Flu Shot

[StarchHEFP]

Just a little rant. I feel awful. Woke up achy...full body achy...I had a "mandatory" flu shot on Monday...I risk immediate termination and cannot work unless I comply with the flu shot because I do not have a valid reason like egg allergy or a doctor's note exempting me from the requirement. I was not given the option to wear a mask during the entire flu season that some nurses and healthcare professionals are given. Because I'm a traveling nurse, I have to follow the policy of the strictest state. Mandatory Vaccination. My left arm is flaming hot. My shot was given too high on my deltoid...almost right where my shoulder joint is...I'm bruised. I'm not happy. I've been assaulted and my fundamental right to refuse treatment does not apply because I am a nurse.
I've spent some time this morning, doing research, and trying to figure out if I can avoid this chemical assault next year. There is an interesting video by Dr. Mark Geier in this article so I wanted to share it. I am not anti-vaccine. I do not get a flu shot for myself normally because I do not fall into a risk category that would warrant flu vaccination.
https://healthimpactnews.com/2014/boston-nurses-speak-out-against-mandatory-flu-shots/

I understand your dilemma as a healthcare provider myself. I didn't want to take the flu vaccine similar to you. Our local hospital has terminated nurses due to refusal to do a mandatory flu vaccine, so there really is no other option. As far as egg allergy or a doctor's note, this will not fly because there is no exception. Let me make some suggestions to make the process less painful next year. First of all, ask for Flublok which I gave to myself. It is an egg-free vaccine with no eggs used anywhere in the manufacturing process. There is no preservative as it comes in single dose vials. Only 1-2 days of soreness at the injection site. However, the injection has to be done very carefully to avoid pain / inflammation: (1) demand that a different needle be used to draw up the vaccine than the one used to inject it, because this causes less pain because the needle is not dulled from sticking it into the vial first. I keep some 18-gauge needles on hand just for that purpose. (2) ask for or bring your own syringe, that is, a 1 cc syringe with a 5/8", 25-27 gauge needle. I am assuming that you may only have a thin layer of subcutaneous fat. Often a needle is used that goes too deep for comfort instead. Ask that ONLY 0.5 CC of vaccine be drawn up, because usually the vial contains a little extra, and the air be completely expulsed from the syringe before injection (3) mark with an "x" the "meatiest" part of your deltoid (4) assure that the person injecting it goes in with a smooth, quick motion in, injects slowly, and pulls straight out. A fast injection is much more painful as it causes more trauma to the muscle and (5) place an ice pack immediately afterwards for about 5 minutes, to reduce inflammation, and later that day, a hot pack to relax the muscle and to distribute the vaccine into the deltoid. Lastly, this step is optional, before injection hold the syringe in your hand long enough that the liquid inside is warmed up to your skin's temperature, this causes less pain also.

These are my humble suggestions for causing the least harm possible. I'm afraid you have no other options other than to work to switch jobs! Sometimes you have to accept more pain than usual. You can always try to tell them how much of a reaction you had this year, and try to bring a doctors' note but I don't think that will be accepted.

I just gave myself the shot this year because I wanted to make sure that I got the "flublok" and that I used the smallest, shortest needle, and gave it exactly where it was needed. I think it hurt less to give to myself than I remember someone else giving it to me in the past. Last year, I too received the useless flu vaccine, and was ill with influenza for a few days. I also chose not to take the "Tamiflu" and let the illness run its course. My other family members weren't so lucky, and ended up getting the flu from me, and eventually had no choice but to take the Tamiflu to make them better. I even quarantined myself for 2 days, and sent my family elsewhere to try not to get them sick! But the virus continues to shed for about 5-7 days even after fever goes away.

Here are a couple articles arguing for exemptions to vaccination requirements and another one arguing for mandatory requirement without exemptions. At least you can get both sides of the debate and make your own decision.
http://www.nursingworld.org/MainMenuCategories/ANAMarketplace/ANAPeriodicals/OJIN/TableofContents/Vol152010/No1Jan2010/Articles-Previous-Topic/Mandatory-Influenza-Vaccination-in-Healthcare-Workers.html
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC0QFjACahUKEwjR0pz9l7HIAhUDMz4KHTY7Bs0&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sdiz.org%2Fdocuments%2FHCP%2FSDIB-Bulletins%2FRationale-for-Mandated-Influenza-Vaccination-for-HC-Personnel-FINAL.pdf&usg=AFQjCNH2-PDYctb2saO3xwKrQ7KAFm4WkA&sig2=_PeUqMHweYZe0Ckt9jcIcQ

[Vanilla Orchid]

I took the shot. I have had the flu before and hated it. Don't want it again. Don't want to give it to anyone else. Period. So, my arm was a bit sore. Big deal!

[wade4veg]

I'm getting a flu shot.,.. they're free for Kaiser members

Other than a sore arm for a day, what danger...

