it's not "fair"--or is it?

[arugula]

on another forum, a man, a highly educated one, was lamenting that life was not fair. he cited his recent heart attack as evidence.

yet this is a man who eats the standard american diet.

if ate that way i would feel like i was asking for, no, begging for a heart attack.

it's surprising that hardly anyone has a clue that it's his or her own doing in almost every case.

it's also surprising that people can be so accomplished in a demanding field (one of the hard sciences for this particular person) and eat horribly, having no clue as to the consequences.

[bbq]

Most doctors are also highly educated in one area but not necessarily another:

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/do-doctors-make-the-grade/

For some reasons our education could give us a false sense of security, it's such an irony isn't it?



It's certainly NOT fair for doctors to invest so much time and money before starting a career, in the end they're really good at fixing broken bones etc. while doing so little to help patients who are dying from the leading killers in developed countries.

Fortunately that's also motivating quite a few physicians to change the system from within:

http://youtu.be/ajhX5jWmlL0#t=1272
https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50489&p=539493#p539493

[roundcoconut]

I'm not sure that it's fair when people are given such horrible, horrible information on what and how to eat, and then they develop chronic illnesses and disabilities.

It doesn't seem like people are willfully doing anything wrong.

People on the street think that they should include chicken and fish at a few meals a week, and think pork, beef, turkey, lunch meat, sausage and bacon, are appropriate for the other meals out of the week. So, of COURSE people have autoimmune conditions and heart attacks and back problems.

They think they should be eating yogurt and snacking on almonds and string cheese. So their weight is climbing and climbing too.

My coworker said, "Nuts and seeds are very filling. I had a small bowl of nuts last night, and I really felt full afterwards." I said, You probably could've felt full with 1/4 the caloric load if you had been snacking on brown rice though. She went: and huh??? So people's experiential learning sometimes pushes them to confirm what people on TV are telling them -- that fat is good for weight loss.

So yeah, it''s kinda not fair that people are sometimes working hard to stuff down the kinds of foods that they are told are good. They are bribing their kid to finish their grilled cheese sandwich, and they are setting a good example by keeping roasted salted almonds in the house for snacking. And it's all backfiring on them!

Oh well, I'm rambling! What's new!? But it seems profoundly unfair that I've got great information, and have the health and outward appearance I would've chosen for myself, but others are stuck in disabled and hijacked bodies, or just hate buying clothes for the bodies that they don't enjoy living in. If only we can get people into that learning curve of KNOWING what the heck they're doing with their forks and knives!

[Thrasymachus]

Being "educated", "accomplished", a professional, etc. is more about family pressure, social jockeying, a desire to earn a good salary. It has nothing to do with a desire to truly live well. Instead it is all about wanting to be conventionally successful with a comparatively high salary, and land a job with social power and social prestige. To give a good example, the excellent radio program "Against the Grain" did an audio adaption of the movie "Creating Freedom: The Lottery of Birth (2013)". During a portion I believe Jeff Schmidt(from previous knowledge I surmise it was him) said that at Los Alamos National Lab the scientists were asked about their problems or difficulties. He said they gave nitpicking technical complaints often that the computers were too slow. It never entered their heads that a real problem is more along the lines of working at one of the most notorious weapons laboratories in human history, or the human, societal and environmental impacts of the application of any technology they may help to develop. I think this is the podcast:
https://kpfa.org/episode/against-the-gr ... r-15-2015/

There is a unique type of autism that professionals have and it was ingrained into them in schooling. They don't have the ability to truly question the edifice of underlying belief systems. Thus they can be counted on to use the comparative power and autonomy they have in society, in a way that will never clash with elite interests. Jeff Schmidt covered this in his book:
http://www.unwelcomeguests.net/Disciplined_Minds

Heck some of the most credentialed professionals from the best schools actually sacrifice their health more so than others due to being extreme workaholics and arch careerists willing to work inhuman hours. Living well is fundamentally different from what most conceive of as success in this society.

