Is the Fox Guarding the Hen House?

[bbq]

I was watching the 1:20:00 mark of this lecture and you've gotta listen to the absurdity:

http://youtu.be/bBMlCdWQQS8#t=4800
http://www.psyli.fi/media/tapahtumia
http://www.psyli.fi/files/2100/Kirsch_Antidepressants_slideshow.pdf

• FDA - 40%
• EU - 70%
• UK - 100%

I was laughing my butts off, what a CONcept.

More articles here if you're interested:

http://www.cchrint.org/tag/irving-kirsch/

Ain't this stuff lots of fun?

Understanding NNT: Breaking Up the Numbers

In the pediatric depression meta-analysis, the response rate to antidepressants versus placebo was 60% vs 49%, respectively. So, if 100 depressed children and adolescents are treated with an antidepressant drug, 49% would respond because of placebo-related mechanisms, an additional 11% would respond because of the unique contribution of the antidepressant treatment (making the total response rate 60%), and the remaining 40% would not improve.

With regard to the NNT = 9 estimate, if 9 depressed pediatric subjects are treated with an antidepressant drug, 49% of these (4½ patients) would anyway have responded because of placebo mechanisms, 11% (1 patient) would respond because of the additional benefit associated with antidepressant treatment, and 40% (3½ patients) would not respond. The NNT, of course, does not tell us all this; it merely tells us that we need to treat 9 patients with an antidepressant for 1 additional patient to respond. Readers may pardon the reference to “half patients”; mathematics does not always work in whole numbers!

[Skip]

Given the side effects of all anti-depression drugs, isn't it logical to conclude that a placebo will provide a better outcome than the drugs themselves?

[geo]

Humming to myself "...just a teaspoon of sugar makes the medicine go down..."

The absurdity of it all...

So if my kid is clincally depressed all i got to do is spend $1 a month on a roll of SweetTarts, give them one every morning and I can expect an almost 50% success rate? Or would I be practicing medicine without a license?

Can I get an FDA drug approval for plain white sugar as an anti-depresent based on these drug trial results?

"First do no harm"...so isnt the AMA doing harm by not prescribing sugar pills and other placebo's as effective treatments?

<Sigh> There's got to be some money play on all this...

[PurplePotato]

So if my kid is clincally depressed all i got to do is spend $1 a month on a roll of SweetTarts, give them one every morning and I can expect an almost 50% success rate? Or would I be practicing medicine without a license?

According to the Cochrane Collaboration, the placebo effect is generally negligible. So you could probably skip the SweetTarts and just give your kid fresh air for the same benefit. Get your free air while you can, I hear GlaxoSmithKline may be patenting oxygen

[colonyofcells]

If do not like drugs, there is also electro convulsive therapy which can be effective but can also cause some memory loss.

[Risto]

I was watching the 1:20:00 mark of this lecture and you've gotta listen to the absurdity:

http://youtu.be/bBMlCdWQQS8#t=4800
http://www.psyli.fi/media/tapahtumia
http://www.psyli.fi/files/2100/Kirsch_Antidepressants_slideshow.pdf

Thanks for that! I had read about the situation and was aware of the effectiveness and lackthereof of those drugs, but it's still an interesting presentation.

For the record, Suomen psykologiliitto or Psyli is the Finnish association of psychologists, and the title of that seminar, "Mitä tehdä masennukselle ja sen hoidolle?" translates literally as "What to do to depression and its treatment?". The two Finnish-language presentations in the other video are about the current best practices and the state of the treatment in Finland (Olavi Lindfors), and the current scientific understanding of depression (Aku Kopakkala). Both seem to very much agree with Kirsch. Kopakkala mentions that there are half a million people in Finland (population 5.5 million) on antidepressants that do nothing or worse.

I happen to have created English subtitles for Finnish Youtube videos before, but that one is almost two hours long, so maybe not...

[bbq]

Science of Medicine and Art of Healing, or more like Flatulence of Medicine and Fart of (making a) Killing?

