Flu Shot

[WyldMoonWoman]

Just a little rant. I feel awful. Woke up achy...full body achy...I had a "mandatory" flu shot on Monday...I risk immediate termination and cannot work unless I comply with the flu shot because I do not have a valid reason like egg allergy or a doctor's note exempting me from the requirement. I was not given the option to wear a mask during the entire flu season that some nurses and healthcare professionals are given. Because I'm a traveling nurse, I have to follow the policy of the strictest state. Mandatory Vaccination. My left arm is flaming hot. My shot was given too high on my deltoid...almost right where my shoulder joint is...I'm bruised. I'm not happy. I've been assaulted and my fundamental right to refuse treatment does not apply because I am a nurse.

I've spent some time this morning, doing research, and trying to figure out if I can avoid this chemical assault next year. There is an interesting video by Dr. Mark Geier in this article so I wanted to share it. I am not anti-vaccine. I do not get a flu shot for myself normally because I do not fall into a risk category that would warrant flu vaccination.

https://healthimpactnews.com/2014/boston-nurses-speak-out-against-mandatory-flu-shots/

[JWinchel]

I had to get a flu shot this year also (offered at work for free) due to my husband being diagnosed with leukemia just over a month ago. His immune system is severely compromised and I cannot infect him with anything, and I'm getting worried now that the weather's changing that I'll catch a cold or worse. So, for the first time in over 10 years, I've gotten a flu shot, not for me, but for him. It was a painful shot and left an ache in my arm for 2 days if I touched it, but that's the only adverse effect so far.

[Mrs. Doodlepunk]

Thanks for posting this. Being required to have a flu shot is probably the only reason why I have not returned to work as a nurse.

[Gershon]

As a retired Air Force pilot, I know sometimes we have to fight for our freedom to keep it, even though it may be inconvenient. People think this is only in battle, but the battle can be everyday lives. When we are asked to do something we know is wrong, we should refuse to do it regardless of the consequences.

As a Jewish person, I know I've had to fight for my Sabbath many times. When I was a financial adviser, the home office wanted to do an audit of my office on a Friday afternoon in the winter. As it would have broken my Sabbath, I refused, even though they threatened to fire me. They finally relented and came in the morning. The irony was, the woman who audited me was a Palestinian, and she thanked me for insisting on remembering the Sabbath so she could get home to observe hers.

We are headed down the path of dozens of mandatory immunizations every year, not only for children, but for adults. Is it a stretch to prohibit people from using public transportation if their shots are not up to date? Is it a stretch to imagine getting 100 vaccinations a year costing a couple hundred dollars apiece? This is where today's gradualism of mandatory vaccinations is heading. It's only a matter of time before it gets there.

Back to the Air Force. Back in the late 70's conditions were not too favorable for pilots. There was a shortage of pilots and we had to work much overtime. One time I had to work 85 days in a row, with many of them being 12 and 16 hour days. Then pilots started "voting with their feet." Those who could left the Air Force and became civilian pilots.

Nurses are on the front lines of the mandatory vaccine battle, so they need to fight that battle. If they can't work without the flu shot, then they should "vote with their feet."

Parents of schoolchildren are on the front lines of this battle. Whether the shots work or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is this government incursion into our lives. Don't give me the "healthy herd" crap. We see what happens in feedlots with all the shots. Children will have to join this battle. They have two weapons. One is failing all government run testing like "Common Core." The other is not coming to school during "show week" where the state determines how many students the state will pay for.

Freedom costs, and when the need arises, we must be willing to pay for it. Otherwise, we will continue to lose what freedoms we have left. For instance, the government could insist all people eat their idea of a healthy diet or lose benefits like Social Security. Don't think this is far-fetched. They wouldn't let a client's mother come home from assisted living because there wasn't any milk, cheese or meat in their refrigerator.

Those who are unwilling to fight for their freedom should not complain when they lose it.

[WyldMoonWoman]

Unfortunately, I need to work. My work situation falls into a grey area. If I was not a traveler, I would be entitled to unemployment benefits if I was fired for refusing the flu shot in NJ where I am currently on assignment...but I work for an agency and those rules do not apply to me. I cannot risk immediate termination because my personal financial situation would be dire. I am the sole provider in my household with a disabled spouse, lack of income would be devastating. I can stir the pot, I can verbalize my concerns, I can consult an attorney...but at the same time, I have to think about my livelihood. I was not granted the option to wear a mask for the duration of flu season. I was backed into a corner and had to comply.

[Katydid]

I had severe chronic asthma for years prior to finding this program. As a result, my lungs are a mass of scar tissue. Any infection - even a simple cold or flu - can put me in the hospital or kill me. Even if this year's flu shot only lowered my risk by 10% (and I think I saw on the news that they think it will be a better match this year) I would take it. And while I understand that those of you in the "low risk category" may not wish to bother with a "useless" flu shot, those of us who ARE at risk appreciate it when you chose (or I'm sorry - are forced) to get the shots in order to lower the risk of infecting someone like me. So thank you, WyldMoonWoman, and I'm sorry for your pain.