30,000 people die each year from the flu. How many die from eating GMO food?
I'm now 65.... time for extra precautions regarding the flu.

Will it work, will it help... probably some, but no guarantee. Perhaps I'll get two shots to double the protection

[Thrasymachus]

I don't think it is a coincidence that the posters involved in the health-care industry like WyldMoonWoman, Mrs. Doodlepunk and StarchHEFP are much less true believers in vaccines, especially flu vaccines than some other posters. Dr. McDougall is normally pro vaccine but against flu vaccines after seeing two of his patients becoming paralyzed after vaccination:
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/may/swine.htm
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2014nl/nov/flushot.htm

Since my dad has colon cancer, I have searched and found this very revealing article:
Most doctors who were terminally ill would AVOID aggressive treatments such as chemotherapy - despite recommending it to their patients

Health care professionals see the side effects of the "best" treatments medical orthodoxy has on a daily basis in many, many different people of various backgrounds and tend to realize what they are doing is not very effective on some level and are less liable to believe they will be some miracle exception. Just yesterday I tried to give a fax phone number to my father over the phone and after 20 tries and great frustration he still didn't have it right because that is how sick chemotherapy makes people, it reduces you to a worse than child like state of dementia. People like Esselstyn are ridiciuled by colleagues but often enough when they or a family member have advanced coronary blockages those same sneering peers seem more ready than the general public to give diet a try.

I will exercise my individual rights so they are not taken away. If the goal is to prevent the most deaths, then take away the right to drink alcohol. About 50% of fatal vehicle accidents involve alcohol. So why do they allow parking lots at bars? About 12 or 13,000 people a year are killed by guns. Let's take away the right to own guns.

So much that! If the government is going to take away "freedoms" let them take away freedoms take away negative freedoms like gun ownership, cigarettes or alcohol, but not the right to avoid the most dangerous assaults to personal health from mainstream medicine. Not to mention that the emissions of cars alone cause 100,000 premature deaths in the USA and about 40,000 deaths from car accidents. Incase anyone hasn't noticed the purpose of modern governments is to secure corporate profit and protect capitalists from themselves. So they tend to side with big industries against the public's interests and public health again and again.

[Gershon]

I'm getting a flu shot.,.. they're free for Kaiser members

Other than a sore arm for a day, what danger...

30,000 people die each year from the flu. How many die from eating GMO food?
I'm now 65.... time for extra precautions regarding the flu.

Will it work, will it help... probably some, but no guarantee. Perhaps I'll get two shots to double the protection

What is your source?

[StarchHEFP]

I'm getting a flu shot.,.. they're free for Kaiser members

Other than a sore arm for a day, what danger...

30,000 people die each year from the flu. How many die from eating GMO food?
I'm now 65.... time for extra precautions regarding the flu.

Will it work, will it help... probably some, but no guarantee. Perhaps I'll get two shots to double the protection

What is your source?

That number (30,000) is a very wild estimate at best. Even the CDC admits to this:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us_flu-related_deaths.htm

Vaccine effectiveness - very variable. Even the CDC estimates "effectiveness" of 10-60%:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/vaccination/effectiveness-studies.htm

Cochrane database finds that about 71 adults need to be vaccinated to prevent 1 case of influenza:
http://www.cochrane.org/CD001269/ARI_vaccines-to-prevent-influenza-in-healthy-adults

For children under age 2, vaccine is comparable to placebo:
http://www.cochrane.org/CD004879/ARI_vaccines-for-preventing-influenza-in-healthy-children

Know 1 thing, many studies are biased because they are funded by industry. According to Cochrane collaboration,

Studies funded from public sources were significantly less likely to report conclusions favourable to the vaccines

In conclusion, medicine/pharmaceutical industry is a racket, and much of the so called "evidence" is tainted by industry money. Don't believe everything you hear in the press.

Again, given the above, I've found a kinder, gentler flu vaccine and also the confidence to know that chickens were not harmed in the production of them, I'll take my Flublok to keep my job. I know that there are still warnings of Guillain Barre syndrome (I have personally seen a few cases of this, some were caused by a natural viral infection and not the vaccine). I paid 3 times of what it costs for the regular flu vaccine to get my Flublok. I'm still skeptical that it will protect me in case of flu, but at least it's not going to kill me (I hope!)

[wade4veg]

I'm getting a flu shot.,.. they're free for Kaiser members

Other than a sore arm for a day, what danger...

30,000 people die each year from the flu. How many die from eating GMO food?
I'm now 65.... time for extra precautions regarding the flu.

Will it work, will it help... probably some, but no guarantee. Perhaps I'll get two shots to double the protection

What is your source?

OK, 3,000 to 49,000
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us ... deaths.htm

Now people here get all upset about GMO foods..
Tell me, how many people died last year (or any year) from eating GMO foods?

