Why don't more people eat this way?

[Grammy Ginger]

It's a matter of firstly having the motivation and secondly getting the education and then having an open mind that the education just might be right for you and then having the guts and discipline to give it a try and see the magic happen to you.......

Sooooo...it's not really magic at all; is it?

[roundcoconut]

I don't know of any habit or any endeavor where "incrementalism" isn't a factor to success.

Wasn't Mozart composing symphonies when he was 6? If so, then let's go ahead and expect that of everyone.

As for us needing to put in our ten thousand hours to truly be good at what we're doing:
It is kind of weird that we don't consider the concepts, skills and habits of this way of eating to be things that require larger amounts of time to acquire. It is like watching a documentary on marathoning, and being like, "Oh, OK, so all I really need to do is go out there and run for 26.2 miles." I mean, it just sounds so straightforward at first, but then you realize "Oh those runners I've been watching have been practicing this for years, and that's how they make it look so easy."

Skip, I know you've been on these boards since 2010, and i've been on these boards since 2012 (two additional years under a previous user name). And approaching this way of eating from a place of ingrained habits and developed confidence, is probably a hell of a lot easier for us, than for someone who's been doing this way of eating since, like, late march. It makes a difference to put in the time -- I really believe that.

[dailycarbs]

I think a lot of people who have a poor history and psychological problems with food, simply can't see how a person without such problems can approach a gradual change for the better.

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't have "a poor history and psychological problems with food," and I'm not sure why you'd think that this is the reason why anyone would be for or against incrementalism. That incrementalism won't work for most people is not an ideology of mine but rather my opinion based on common sense and observation of human nature. The same goes for your incremental approach. So we've reached different conclusions. Instead of accepting that we have a difference of opinion, you have ignored my arguments, jumped to conclusions (such as what I meant by the word "diet") and continue to prop up and knock down your strawmen.

[GlennR]

I think it's safe to say, statistically, no matter your approach to changing your diet and lifestyle, only a certain percentage will have permanent success. One of the things McDougall's plan aids in is motivation as results start to come pretty quickly. That can mean some positive reinforcement and if you go all in you tend to see those results sooner.

However, even with this solid plan, I've seen lots of people give this board and plan a sincere effort only to fall by the way side and retreat to old habits.

[Taggart]

Sometimes I'll do like the plant based doctors advise. Since I'm not vegetarian, let alone vegan, other times I'll fall back to Pritikin or Blue Zones (minus the olive oil). Sometimes I can't even attain that, especially when outside the home. I just do the best I can, and try not to repeat my mistakes. I've been told by other people that I'm not a big eater, but one thing I try and make sure never to do and that is go hungry.

[iowamv]

Wow, lots of good things being written. I suppose in the end we'll have to let each person approach this the way s/he feels is best.

One person's perspective: My level of motivation ebbs and flows with my hunger, on a daily basis (actually, several times a day!). Probably the most important thing I have learned is that I cannot let myself get too hungry, because once I do, I make horrible choices. A couple pieces of fruit before the drive home from work "takes the edge off," and increases the likelihood I'll behave myself when I get home. Closely related corollary: I behave myself more if it is easier to eat on plan. I try to keep at least a couple of kinds of whole grains prepared and waiting in the refrigerator for me to use. Zap some frozen veggies and warm up the grains and I'm good to go.

Back to the topic at hand, and speaking only for myself, it helps if I begin each day hearing Dr. McD's words in my head: "Not my food." I think "if someone brings in off-plan treats to work, I won't eat them. Not my food." SOS is not my food. And to me, "not my food" means "not the type of thing I can eat, in any quantity." I find solace in simplicity. For me, one chip with the salsa is where it starts, but never where it ends. If others can get there by any other means, I have no reason to do anything but cheer them on.

I did get to my current state by gradually figuring it all out (vegetarian first, then vegan, then getting rid of oil). So if by incrementalism we mean "not figuring it all out at once," I'm on board with that too. I just know I can't do the McD WOE as a "sometimes" proposition. I've tried, and it leads to weight gain and worsening health.

[Skip]

It's a matter of firstly having the motivation and secondly getting the education and then having an open mind that the education just might be right for you and then having the guts and discipline to give it a try and see the magic happen to you.......

Sooooo...it's not really magic at all; is it?

It's the magic that happens to you after you've adopted a whole food plant based diet. You change physically, psychologically, spiritually, and so on.....it is truly magical

[Spiral]

A few days ago my wife asked me to go to Burger King with her because she wanted to try one of their hot dogs. (I didn't realize that Burger King sold hot dogs.) I told her that I would go with her, but, of course I would not order anything. As we drove through the drive thru, I saw the big menu board.

For a little more than a nanosecond I remembered fondly those days many years ago when I would order food from my car window at Burger King or McDonalds or Taco Bell. For some reason, all those different "combos" with fries and a sugary drink for about 6 dollars seemed appealing.

Perhaps I was experiencing a feeling similar to that of someone who quit smoking 3 packs of cigarettes each day 6 years ago reacting to watching someone light up a cigarette. I no longer crave beef burgers, French fries or Cherry Cokes. But somewhere in my brain the pleasure circuits can recall something positive (in the short term) about eating those unhealthy meals. Or perhaps I just found the idea of ordering a meal from my car window convenient and therefore appealing. I didn't come close to ordering a whopper. No way.

I go through this when I am at the grocery store and I see some veggie burgers other than the Engine2 veggie burgers. I briefly fantasize that I could purchase any of the 7 varieties of veggie burgers in the grocery store's freezer. For a moment, my food choices are increased. But then I decide not to purchase those veggies burgers because they contain vegetable oils, too much sodium and other unhealthful ingredients.

