insulin makes you fat, set points, metabolism, fasting

[soul food]

http://www.thestar.com/life/health_well ... -thin.html

changing the title to fit

I had seen Dr. Jules Hirsch, Rockefeller University, an obesity researcher talk about set points and hunger drive on TV. This stirred up my curiosity so I have been on the lookout and found this.

There is another guy saying insulin is the culprit, Dr. David Ludwig, but he isn't recommending fasting but I don't know as I haven't researched it but I'm interested in the research on insulin.

I'm not trying to start a war, just interested in the research and ideas on insulin, metabolic set points.

soul food

Scarborough doctor's book says insulin makes you fat, fasting makes you thin

By: Michele Henry Staff reporter, Published on Mon Jan 25 2016

Dr. Jason Fung's book, The Obesity Code, argues that obesity isn’t caused by overeating, but by excessive insulin.

Dr. Jason Fung, 42, a kidney specialist and founder of Scarborough’s Intensive Dietary Managementprogram, says obesity — and even those last 10 pounds — isn’t caused by overeating, but by excessive insulin.
He discovered the real culprit of getting fat, he says, after realizing patients in his nephrology practice would get better with fewer medical interventions if they lost weight.
Since most of his patients were Type 2 diabetics — a disease associated with too much insulin — he made the link.
And the leap.
According to his new book The Obesity Code, the best, fastest, most economical and effective way to control this hormone before — or, after — it gets out of control is by fasting.
Or, at least, skipping breakfast.
So, insulin, not calories, is the real cause of obesity?
Obesity is a hormonal disease. Insulin, a hormone, tells you how much to eat and how much to burn. The body behaves as if the weight is set on a thermostat. Insulin acts to increase that thermostat. So, obesity is not about caloric imbalance. That idea is plainly wrong. That’s why cutting calories doesn’t work.

So, how are we getting too much insulin?
Snacking.

But we also need to think about meal timing.We need periods of time when we aren’t eating, so insulin can go down, leaving our bodies in energy burning mode. If we leave more time between meals — and, therefore, burning energy — we will lose weight.
So, fasting.

[Wren]

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.at/2016/01/always-hungry-its-probably-not-your.html

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.at/2016/01/testing-insulin-model-response-to-dr.html

[katgirl55]

Totally anecdotal: My friend who was diabetic for many years stayed at a weight below 200. After starting on insulin injections, she put on about 50 lbs within a couple years. Makes sense: the glucose floating around in her blood was not getting into cells before, with insulin it did. Not sure what other mechanisms of injectable insulin would cause weight gain, but I do not doubt when doctors/researchers/scientists say insulin can make you fat. What I doubt is their conclusion that sugar is the enemy.

What matters most is practical application. Those who have done low fat plant-based, versus those who do high fat/protein low carb. We are scientists in our own kitchens doing diet research.

[vgpedlr]

Not an expert, and definitely not a professional, but here is my take on the issue.

There is another guy saying insulin is the culprit, Dr. David Ludwig, but he isn't recommending fasting but I don't know as I haven't researched it but I'm interested in the research on insulin.

Ludwig has been discussed here plenty of times. I think his ideas are not always accurately explained by the media.

I'm not trying to start a war, just interested in the research and ideas on insulin, metabolic set points.

Dr. McDougall agrees with the idea of set points. My take is that set points have some validity, but that they are flexible. They can change, but requires some time and patience. I think set points are over emphasized by some so that it seems they are set in stone, which I believe is false.

Scarborough doctor's book says insulin makes you fat, fasting makes you thin

By: Michele Henry Staff reporter, Published on Mon Jan 25 2016

Dr. Jason Fung's book, The Obesity Code, argues that obesity isn’t caused by overeating, but by excessive insulin.

Yes and not quite. Yes, insulin promotes fat storage. It also promotes glycogen restoration and protein synthesis, and is therefore regarded as a performance enhancing drug. To demonize insulin as the culprit for obesity is a very incomplete message. Fasting makes you thin? Really? Isn't that obvious when looking at famines?

Dr. Jason Fung, 42, a kidney specialist and founder of Scarborough’s Intensive Dietary Managementprogram, says obesity — and even those last 10 pounds — isn’t caused by overeating, but by excessive insulin.

Unless endocrinology overrules the Laws of Physics, then no. Insulin complicates matters some, but it doesn't change the universe just yet.

He discovered the real culprit of getting fat, he says, after realizing patients in his nephrology practice would get better with fewer medical interventions if they lost weight.

People got better when they lost weight. How is this news?