[WyldMoonWoman]

I had severe chronic asthma for years prior to finding this program. As a result, my lungs are a mass of scar tissue. Any infection - even a simple cold or flu - can put me in the hospital or kill me. Even if this year's flu shot only lowered my risk by 10% (and I think I saw on the news that they think it will be a better match this year) I would take it. And while I understand that those of you in the "low risk category" may not wish to bother with a "useless" flu shot, those of us who ARE at risk appreciate it when you chose (or I'm sorry - are forced) to get the shots in order to lower the risk of infecting someone like me. So thank you, WyldMoonWoman, and I'm sorry for your pain.

I would prefer to wear a mask to protect you, I did for the past two years for the entire duration of flu season. Wearing a mask 12+ hours a day for months and months gave me a rash and acne like bumps around my mouth and nose. I did not complain. I was allowed to refuse the vaccination if I wore the mask, and gladly accepted masking as a compromise. I was not given the mask alternative this year, so while I accept your thanks, I do feel that mandatory vaccination without the option to refuse is assault and violates my basic human right to refuse treatment.

[Gershon]

I had severe chronic asthma for years prior to finding this program. As a result, my lungs are a mass of scar tissue. Any infection - even a simple cold or flu - can put me in the hospital or kill me. Even if this year's flu shot only lowered my risk by 10% (and I think I saw on the news that they think it will be a better match this year) I would take it. And while I understand that those of you in the "low risk category" may not wish to bother with a "useless" flu shot, those of us who ARE at risk appreciate it when you chose (or I'm sorry - are forced) to get the shots in order to lower the risk of infecting someone like me. So thank you, WyldMoonWoman, and I'm sorry for your pain.

Katydid,

I'm a on a bit of a rant here because I had a good 5 1/2 mile walk this morning, and I spent two hours aerobically cleaning the house. In other words, I'm fired up with an overdose of healthy oxygen in my system.

The obese person who eats poorly is more likely to be a carrier of the flu virus and many other viruses and bacteria because their immune system has been compromised by meat and dairy products. It doesn't really matter if they get the shot or not, as we know they are only slightly effective, if at all.

Thank me for being healthy and never having had the flu, even without shots. Thank me for staying healthy and not having a cold or any other illness to pass on since 1995. Thank me for exercising every day and eating well so I'm unlikely to pass on any sickness because I don't get them. This way of eating coupled with a dose of exercise protects people against most diseases.

Don't worry, I won't infect you, because I won't get infected.

Health does not come from the point of a needle or from a bottle of pills except in a small percentage of cases. Yes, there are some vaccines that have worked like small pox. Others prevent diseases that aren't a threat to people who take care of themselves.

[bbq]

I'm not making this stuff up, these guys are real conventional doctors who would rather help patients with nutrition rather than drugs:

Vitamin C Prevents Vaccination Side Effects; Increases Effectiveness
by Thomas E Levy, MD, JD
http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v08n07.shtml

Very similar considerations exist for older individuals receiving any of a number of vaccinations for preventing infection, such as the yearly flu shots. When there is really no urgency, and there rarely is, such individuals should supplement with vitamin C for several weeks before and several weeks after, if at all possible.

Even taking a one-time dose of vitamin C in the dosage range suggested above directly before the injections can still have a significant toxin-neutralizing and antibody-stimulating effect. It's just that an even better likelihood of having a positive outcome results from extending the pre- and post-dosing periods of time.

Johns Hopkins University, 1968-72—B.A., Biology
Tulane University School of Medicine, 1972-76—M.D.
University of Denver College of Law, 1995-98—J.D.

Post-Graduate Training:
Internship and Internal Medicine Residency, 1976-79, Tulane University Affiliated Hospitals
Fellowship in Cardiology, 1979-81, Tulane University Affiliated Hospitals

How to Determine a Therapeutic Dose of Vitamin C, by Robert F. Cathcart, MD
http://www.doctoryourself.com/titration.html

[dynodan62]

I usually get my flu shot at the VA, coincidental with my regular clinic visits. A friend gets her's at the local drugstore, because she can request the Mercury-free version (age appropriate double dose, and paid for by Medicare). From either source, it comes down to blind faith acceptance. It's not like other consumer goods, where you could study customer Internet reviews or consumer report technical evaluations, and then order the best product for the best price and then self administer. I have to trust that the VA excercises some quality control of their drug suppliers, and does not routinely administer outdated/inappropriate vaccines to their veteran patients since they would only inherit the expense of any health complications down the road. The inherent gov. agency paternalism would also make any request I made re: Mercury preservatives & other vaccine details futile, as they likely just tell patients what they want to hear.
My friend who visits the drugstore also has no guaranty the vaccine they give her is not outdated/inappropriate or contaminated, since private business interests have no conscience, and the bottom line will likely dictate any ethical consideration. She does not have a scientific background, so is quite vulnerable to deception. The inability of Medicare to adequately police medical/insurance fraud also makes her choice a genuine crap-shoot. The poor slobs who received conaminated injections from the compounding pharmacy that eventually went bankrupt are a perfect example of the dangers of poorly regulated private enterprise.
While my immune system is likely stronger than most others my age (WFPB), and being retired, I can largely avoid people during flu season, I still must occasionally interact with sales clerks & fellow shoppers. I thus welcome the additional immunity a flu shot may provide, since there are apparently so many 'Typhoid Marys' out there exercising their 'individual rights'!