Yet most people who question flu deaths and the vaccine danger, are hugely scared about eating GMO foods where proven harm is nil.

Seems like when they dislike something, people demand perfect data, yet on other counts, they're happy to rely on scary stories.

[Gershon]

I'm getting a flu shot.,.. they're free for Kaiser members

Other than a sore arm for a day, what danger...

30,000 people die each year from the flu. How many die from eating GMO food?
I'm now 65.... time for extra precautions regarding the flu.

Will it work, will it help... probably some, but no guarantee. Perhaps I'll get two shots to double the protection

What is your source?

OK, 3,000 to 49,000
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us ... deaths.htm

That is not a good source. It is not even an educated guess. A good source would be a peer reviewed study. Not numbers made up decades after the fact. It's CDC propaganda.

There would also be a peer reviewed double blind study showing the vaccinations worked each year.

[Gershon]

That is not a good source. It is not even an educated guess. A good source would be a peer reviewed study. Not numbers made up decades after the fact. It's CDC propaganda.

There would also be a peer reviewed double blind study showing the vaccinations worked each year.

Oh OK... stay away from a flu shot... After all, you don't have perfect information on the dangers or deaths from the flu... and the huge danger from the vaccine is that you may get a sore arm for a couple days.

The CDC does mention fatal side effects, but gives no indication of the numbers. It's not just a sore arm for a couple days. If you want to take the flu shot, that's your choice. Where I object is forcing people to take the flu shot.

Now, regarding your demands for "quality" peer reviewed studies or articles regarding plant based diets and their benefit for cardiovascular disease, I guess you won't be relying on the studies by Caldwell Esselstyn or Dean Ornish or Pritikin.
After all, their studies/articles really don't meet with your high standards.

When the supporter of a position uses sarcasm and untruths to prove their point, my tendency is to reject the position without further study. This type of thing and worse is what vaxxers use for their support. They hope to draw the people who are against mandatory vaccinations into an unrelated side discussion.

Since you stated, "After all, their studies/articles really don't meet with your high standards," then prove it.

Please note: I'm not trying to start an internet fight that will result in bad feelings, although I may be too late. What I'm pointing out is how propaganda works and how those against vaccinations are ruthlessly attacked by those with no scientific information.

This is the second time you have tried to draw me into a side issue, and I'll have no part of it.

[wade4veg]

[quote="Gershon"] the supporter of a position uses sarcasm and untruths to prove their point, my tendency is to reject the position without further study. This type of thing and worse is what vaxxers use for their support. They hope to draw the people who are against mandatory vaccinations into an unrelated side discussion. .[/?]

"vaxxers"

I see, is that the term? I guess those who promote polio vaccinations, as well as mandatory whooping cough vaccinations for children entering school, would fall into the "vaxxers" category.

What exactly is a "vaxxer".

I guess hospitals and health organizations that demand that nurses get flu shots to protect their vulnerable patients would be classified as "vaxxers".

[Gershon]

Wade,

Where is the proof that having health care workers get the flu shot protects vulnerable patients? Here is the CDC's recommendation: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/healthcareworkers.htm. Where are the numbers that show a correlation between the health care workers getting the flu shot and the incidence of the flu among patients? This should be a simple study with easy reporting requirements. The absence of such a study is suspicious.

[MINNIE]

I think that a nurse should be allowed to refuse a flu shot. I think that a patient should be informed that a nurse has not had a flu shot, and to request one who has had one if that's their preference.

That seems fair to all parties involved.

[wade4veg]

The absence of such a study is suspicious.

I get the distinct impression that you are against all or nearly all vaccinations. I could be wrong, but when I see the use of the term "vaxxers" it sounds like one is including most vaccinations.

Do you suggest not getting a polio vaccination? whooping cough? If you are of a certain age, were you against the small pox vaccination?'

California finally passed a law removing the "personal and religious belief exemptions" for children wanting to attend public schools. (of course, that does not apply to the flu vaccine, but does apply to whooping cough)
In the more serious diseases, too many parents are trying to have their children get a free ride on the backs of others, thinking they'll be safe because the herd is safe.

[wade4veg]

I think that a nurse should be allowed to refuse a flu shot. I think that a patient should be informed that a nurse has not had a flu shot, and to request one who has had one if that's their preference.

That seems fair to all parties involved.

You can't run and staff a major hospital with certain nurses not being able to attend to this patient or that patient.
Nurses can need to attend to a patient on a moments notice.. Are you going to wait around until you page the appropriate nurse and she shows up?

If you don't like the rules... find work at a hospital that doesn't have the flu shot requirement.

In short, a employer doesn't have to be "fair" to everyone in making their work place requirements. Now, if the issue is negotiated between a hospital and a nurses union, that is up to them.

[Jack Monzon]

Flu shots are a sham.