“Does Your Soul Have A Cold?” (the title comes from the advertising slogan used by British pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline) introduces viewers to sufferers with varying degrees of depression who all take antidepressants. Only two of the five participants are undergoing psychotherapy or counseling in addition to drug treatment, and one man, whose depression has led to a condition known as “hikikomori,” a state in which the sufferer is unable to leave home, insists on downing his medication with large amounts of alcohol.

Mills paints a bleak picture of Japanese mental health by contrasting gray images of a rainy, overcrowded Tokyo with the distraught lives of these people. One young woman admits, “I’m happiest when I’m asleep because I don’t have to think about wanting to die.”

In a brief interview after the film was screened recently at the Los Angeles Film Festival, Mills commented, “GlaxoSmithKline has done a lot to educate about depression (in Japan). It’s just weird when someone feels so bad and then a drug company like GlaxoSmithKline tries to make a profit off of them.”

SXSW 2007: Mike Mills (Does Your Soul Have a Cold?)
http://youtu.be/I3lBTT9BSO8

Does Your Soul Have a Cold - exerpt
https://vimeo.com/59464085

Mike Mills speaking to students at the University of Arizona School of Theatre, Film & Television
https://vimeo.com/46113428

A cold of the soul: A Japanese case of disease mongering in psychiatry
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22751193

In Japan, depression provides the most drastic example of the impact of disease awareness campaigns. Until the late 1990 s, the public's attitude toward depression was generally unfavorable, due to the negative connotations of the Japanese word for clinical depression, 'utsubyou'. After the 1999 introduction of the first selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor, pharmaceutical companies initiated educational campaigns. In order to aid the drug's acceptance, they coined the catchphrase 'kokoro no kaze', which literally means 'a cold of the soul'. Thanks to these marketing practices, antidepressant sales have increased six fold, from ¥ 14.5 billion in 1998 to ¥ 87 billion in 2006. However, the catchphrase 'kokoro no kaze' masked a critical difference between a cold and depression. It falsified the nature of treatment for depression by concealing the putative duration of medication. Owing to this distortion of information, pharmaceutical companies were assured a steady stream of profits. Now, the pharmaceutical industry is shifting its focus from depression to bipolar disorder. Japanese psychiatrists can learn a great deal from their experience with the aggressive marketing of antidepressants. In the case of depression, over-medication arguably did more harm than good. The same risk exists with other conditions, including bipolar disorder.

Konnichiwa. Here are some pills for your soul, it's getting chilly out there and you've gotta take care of that cold.

Thanks Dr. Woo. I'm taking your heartfelt advice to heart, I'll do whatever you've told me for the rest of my life and never get better. Sayonara.

[bbq]

• 80 million prescriptions for psychiatric drugs are written in UK every year
• Psychiatric drugs are the third major killer after heart disease and cancer
• Professor Gøtzsche reveals the scale of the issue in a new book
• Luke Montagu, 45, heir to the Earl of Sandwich, was wrongly prescribed anti-depressants which took him seven years to detox from

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3234334/Prescription-pills-Britain-s-biggest-killer-effects-drugs-taken-insomnia-anxiety-kill-thousands-doctors-hand-like-Smarties.html

Q: What is Britain’s 3rd biggest killer?
A: Prescription psychiatric drugs
http://anhinternational.org/2015/09/16/q-britains-3rd-biggest-killer/

Deadly Psychiatry and Organised Denial
http://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Psychiatry-Organised-Denial-Gotzsche-ebook/dp/B014SO7GHS
http://www.deadlymedicines.dk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Gøtzsche-Deadly-Psychiatry-chapter-1.pdf

Peter Gøtzsche
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/myncbi/peter.gotzsche.1/comments/

Man, that guy's comments were surely spicy.

[bbq]

Prof Irving Kirsch
The Placebo Effect Versus Antidepressants
http://overcomingdepressionandanxiety.com/day_3/prof-irving-kirsch-2/
https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/hms-expert.videos/IrvingKirschInterview_Final.mp4

[bbq]