Since most of his patients were Type 2 diabetics — a disease associated with too much insulin — he made the link.
And the leap.

He may have leaped, but I don't understood where he landed.

According to his new book The Obesity Code, the best, fastest, most economical and effective way to control this hormone before — or, after — it gets out of control is by fasting.

Fasting certainly has a long and successful track record, but I think following these guidelines and the principles of calorie density will yield the same or better.

So, insulin, not calories, is the real cause of obesity?

I disagree. If the excess calories aren't there, who cares about insulin? Unless hormones can magically produce energy out of thin air. Fasting works by cutting calories.

Obesity is a hormonal disease. Insulin, a hormone, tells you how much to eat and how much to burn.

This is where I want to learn more. Hormones are very powerful, and if they play a major role in appetite, then understanding that is useful.

So, obesity is not about caloric imbalance. That idea is plainly wrong.

See Sir Isaac Newton. If this is true, then the foundation of physics needs to be rewritten. I agree that metabolism is complicated, but at the end of the day, I don't see how physics is THAT wrong.

That’s why cutting calories doesn’t work.

It ALWAYS works. How much obesity do you see in a famine? Did those people luck out on insulin? That is why fasting works.

So, how are we getting too much insulin?
Snacking.

This gets closer. Different foods provoke different insulin responses. Whole, natural, foods with intact fiber do not raise insulin too much. Refined fats, carbs, and protein raise insulin a great deal. The SAD diet is to blame for raising insulin, insulin itself is not the problem. It's just doing its job.

But we also need to think about meal timing.We need periods of time when we aren’t eating, so insulin can go down, leaving our bodies in energy burning mode. If we leave more time between meals — and, therefore, burning energy — we will lose weight.
So, fasting.

Yes. By following these guidelines and eating fiber rich foods, one is satiated for longer and that is achieved. Fasting is not necessary.

I'm not a professional, but I guess I sorta play one on the internet. Just my $.02.

[soul food]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAwgdX5 ... e=youtu.be

How to Reverse Type 2 Diabetes Naturally


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcLoaVNQ3rc

The Two Big Lies of Type 2 Diabetes

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/

his blog

Dr. Fung is recommending fasting.
Like intermitent fasting.
Dr. Fung said he couldn't get his patients to eat high fat low carb.
They didn't like it. LOL


A famine is a fast. Bariatric surgery is a fast.

I thought that Ludwig guy looked familiar but nothing he was saying seemed familiar.
I guess I just blew him off.

soul food

I found the part about metabolism.

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/ ... t-problem/

Dr. Fung

Second, you could try intermittent fasting (IF). Fasting essentially burns through all the stored sugars in the fridge quickly. Will you get hungry? Yes, probably. But if you push through that, your body is forced to burn fat for energy. The metabolism does not slow down because of the compensatory hormonal changes of fasting. After several days, hunger is also suppressed – the mechanism is unknown, but likely related to the ketone production.

and how high insulin levels over time (snacking) promote insulin resistance

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/ ... esity-xii/

[soul food]

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencen ... story.html

Melissa Healy


Longer fasts might help with weight loss but Americans eat all day long

Both groups of mice ended up taking in equal calories. But the fasting mice were less likely to be obese, and had lower levels of systemic inflammation, fatty liver disease, worrisome cholesterol and metabolic disturbance than those allowed to eat whenever they wanted.

Pointing to such research, the Salk researchers have suggested that a nightly fast of 10 to 12 hours might do much more than just limit the consumption of excess calories: Even without changing daily calorie intake, a lengthy nighttime fast appears to "reset" a circadian clock disturbed by 24/7 feeding and drive up the body's ability to burn off extra calories.

Participants in this small pilot study were shown their long and erratic patterns of daily feeding, and asked to make one change only: to limit their consumption of anything with more than five calories to a 10- to 12-hour span each day, then to fast for the remaining 12 to 14 hours.

Over 16 weeks, the study participants lost an average of just over 7 pounds. They rated their sleep satisfaction and daily energy levels as increased, along with their level of nighttime hunger.

Their consumption records suggest that not all of their weight loss was the result of a metabolic reset. Participants cut their daily calories consumed by 20% on average: Unlike rats, who compensated for fasting by eating more during their brief eating day, these participants simply did without the excess food.

