Statins and muscle damage

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Statins and muscle damage

Postby FakeCanadian » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:01 pm

I think I recall f1jim posting about personal experience with muscle damage caused by statins, so I'm sort of directing this question to him, but anyone else with relevant experience, please do chime in.

I've read that a potential side effect of statins is rhabdomyolysis, or muscle damage. f1jim, if you have experience with this, would you mind sharing the signs and symptoms that told you statins were hurting you? Is there a blood test that can indicate rhabdomyolysis? Strength testing? Muscle mass loss? If pain, what sort of pain?

Sorry if I'm confusing your experience with another forum poster, but perhaps others have personal knowledge they could share.

thanks.
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Re: Statins and muscle damage

Postby patty » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:22 pm

Dr. Mc Dougall's Newsletter on Statins:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl ... atins.them

I too remember a post where Jim talked about muscle damage. I am sure he will respond. If not you can PM him.

See you well and healthy, patty
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Re: Statins and muscle damage

Postby wade4veg » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:13 pm

FakeCanadian wrote:I think I recall f1jim posting about personal experience with muscle damage caused by statins, so I'm sort of directing this question to him, but anyone else with relevant experience, please do chime in.

I've read that a potential side effect of statins is rhabdomyolysis, or muscle damage. f1jim, if you have experience with this, would you mind sharing the signs and symptoms that told you statins were hurting you? Is there a blood test that can indicate rhabdomyolysis? Strength testing? Muscle mass loss? If pain, what sort of pain?
.


Of course most people who take statins don't have a problem with muscle damage.
Are you actually experiencing a problem, or just worried that something "might" happen?
I wouldn't let fear of possible problems keep you from taking or continuing with a statin that might be beneficial.
If such a problem arises, one can always stop taking that statin. Very few people who stop have lasting effects.
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Re: Statins and muscle damage

Postby Melinda » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:17 pm

My sister recently told me she has been taking statins and had been having chronic problems with her shoulder, which the doctor said she injured from simply reaching behind her, which sounded unlikely to me.She stopped the statins several months ago and her shoulder is now recovering.
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Re: Statins and muscle damage

Postby FakeCanadian » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:36 pm

wade4veg wrote:Of course most people who take statins don't have a problem with muscle damage.
Are you actually experiencing a problem, or just worried that something "might" happen?
I wouldn't let fear of possible problems keep you from taking or continuing with a statin that might be beneficial.
If such a problem arises, one can always stop taking that statin. Very few people who stop have lasting effects.


Thanks wade4veg. Two things:

- My 'sense' is I have lost muscle mass and strength over the 3 years I've been on atorvastatin, particularly the past year. I know my 'sense' is highly subjective and, even if valid, could be attributable to many things, including I suppose simple aging. (I'm 58.)

- With TC and LDL consistently around 100 and 45 respectively, I wonder if there's any need for me to be on a statin. Am I running the risk, how ever small, of side effects pointlessly? Unfortunately I began taking statin about the same time I adopted Esselstyn's diet, so I don't know where my lipids would settle absent any statin. If they rose to over 150 and/or 80, I'd be happy to continue the statin, no problem. And based on what I've read is the average impact of my statin dose on TC and LDL, I believe my levels may well rise a bit above these benchmarks. (Note that I have known, multiple, severe coronary stenoses and so had a quadruple bypass Oct 2012.)

I'm taking only 10 mg atorvastatin, quite a small dose, which I presume makes the odds of side effects even smaller than average. I once proposed to my Doc that I go to 5 mg, given my lipid levels. He advised against that on the ground that I might lose the "other benefits" (besides cholesterol reduction) of the statin.

Perhaps I could better spend my time contemplating other potential hazards, like the mega-thrust 9+ earthquake predicted for the region where I live. :-D
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Re: Statins and muscle damage

Postby wade4veg » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:30 pm

FakeCanadian wrote:Thanks wade4veg. Two things:
- My 'sense' is I have lost muscle mass and strength over the 3 years I've been on atorvastatin, particularly the past year. I know my 'sense' is highly subjective and, even if valid, could be attributable to many things, including I suppose simple aging. (I'm 58.)