Irving Kirsch - Antidepressant & Pharmaceutical Industry
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCFNve_pDjz_oL-6nSMIIrL58G2Eo8fqN

http://youtu.be/NuyHi7ljWF4
Irving Kirsch Ph.D. — Interview
http://www.therealtruthabouthealth.com/2015-conference-replays/watch/83/irving-kirsch-phd-interview

http://youtu.be/UC5RZRG7-QQ
Dr. Irving Kirsch - The Emperor's New Drugs: Exploding the Antidressant Myth
http://www.therealtruthabouthealth.com/watch/14/irving-kirsch-phd-the-emperors-new-drugs-exploding-antidepressant-myth

http://youtu.be/4tAGqPcethw
Margaret Paul & Irving Kirsch - Depression and Emotional Upset. What Really Works to Reverse it.
http://www.therealtruthabouthealth.com/2015-conference-replays/watch/61/depression-and-emotional-upset-what-really-works-to-reverse-it-according-the-unbiased-research-real-world-results-working-with-thousands-of-patients

According to Irving Kirsch, Associate Director of the Program in Placebo Studies at the Harvard Medical School, “the theory that depression is the result of chemical imbalances in the brain has been repeatedly disproven.”

Kirsch goes on to argue that since this is the case it makes no sense to treat depression with chemicals if the problem is not rooted in an imbalance in the brain.

Irving Kirsch is joined by Margaret Paul, Ph.D. on this expert panel. Listen as these two experts on depression, psychology, and relationships, with incredible real world experience with thousands of patients, discuss natural ways to reverse depression without drugs.

Learn about what the FDA knows about the 40% of drug trials it did not publish.

Hear from placebo expert, Irving Kirsch, about the astounding results of his research on the effect of placebos on fighting depression.

Hear also in this free video from relationship expert, Margaret Paul, about the relationship between what people are eating and how they are treating themselves to depression.

She says, “after more than forty years of treating people with depression the overwhelming common factors have been how people dealt with their feelings and how they’ve treated their gut.”

There are alternatives to treating depression. If you or a loved one is fighting depression, take advantage of this free opportunity to learn more.

[petero]

I think this lack of efficacy of antidepressants was known since a Cochrane Review came out. They are only somewhat more effective (11% sounds about right) than placebo for major depression, and for more minor cases they are no more effective. And then there's the problem of statistics not being explanation. Some people will be happier when they're on drugs that have a similar effect to LSD. Imagine that.

The whole idea that depression is an organic "disease" based on low neurotransmitter levels is a post hoc fallacy that I assume was sold to a gullible public by the drug manufacturers themselves. I don't really believe there is such a thing as a discrete "disease" to be called "depression". It's a symptom of something else. In fact I join Jung in saying that depression is a sign that psychic movement has to take place. It's certainly been corroborated by personal experience.

The side effects alone would make them useless at best, dangerous at worst. Psychiatric drugs just manage symptoms, so they should only be used when absolutely necessary. They don't solve any problems, though.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/pa ... epressants

...but to answer your question, yes it is.

[Jumpstart]

What has to be recognized is that every single mass shooter all the way back to Columbine was on Doctor/School prescribed psychotropic drugs from the time they were in early grade school. Just imagine what these powerful drugs do to a young developing mind. Often these kids are on more than one drug. It is estimated that 2 of every 5 male children by the time they leave grade school has been on one or more of these drugs. Time to stop drugging our male children.

[bbq]

The Mortality and Myocardial Effects of Antidepressants Are Moderated by Preexisting Cardiovascular Disease: A Meta-Analysis
http://sci-hub.cc/10.1159/000477940
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/477940

Antidepressants associated with significantly elevated risk of death, researchers find
http://dailynews.mcmaster.ca/article/antidepressants-associated-with-significantly-elevated-risk-of-death-researchers-find/

Warning for those on antidepressants: The commonly prescribed drugs raise the risk of an early death by 33%, controversial study finds
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4882420/Antidepressants-raise-risk-early-death-33.html

• The drugs do more harm than good, researchers say, and their use should be cut
• Psychiatrists disputed this and argued that they have been safely used for years
• McMaster University in Canada analysed the impact on nearly 380,000 people

Safe? Of course it's "safe" when they're doing the "right" things:

Prozac data was kept from trial, suit says
https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/media/ssri/prozac_data_kept_from_trial.htm

Prozac Revisited: Concerns About Suicides Surface – Boston Globe
http://ahrp.org/prozac-revisited-concerns-about-suicides-surface-boston-globe/