For the short period of time now when I have been not eating anything after supper until breakfast, about 12 hours, I notice I feel better. I have been wanting to reduce calories and it is much easier to go without eating for 12 hours then try to make my meals smaller. It is just way way easier to do.

soul food

[soul food]

I did find something on set points.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 095406.htm

April 14, 2016
Source:
University of Copenhagen The Faculty of Health and Medical Sciences
Summary:
Maintaining a stable weight loss is the biggest struggle for obese individuals, yet new research has allowed researchers new insights into the complex processes involved in obesity and especially weight loss in obesity. It is now possible to offer overweight people a clearer understanding of how to sustain weight loss.

This study shows that if an overweight person is able to maintain an initial weight loss -- in this case for a year -- the body will eventually 'accept' this new weight and thus not fight against it, as is otherwise normally the case when you are in a calorie-deficit state," says Associate Professor Signe Sorensen Torekov from the Department of Biomedical Sciences and Novo Nordisk Foundation Center for Basic Metabolic Research.

The research has recently been published in the European Journal of Endocrinology.

soul food

[Skip]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51730#p529956

[Jumpstart]

There is nothing shocking here. Dr. McDougall in number of this talks about type 2 does state that insulin makes you fat.

[soul food]

Thanks Skip.

To the 98 % of people who lose weight and can't keep it off, set points, metabolic rates, is a big deal.


edit add

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/healt ... .html?_r=1

After ‘The Biggest
Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

Contestants lost hundreds of pounds during
Season 8, but gained them back. A study
of their struggles helps explain why so many
people fail to keep off the weight they lose.

edit add

"The metabolism does not slow down because of the compensatory hormonal changes of fasting."

Dr. Fung from earlier post above

I don't know about this. I think my metabolism is slowing down but maybe from less calories consumed per day. It is hard to eat a lot of calories in a shorter period of time.
soul food

edit add

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51950&start=15

Dr. Barnard, who’s the president of the Physicians’ Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) and a professor at George Washington School of Medicine and Health Sciences, noticed that in one of his studies, after transitioning a group of individuals with chronic weight problems onto an entirely plant based diet that was low in oils, their metabolic rates (or how fast their body turned fuel into energy) seriously soared."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPi1LQHBWBk

The Calculus of Calories: Quantitative Obesity Research
saving this video to watch


I think what Dr. Fung finds shocking is that mainstream medicine is regularly prescribing insulin to type two diabetics and saying type two diabetes is irreversible and incurable. Even if you lose weight and change your numbers most medical doctors say you still have type two diabetes. But of course they don't recommend diet and lifestyle change but just lots of medicine which can have negative health consequences.



The pulsatile, circadian rhythm is a cool theory. Cool..like, simple elegant.

The factor of TIME, high insulin over TIME from constant snacking.

soul food

edit add, insulin and alzheimer's disease

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/309031.php


Alzheimer's / Dementia
Diabetes
Obesity / Weight Loss / Fitness
Study: almost half of Alzheimer's cases are due to hyperinsulinemia

rofessor Schilling compared and integrated decades of research on diabetes, Alzheimer's, and molecular chemistry, focusing in particular on results that seemed to yield conflicting results. It turns out that routine practices in research - like excluding all patients with known medical problems such as diabetes from an Alzheimer's study, for example - had obscured the mechanisms that connect the two diseases. Those main mechanisms turn out to be insulin and the enzymes that break it down. The same enzymes that break down insulin also break down amyloid-beta, the protein that forms tangles and plaques in the brains of people with Alzheimer's. When people have hyperinsulinemia (i.e., they secrete too much insulin due to a poor diet, pre-diabetes, early diabetes, obesity, etc.) the enzymes are too busy breaking down insulin to break down amyloid-beta, causing amyloid-beta to accumulate.

edit add
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 101645.htm

reatment with vitamin C dissolves toxic protein aggregates in Alzheimer's disease

Date:
August 18, 2011
Source:
Lund University
Summary:
Researchers in Sweden have discovered a new function for vitamin C. Treatment with vitamin C can dissolve the toxic protein aggregates that build up in the brain in Alzheimer's disease.

[soul food]

Just checked and found this. I haven't read it yet. Lets see how he explains this.
I added on to the above post.