[LowCarbIsDeadly]

Oh well, I'm rambling! What's new!? But it seems profoundly unfair that I've got great information, and have the health and outward appearance I would've chosen for myself, but others are stuck in disabled and hijacked bodies, or just hate buying clothes for the bodies that they don't enjoy living in. If only we can get people into that learning curve of KNOWING what the heck they're doing with their forks and knives!

Thats a great post roundcoconut. We are so lucky to have the right information on what foods to eat to be healthy and look good as a side benefit too. Why would they not believe their doctors are giving them the right info. Its ok to eat chicken after that heart attack just make sure you don't eat the skin and bake it instead of fry it. Watch those carbs if you are a diabetic make sure you eat plenty of protein at each meal. They do believe their doctors and their doctors maybe/probably are well meaning but just plain ole wrong when it comes to nutrition.

[MDsolehinSABTU]

There will be trials and difficulties no matter which point of progress you've made. We have to be cautious ourselves as we undertake plant-based diets, to ensure the information we take to practice is done right, the sources of these foods are untainted,etc.

Life can be tough at times but there are always solutions to every problem. Take your pick.

[arugula]

i don't think it's profoundly unfair. i sought out the info. i read it, i took it to heart. why this is beyond others escapes me.

i don't understand why somebody like jimmy moore has any followers. you can just look at the guy and see that his is not a health outcome that you wish to emulate.

i don't understand why other people believe that rich fatty foods are good for them. i don't understand why people insist that differences in health outcomes and weight are solely due to genetics. my family has the worst possible "genetics." grandparents die in their early 50s due to CHD, mother died at 50 from breast cancer, others died of complications from type II diabetes. many were overweight for most of their adult lives.

i've escaped all that. it has nothing to do with genetics. i could still get cancer, and i won't cry if i do, but i've lasted longer than my mother so i consider myself to be in "bonus points" land.

[petero]

People are rationalizing their bad choices. You can build a whole Taubesian empire around it. The "science" is not precise or objective enough to not sow seeds of doubt every now and then that can be exploited by the interested. Voila. "People love to hear good news about their bad habits." That's not the same as it being their fault or their failure, though.

[vgpedlr]

We are an exceptional bunch here.

As in, we are exceptions.

There is so much doubt and confusion that I don't think it's fair to blame those who can't find their way through it. It's like the kid who understood the math problem before the teacher even finished writing it on the board and had their hand raised, while the rest of us were just trying to figure out which rule applied.

Ever had a profound "AHA!" moment when suddenly something made sense, and you just got it? What changed in that moment? Did you suddenly become a good person whereas before you weren't? Let's have some patience and compassion for those who have not yet had their "AHA!" moments concerning diet. I still remember mine clearly.

As for Jimmy Moore, he plays very well the role of "Everyman" in his quest to sort everything out. He has a long line of guests to present the LC/paleo case, it's not just him. And many of those people look great, have compelling personal stories, and evidence that is very persuasive.

[katgirl55]

Oh well, I'm rambling! What's new!? But it seems profoundly unfair that I've got great information, and have the health and outward appearance I would've chosen for myself, but others are stuck in disabled and hijacked bodies, or just hate buying clothes for the bodies that they don't enjoy living in. If only we can get people into that learning curve of KNOWING what the heck they're doing with their forks and knives!

Thats a great post roundcoconut. We are so lucky to have the right information on what foods to eat to be healthy and look good as a side benefit too. Why would they not believe their doctors are giving them the right info. Its ok to eat chicken after that heart attack just make sure you don't eat the skin and bake it instead of fry it. Watch those carbs if you are a diabetic make sure you eat plenty of protein at each meal. They do believe their doctors and their doctors maybe/probably are well meaning but just plain ole wrong when it comes to nutrition.

This is the motivational/inspirational post I needed to read today. I have been lamenting the fact that I am tired and not making right choices due to recent travel etc. and gaining weight as a result. I need to quit boohooing over my plight, since I DO know what to do and there are many millions out there who do not. I have the choice, where they don't even know there is one. If I did not seek out unconventional health information which brought me here, I would be listening to the same standard nutritional advice doled out by doctors and the media. I would believe them because I would have no reason to NOT think they are giving me good healthful information. To know and not do anything about it is a waste.