[Debbie]

A whole lot of wisdom in this thread. It makes me sad to think anyone is forced to inject something into their bodies for the sake of keeping or returning to a job.

Like the story of the mother not being able to come home cause there was no milk in the fridge....I have a friend that is a "homesteader". They raise all their own food, veggies and animals. They were just just told they could NOT adopt a child because they refused to buy meat and milk from the grocery store. Even outside a McDougall'ers stand point....they still eat meat and milk and such, but because its not purchased from a grocery, it is invalid. She posted the letter and I am appalled that a child who needs a home cannot get one simply because they raise their own food. This system of ours is broken and flawed.


Only 1 of my children received a flu shot. she was 6 months old and the doctor told me she would die if she didnt get it and got the flu....not maybe die....*would* die, basically he scared into a corner and I caved. She is now 10 and has had the flu once, in kindergarten, her first year in the school system. In fact, we all got the flu that year. 2010 was the year....All 3 of my children had perfect attendance last year....they didn't even get a cold. This year, 2 of mine got a little simple cold...gone in 2 days. We are shot free.

[Gershon]

I thus welcome the additional immunity a flu shot may provide, since there are apparently so many 'Typhoid Marys' out there exercising their 'individual rights'!

You are welcome to disagree with me, but I will not tolerate being called a name like "Typhoid Mary" or any other derogatory name people give to those of us who choose not to take vaccines. Dehumanizing people by calling them names is the first tool used by the rich and powerful to disenfranchise, imprison and murder others. I will not tolerate this.

I will exercise my individual rights so they are not taken away. If the goal is to prevent the most deaths, then take away the right to drink alcohol. About 50% of fatal vehicle accidents involve alcohol. So why do they allow parking lots at bars? About 12 or 13,000 people a year are killed by guns. Let's take away the right to own guns.

Every person has a responsibility to maintain their own health. When they accept this responsibility, they feel empowered. If they don't accept this responsibility, my getting the flu shot is not going to help them. If the flu doesn't get them, something else will. No longer are they at the whim of faith healing doctors with cures that don't cure. No longer are they forced to accept "protocol" as the reason for deciding on a treatment. No longer are they dependent on insurance company decisions to treat or not treat the results of a lifetime of indiscretions. They can accept the responsibility and become empowered to control their own life.

I've decided I have the early stages of every disease that can be cured through diet and exercise, and I have the power to cure them. As Jack Lalanne said, "Every day is a battle for our health and every day we need to go out and fight that battle." Diet is one leg of the cure. Exercise is another leg. Mental well being is another leg. There are others, and they all need attention. All these need to become so habitual that they fall into the background of our consciousness in the same way that breathing does.

Then go enjoy life.

[docscience]

This makes it simple for me to explain my viewpoint, so I feel the need to respond. I am with "Gershon" on this one.

[Mrs. Doodlepunk]

I usually get my flu shot at the VA, coincidental with my regular clinic visits. A friend gets her's at the local drugstore, because she can request the Mercury-free version (age appropriate double dose, and paid for by Medicare). From either source, it comes down to blind faith acceptance. It's not like other consumer goods, where you could study customer Internet reviews or consumer report technical evaluations, and then order the best product for the best price and then self administer. I have to trust that the VA excercises some quality control of their drug suppliers, and does not routinely administer outdated/inappropriate vaccines to their veteran patients since they would only inherit the expense of any health complications down the road. The inherent gov. agency paternalism would also make any request I made re: Mercury preservatives & other vaccine details futile, as they likely just tell patients what they want to hear.
My friend who visits the drugstore also has no guaranty the vaccine they give her is not outdated/inappropriate or contaminated, since private business interests have no conscience, and the bottom line will likely dictate any ethical consideration. She does not have a scientific background, so is quite vulnerable to deception. The inability of Medicare to adequately police medical/insurance fraud also makes her choice a genuine crap-shoot. The poor slobs who received conaminated injections from the compounding pharmacy that eventually went bankrupt are a perfect example of the dangers of poorly regulated private enterprise.
While my immune system is likely stronger than most others my age (WFPB), and being retired, I can largely avoid people during flu season, I still must occasionally interact with sales clerks & fellow shoppers. I thus welcome the additional immunity a flu shot may provide, since there are apparently so many 'Typhoid Marys' out there exercising their 'individual rights'!

Am I interpreting your words correctly when I assume you are calling me a Typhoid Mary because I don't get a flu shot? What a hoot you are, anyway.

I can't wait to see who ends up being the person who has chase me down and either dart gun me with my flu shot or hold me down while someone else gives me the shot. You know, in the re-education camp I'll be put in for not submitting to the government program for my health? They will probably also force feed me meat and cheese and withhold all potatoes.

[Mrs. Doodlepunk]

I am with "Gershon" on this one.

Me too.