The Biggest Loser Diet – Explained!
by Jason Fung |


https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/ ... explained/

soul food

[GeoffreyLevens]

Dr McDougall does agree there are set points but they are only there in terms of genetics. Changing diet composition and/or changes the set point. I think Dr Lisle has a more productive way of talking about it in terms of "equilibrium". Very well explained in this short (14 miunte) video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhBJ0R2xAp4

Not Losing Weight? Hit a Plateau? BEST SOLUTION with Dr. Doug Lisle

[soul food]

Just watched the Doug Lisle video. It's hard to believe that just walking around the block made a difference for that guy. Did he start walking longer? Here is some interesting info on exercise.

soul food

http://www.impactnottingham.com/2016/04 ... -of-bones/

The Secret Life of Bones
/ April 12, 2016 / 0
Sophie Millar

The big secret of bone that has been revealed is that it is, in fact an endocrine organ, meaning that bone cells can secrete hormones. What these hormones do exactly are still being researched and are not yet fully understood. Interest however in deducing their roles is increasing considerably. Within bone, the hormones are primarily involved in regulating the re-modelling explained above, but in the last few years a number of studies have found that they can also act outside of the skeleton and have effects in other parts of the body. It is now widely accepted that the functions of bone lie well beyond what was classically thought.

“Bones are, in fact, endocrine organs, meaning that bones cells can secrete hormones”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... ation.html

y Bill Gifford For The Daily Mail

mUSCLES ALSO HELP YOUR BRAIN

Scientists are discovering that it's not simply that jogging is cleaning out the junk food from your arteries. Your muscles are somehow communicating with your other organs to optimise their function.

In 2003, Professor Mark Febbraio, head of metabolism and inflammation at the Baker IDI Heart and Diabetes Institute in Melbourne, Australia, found that just as fat 'talks' to the rest of your body, usually saying terrible things, so does muscle.

'We discovered that muscle, when you contract it, is actually an endocrine (hormonal) organ,' says Professor Febbraio. It releases factors that 'talk' to other tissues - in other words, a muscle doesn't just get you moving.

The primary factor Professor Febbraio identified was surprising. It is a cytokine called IL-6, which is normally associated with bad things, such as age-accelerating inflammation and early death.
Scientists are discovering that it's not simply that jogging is cleaning out the junk food from your arteries. Your muscles are somehow communicating with your other organs to optimise their function

Exercise generates huge amounts of IL-6, he found, but in this context it has beneficial effects, such as signalling the liver to convert fat to fuel. 'When we made this discovery people didn't believe us, because IL-6 was considered a bad actor in many diseases,' he says.

'But in exercise it's actually anti-inflammatory.' The difference had to do with time. Obese and elderly patients tend to have constantly elevated levels of IL-6, a sign of chronic inflammation.

Normal-weight and younger patients had lower levels - but when they exercised, their IL-6 would spike to a very high level, then dissipate over a few hours.

These short bursts of IL-6, in effect, send messages to other organs, such as the liver, telling them to switch to 'exercise' mode. Since then, dozens more of these muscle-specific messengers, called myokines, have been identified. Professor Febbraio believes that there are hundreds more muscle messengers yet to be discovered, and that they are largely responsible for the myriad and complex benefits of exercise.

Some act on the brain, triggering the release of BDNF, brain-derived neurotrophic factor, which heals and protects neurons, keeping our cognitive faculties young.

Other myokines appear to work on bone, the pancreas (which secretes insulin), the immune system, and on the muscle itself, promoting growth and healing.

One newly discovered myokine even attempts to convert fat to an energy-burning system, like muscle. In 2012, a Harvard-based team identified a hormone called irisin, secreted by muscle during exercise, which tricks white fat, which is most of our fat, into acting like 'brown' fat. This brown fat is a far rarer form of fat tissue that actually burns energy.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... z47i6TGWax
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[GeoffreyLevens]

Just watched the Doug Lisle video. It's hard to believe that just walking around the block made a difference for that guy. Did he start walking longer?

Yes, not much exercise at all and I think that was/is the point. If you are doing none, a walk around the block is a huge improvement. If you are still 100 lbs overweight as he was, then it is that much more work! So overall for him, big difference

[smudgemom]

Dr. Jason Fung
He's promoting the same thing as Dr. McDougall....Diabetes IS curable, insulin-fat connection, but Dr. Fung's dietary recommendation is fasting, then basically an Akins-type of diet. How can diets, at 2 opposite ends of the spectrum, have the same result? No insulin, medication...diabetes cured.

Granted, on his YouTube channel, he only has 5-6 testimonials they cured their diabetes...and really no science behind anything.

On another forum I visit, Dr. Jason Fung's name recently came up. The same posters calling Dr. McDougall as 'quack' & 'diabetes can't be cured' are the same posters singing the praises of Dr. Fung. I guess anything can be cured if no food is entering your body, but I just see his program as a 'better bad' to the Atkins diet.

But just as some question McDougall's claims, I'm doing the same with Dr. Fung. Should I?