I imagine this is just a glimpse of what people go through when they attempt to eat healthier. They are confronted by temptations. There's no food policeman standing next to them, preventing them from buying a pound of bacon or a 20 ounce bottle of Dr. Pepper. The individual dieter realizes that the entire burden of resisting temptation falls on them alone, no one else. And without the confidence of repeated success, one might think, "I can't live the rest of my life without prime rib. No way." But people can live one week without prime rib. And then another week and then another. Until minestrone soup recipes and vegetable lasagna recipes fill the void and then one reaches the point when that prime rib has been forgotten.

The Doobie Brothers recorded an album (I'm dating myself) titled, "What Once Were Vices Are Now Habits." As far as this way of eating goes, what once was a sacrifice is now a pleasure. That's what I wish more people knew. Healthy eating isn't like gulping down bitter medicine. It's a joy.

[colonyofcells]

Today, there was a free office lunch and I had to eat in a singapore restaurant. I was not able to eat my usual whole grain bread today.

[roundcoconut]

My big problem with the tendency to pressure people into full-on perfect, is that I think it can be discouraging -- I think it can encourage people to not even bother, unless they think they can do it "all the way".

I particularly find it important if a person is going through a difficult life situation, where they are going through divorce, or in the middle of a job serach, or raising a young child, or caretaking for a parent. People who are dealing with something difficult have a LOT of their emotional resources already going toward their difficult situation. Then, they have a small bit of energy left over, and maybe they switch their breakfast habits, and their lunch habits, but continue to drink diet coke.

If a person like this asked me, "Do you think I'm wasting my time? Do you think I can pick up where I left off once I am not in the caretaking role, once I have my youngest child in daycare, once I am not dealing with the horrible stress of job interviews and applications?" I would totally and unconditionally say, "You are making really important changes! What you're doing MATTERS. Just KEEP GOING."

When people become especially discouraged, they often throw out their imperfectly established habits and say, "Why do I even bother." I would hate to ever see that. I would especially hate for any one of us to be the tipping point of discouragement, after which a person says, "Screwit."

It is true that people who are looking for any excuse to go back to a SAD diet, will do so. People who are looking for ways to go back to junk food, will do so, and I am not going to fight for them to stay in the plant-based community.

People who are looking for ways to eat more whole natural foods, are very much the people we care about (RIGHT????), and I will definitely fight for them to stay in the plant-based community and brainstorm any setbacks they may encounter. There's a difference!

[colonyofcells]

I try not to pressure people to do mcdougall diet 100% bec we are only human. I usually tell people to shift to farmer's market diets or produce diets to avoid refined substances. As a second step, can take vitamin b12 daily and reduce or eliminate junk food animal products, carcinogenic processed meats, carcinogenic red meats.

[Spiral]

I remember the last time I justified getting a BK Big Fish Sandwich at Burger King. (traveling) Got the diet soda with it. I remember loving them so much in the past and, it/they were horrible. I do think that could change back if I'm not vigilant. I have come to love the 'whole' foods so I'm glad for that.

Yes, most of the time when I eat one of those off plan foods that I used to eat all the time, I didn't get the enjoyment that I thought I would get. My memory of the enjoyment was more powerful than the enjoyment of actually eating the food. Perhaps because my taste buds have changed. But it could also be because nostalgia is a powerful force.

[dailycarbs]

The only off plan foods that tempt me at this stage are sweets and they taste as good as ever. There, I said it.

Otoh, the idea of going to some fancy restaurant (even vegan) is unappealing to me. I prefer the simple dishes I eat at home. I've become quite the rice and potato fan since going on this woe. You never know how much oil or salt restaurants will sneak into their dishes (usually too much) and I can taste and feel the impact (not in a good way). So I see no reason to spend the $$$ for gross food. Unfortunately, it's the only way some fiends will socialize.

As for fast food, burgers, etc, I quit meat over 20 years ago so all I can think is that it looks most unappealing in any form. So I can't relate to people craving it. I used to eat fish and still think that it would taste pretty good to me but not some fried fish sandwich from a cheap fast food place. Those are gross! Always have been.

[Spiral]

The only off plan foods that tempt me at this stage are sweets and they taste as good as ever. There, I said it.

Sweets are definitely one of my weaknesses. Fortunately, I am not likely to make a meal out of sweets. So, even if I occasionally give in on sweets, I am able to keep my meals healthy. I just try to keep my transgressions infrequent.

Valentine's Day is a problem for me because when my wife buys me a small box of chocolates, I don't feel good about refusing them. On my birthday I can ask for a fruit sorbet instead of a chocolate cake. But let's face it, fruit sorbets aren't exactly health food even if they aren't nearly as bad as other things people usually put in their mouths on birthdays.

Dr. Esselstyn had it right when he spoke of the "toxic food environment" we live in. You have a better chance of avoiding drugs at a rock concert than you do of avoiding artery clogging food during summer celebrations. It takes forethought and perseverance to keep it on the straight and narrow, at least in the beginning.

[JeffN]

Dr. Esselstyn had it right when he spoke of the "toxic food environment" we live in.

Just as an FYI...

The term was coined by Kelly Brownell over 2 decades ago, first appearing in a NY Times interview by Jane Brody.

Personal Health
By JANE E. BRODY
Published: December 25, 1996

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/25/healt ... kins3.html

"Dr. Kelly Brownell, a psychologist who specializes in nutrition and eating disorders at Yale University, blames what he calls ''the toxic food environment we now live in: the ready availability of high-fat, good-tasting, heavily promoted, deceptively advertised foods.''

In Health
Jeff