intake of Omega 6 to Omega 3.

We can "check" it by analyzing our dietary intake.

I have covered the dietary issue several times in my forum and while there is some evidence for a ratio below 4/1, and many theorize 1:1 may be ideal, I would say that neither is very definitive.

Just as a FYI, I had my Omega-6/3 ratio checked last year.It's not terribly expensive and available through Quest Diagnostics as a "Cardio IQ" test.

This test does not evaluate dietary intake of Omega 6/3 ratio. It does evaluate the Omega-3 index, which is a different ratio and not one with what I would consider good evidence behind it.

Two different things.

Both with limited evidence.

In Health
Jeff

[jeffj318]

I voted do nothing. As I remember, Nathan Pritikin said an olive a month would satisfy fatty acid requirements, or was it a week? Regardless, I believe him. Nocturnal urination in older men (every 2hr for me at 73y/o with enlargement but no cancer...yet) is no mystery. Enlarged prostate encroaches on real estate formerly available to the urinary bladder. I think there is a benefit to having to get up; sleeping in one position for long periods of time is not a good idea.

What about your sleep? I do the same at a younger age and feel tired in the morning from waking up every hour and a half to two hours.

[StarchHEFP]

Just to clarify....

The idea ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 is 1:1 however the usual American ratio is more like 20:1 or 50:1

These ratio is based on dietary intake of Omega 6 to Omega 3.

We can "check" it by analyzing our dietary intake.

I have covered the dietary issue several times in my forum and while there is some evidence for a ratio below 4/1, and many theorize 1:1 may be ideal, I would say that neither is very definitive.

Just as a FYI, I had my Omega-6/3 ratio checked last year.It's not terribly expensive and available through Quest Diagnostics as a "Cardio IQ" test.

This test does not evaluate dietary intake of Omega 6/3 ratio. It does evaluate the Omega-3 index, which is a different ratio and not one with what I would consider good evidence behind it.

Two different things.

Both with limited evidence.

In Health
Jeff

Thanks Jeff for the clarification! I actually had BOTH the Omega-3 Index, which is the DHA + EPA as a percentage, as well as the Omega-6 to Omega-3 ratio. As far as the lab said it was definitely indicative of one's dietary intake. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. You're absolutely right as far as the comment of evidence. I only found 1 study saying that a ratio of 4:1 was associated with a "70% reduction in cardiovascular mortality" the real question is compared to what, and the other question is how was the overall pattern of diet.

Here are the reference ranges given. I do not typically recommend this kind of testing because of the limited evidence. The only thing interesting that came out is that genetically, I have the smallest size of LDL that which is more atherogenic. Again, I am more concerned with people having the proper anti-inflammatory diet with whole natural plant foods than these absolute numbers. We know from recent research it's the animal protein as much or more than the fat which may be responsible for atherosclerosis.


Omega-3 (EPA+DHA) Index 1.4-4.9 %
Risk:
Index <2.2: High
Index 2.2-3.2: Moderate
Index >3.2: Low
(Mine was 2.5%)

Omega-6/Omega-3 Ratio 5.7-21.3
EPA/Arachidonic Acid Ratio ≤0.2
Arachidonic Acid 5.2-12.9%
EPA 0.2-1.5 %
DHA 1.2-3.9 %

[JeffN]

I actually had BOTH the Omega-3 Index, which is the DHA + EPA as a percentage, as well as the Omega-6 to Omega-3 ratio. As far as the lab said it was definitely indicative of one's dietary intake. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

It is a different ratio and not the one discussed in T. Colin Campbell's course. You can email him directly and ask or read my quote of his here...

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28413&start=15#p385752

The ratio of omega 6:omega 3 in these diets may be as high as 30:1 or more, thus creating a very high pro-inflammatory environment.

The ratio discussed in the course is the dietary ratio and while there may be some relationship with it to the ratio and index you were tested for, it is not in direct relationship or measurement to the dietary ratio.

You're absolutely right as far as the comment of evidence.

Both of the tests have limited if any value and why most of us (except those selling supplements) don't use them.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=38783&p=397987&#p397987

In Health
Jeff

[Chrysalis]

I use chia seeds occasionally, usually in oatmeal. Good bang for the buck when you get them on sale. Other than that, I don't eat nuts regularly since I am trying to lose weight. I'll eat roasted pumpkin seeds as a snack once in a while, and that's it. If I lose another 10 pounds I might add walnuts back as I am young and not worried about CAD on a plant-based diet.

[haze5736]

This topic is very interesting to me. After starting this WOE, I too, wake up every night to urinate. Usually about half way through the night. Then, after I wake up I must go again with moderate urgency. Before this WOE I rarely woke up in the middle of the night to urinate unless I drank something right before bed, usually beer or tea. I'm only 43 years old and this is incredibly frustrating. I have been drinking a lot of water for many years and since starting this WOE I have actually reduced my water intake a little.

Anyway, it isn't clear to me what the cause/solution to this problem is based on this thread. I have to assume that, in 5 months, I have not developed some sort of disease by eating this way. Or has eating this way exposed a problem I already had? I would really like to get a full nights sleep as I am extremely tired by early afternoon. I don't know what to do but I feel like I must do something soon.

[dlee]

I don't know what you were eating before but could it simply be you are eating more vegetables, fruits and greens etc that have more water in them?? Just wondering. dlee

[StarchHEFP]

Those are some pretty damning words of Dr. T. Colin Campbell! Wow. Basically while DHA might help some biomarkers like triglyceride and VLDL's, no beneficial effects on health. Thanks for posting his response. He's got some pretty harsh words for those that sell supplements! Well, Jeff, what about this quote "while DHA supplementation may have benefits for secondary prevention..." - what about those people with heart disease, mild cognitive impairment, diabetes, etc. isn't there some limited evidence that a DHA supplement might help them?

I actually had BOTH the Omega-3 Index, which is the DHA + EPA as a percentage, as well as the Omega-6 to Omega-3 ratio. As far as the lab said it was definitely indicative of one's dietary intake. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

It is a different ratio and not the one discussed in T. Colin Campbell's course. You can email him directly and ask or read my quote of his here...

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28413&start=15#p385752

The ratio of omega 6:omega 3 in these diets may be as high as 30:1 or more, thus creating a very high pro-inflammatory environment.

The ratio discussed in the course is the dietary ratio and while there may be some relationship with it to the ratio and index you were tested for, it is not in direct relationship or measurement to the dietary ratio.

You're absolutely right as far as the comment of evidence.

Both of the tests have limited if any value and why most of us (except those selling supplements) don't use them.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=38783&p=397987&#p397987

In Health
Jeff