I'm 65 and have noticeable loss of muscle mass... and that was happening well before I began taking a statin. Depending on what one does to counteract it, is is quite noticeable.
Unsure what kind of exercise program you are on. You have to do a fair amount to just maintain mass over the next 10 years.
I notice it most in my upper body. I need to up my exercise in that area, to go along with all my cardio (cycling, hiking, jogging)

FakeCanadian wrote:- With TC and LDL consistently around 100 and 45 respectively, I wonder if there's any need for me to be on a statin. Am I running the risk, how ever small, of side effects pointlessly? Unfortunately I began taking statin about the same time I adopted Esselstyn's diet, so I don't know where my lipids would settle absent any statin. If they rose to over 150 and/or 80, I'd be happy to continue the statin, no problem. And based on what I've read is the average impact of my statin dose on TC and LDL, I believe my levels may well rise a bit above these benchmarks. (Note that I have known, multiple, severe coronary stenoses and so had a quadruple bypass Oct 2012.)

I'm taking only 10 mg atorvastatin, quite a small dose, which I presume makes the odds of side effects even smaller than average. I once proposed to my Doc that I go to 5 mg, given my lipid levels. He advised against that on the ground that I might lose the "other benefits" (besides cholesterol reduction) of the statin.


I'm on 40 mg atorvastatin and have only considered going down to 30 mg or 20 mg.....to see what would happen.
Only thinking of doing that because the atorvastatin has raised my fasting blood sugar from normal of about 86, to 99 on my last test.
Yes, they say it is a worthwhile trade off, but I'm uncomfortable with blood sugar above 90 over years and years.
Unsure if dropping down to 20 mg would bring me back to the low 90's at a minimum.
Last TC was 103, and LDL was only 35.
I am almost certain my TC would be under 150 on my current full McDougall diet. Even when I was eating about 15% fat, my TC was down at 160 and below, but not never under 150.
However I have only one dangerous narrowing in my mid LAD and have never had even a stent. I'm trying to see if I can halt any progression that would lead to a stent. So my trade off, should I lower my dose to 20 mg would be to get my blood sugar down, while keeping the TC well under 150 and LDL under 50 .

I understand your concern, but given your history, having multiple vessels involved, and given your low dose, I think I'd stick with your current 10 mg, unless something real shows up. I certainly wouldn't switch based only on your current fear of what might happen.
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Re: Statins and muscle damage

Postby PurplePotato » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:13 pm

Here are some of f1jim's thoughts on this from previous threads:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10820&p=86363#p86363
https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11821&p=97116#p97116
https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34191&p=346215#p346215
https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=40319&p=423143#p423143
https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36619&p=373983#p373983

Perhaps most relevant, from the last thread linked:

f1jim wrote:I had no muscle problems before the prescription for Simvastatin. I started having pain in the muscles above and below the knees on both legs. It got to where I had the pain constantly. I mentioned this to my doctor and he immediately took me off the Simvastatin. Since my total cholesterol was already around 108 I guess he felt safe in removing it. I convinced him to let me take a test after 3 months to see what my levels would be naturally. They came back at 121 and he never pressured me to take another till about a year later. Now at least once a year he tries to get me to try another and I have been adamant about leaving them off. I think if my cholesterol was much higher he would be more insistent.
The bad news is I still have problems with the muscles above my right knee. It seemed to clear up everywhere else but I have weakness and pain under the right circumstances. Those circumstances are a flight of stairs at the right angle and several gym machines that work the legs. It appears the damage is permanent and I am at the point where I wouldn't take the statins under most any circumstances again. It appears that the test used to verify muscle deterioration is not picking up the majority of damage the drugs are doing. I refer you to Dr. Gregers video on the subject:

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/statin-muscle-toxicity/

I urge anyone taking these drugs to watch the video and be aware of the possible consequences. After learning the real scope of the benefits of these drugs anyone following this way of eating would be wise to reassess their drug use.
f1jim
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Re: Statins and muscle damage

Postby wade4veg » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:16 am

PurplePotato wrote:Here are some of f1jim's thoughts on this from previous threads:

Perhaps most relevant, from the last thread linked:


On the other hand, unlike f1jim, FakeCanadian is not exeriencing any problems. Most patients do not.
Most of the subjects in Esselsstyn's studies were on statins during all their years being studied.
Dr. McDougall gives some at-risk patients statins. Statins have their use and it is not entirely in simply lowering TC and LDL.
FakeCanadian is not a patient in who statins are being used as "primary prevention". He has already had extensive disease and a multiple bypass operation.
He needs to weigh all the odds for individuals in a similar status.
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