Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby dailycarbs » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:35 pm

viv wrote:I have been most upset and angry over Cecil's death …



Me too.

Why Killing A Lion Is The Most Cowardly Thing You Can Do
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/why-kill ... ek58b9BKbY
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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby Skip » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:02 am

viv wrote:I have been most upset and angry over Cecil's death and I don't believe it's hypocritical at all. Many humans are still in the swamps and I believe that Cecil's death will open the door to increased awareness of the suffering of all animals.

The dentist who killed Cecil is nowhere to be found, well at least he knows to stay hidden - he's a marked man.

Viv


It's not hypocritical to be upset about an animal being killed. It's hypocritical to eat animals for food and then get upset when an animal that you don't eat get's killed......isn't it?
"The fundamental principle of ethics is reverence for life" Albert Schweitzer
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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby dailycarbs » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:07 am

I know people who are "hypocrites" according to this definition. I also know people who think this is no big deal. For them, it's just one lion and we should all "get over it and leave the poor man alone to get on with his life." We all enter the stream at different points and the "hypocrites" are further along in my book. Maybe we can work with that in mind instead of being outraged at their hypocrisy.
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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby odyssey » Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:23 am

When I saw Jimmy Kimmel getting choked up over this sad story, I thought, "True carnivores don't cry like that over the death of an animal, do they?"
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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby CarrotTopsRGreen » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:39 am

I believe a large part of the outrage is that this lion, who was living in a protected place, was deliberately lured out of the sanctuary to his death. Then he was shot with an arrow and suffered for 40 hours while he was hunted down and ultimately put out of his terrible misery. I have never been a hunter and could never kill an animal unless it was threatening me or another person. However, I do see a huge difference between the unnecessary killing of a lion simply for the joy of killing something, and someone killing a deer where they would eat the meat and use the hide etc. Paying more than $50,000 to do this also adds a particularly odious element to this sordid story. Sport hunting is not new, of course. In our own nation's history, the buffalo were killed nearly to extinction and the carcasses were left to rot on the ground. Theodore Roosevelt was presented with a bear cub in a cage to kill. He declined, and the teddy bear toy was created as a result of the widely-reported story.
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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby viv » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:08 am

CarrotTopsRGreen wrote:I believe a large part of the outrage is that this lion, who was living in a protected place, was deliberately lured out of the sanctuary to his death. Then he was shot with an arrow and suffered for 40 hours while he was hunted down and ultimately put out of his terrible misery. I have never been a hunter and could never kill an animal unless it was threatening me or another person. However, I do see a huge difference between the unnecessary killing of a lion simply for the joy of killing something, and someone killing a deer where they would eat the meat and use the hide etc. Paying more than $50,000 to do this also adds a particularly odious element to this sordid story. Sport hunting is not new, of course. In our own nation's history, the buffalo were killed nearly to extinction and the carcasses were left to rot on the ground. Theodore Roosevelt was presented with a bear cub in a cage to kill. He declined, and the teddy bear toy was created as a result of the widely-reported story.


Well said! Not only is their outrage at the killing of this beautiful rare lion with a black mane, part of an Oxford University study, wearing a GPS collar, and a tourist attraction in Zimbabwe, but the guile, manipulation, cunning and cruel way he was killed by a rich American who payed $50,000 for the privilege. It is just wrong on every level.

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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby C.R.MacDonald » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:14 am

I understand both point of views on the subject. However, I personally conclude it to be hypocritical, also.

Because the subject makes them uncomfortable, people who consume animal products try to differentiate their own behaviour by any means. They've changed the narrative from "the killing" being a tragedy, to "the rarity of the animal" was the tragedy. Or, the "luring of the animal" was the tragedy. Or, the fact that they "did it for sport" and didn't eat it, was the tragedy. If the killer murdered a common breed of dog, or waited for the lion to naturally walk out of the perimeter on its own before killing it, or if the killer just simply ate the lion... would it ultimately alleviate their outrage? What if the killer did it for free? Would eliminating the financial aspect of it make it better?

It ultimately should be about one, singular thing: an innocent animal was shot and killed. Period. It shouldn't really matter about the intent behind the death. It was killed. It's life is over by unnatural means.

But, that's cognitive dissonance and public perception for you.

As it's said (and I personally believe), the only thing an animal should be shot with is a camera.
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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby BlueHeron » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:58 am

This article is a more mainstream piece connecting the outrage over Cecil to eating meat.

http://jezebel.com/meditations-on-the-d ... 1720844928

I like the honesty of this piece. Here is a quotation to give you a sense of it:

"I have been searching for any reason to continue to eat meat, because I greatly enjoy it. I’ve polled my friends and their answers for why animals should continue to be murdered for their meat are, frankly—and, like any I can think of—absurd."

Vegan Sidekick has several comics about it:
https://www.facebook.com/vegansidekick
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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby dynodan62 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:13 am

While I certainly agree trophy hunting is an archaic concept, and going after a large, vicious predator with bow & arrow is just plain silly to boot, I have to laugh whenever the media whores refer to 'Cecil' as "beloved". No one who was ever attacked by a wild animal would likely feel that way. I think the native Africans who are involved with wildlife conservation probably are more apt to have an economic agenda, primarily.
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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby CarrotTopsRGreen » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:26 am

Frankly, I personally cannot grasp the concept of killing something so beautiful and feeling good about it - no, good is not the word. Jubilant to the point of having one's photo taken with the corpse of the animal whose life you have ended and publishing that photo on the internet is something so foreign to my understanding that it shocks me. If I had to kill a rattlesnake to keep it from biting someone, or a bobcat to keep it from attacking, I still would not feel good about ending its life. It's just not something I could be happy about. I guess most people would find that strange.
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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby patty » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:39 am



Great link... Mahalo patty

I should add hopefully we are awakening from the hypnotic dream of individuality. Rip Cecil.

Aloha, patty
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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby MarionP » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:23 am

BlueHeron wrote:People could argue that the lion's corpse was just left to rot, so this killing was purely for the "fun" of it. This would make it different even from deer hunting, since hunters eat deer. And, frankly, I'm glad that attention has been brought to trophy hunting and that people are getting to the point where that seems appalling. I'll call that progress. The people of my state (Michigan) have just voted against the trophy hunting of wolves, but the legislature is saying it's OK, so there's a court case going on, and I don't know if the trophy hunt is going to be allowed or not.

But the upshot is that, for most people, killing an animal for pleasure is OK if the pleasure is taste.


But people don't actually think that killing animals is OK. They would not be as outraged at a picture of a slaughterhouse worker proudly posing trophy-hunter style next to the carcass of the cow they just killed, but they would be just as uncomfortable.

I've told a few people in the past that the only reason for them to pay others to exploit and kill animals is to please their palate and they don't like it on bit. They surround themselves in a bubble of cognitive dissonance because reality is just too hard to bear.

Animal consumption is a collective trauma.
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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby f1jim » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:50 am

Its all about pleasing a sense. In the case of killing the lion, feeling a sense of "the great white hunter" marching into danger and dispatching the source of danger is appealing to ones senses at a certain level.
Dispatching an animal because the taste of bacon is especially yummy appeals to another set of senses.
Which is more correct? Which is more politically correct? Does either make any sense given the world we live in today?
It seems one cannot in good conscience place the killing of the lion as more of an affront to nature than killing a pig for bacon. Given the same circumstances the pig could develop a bond with humans and be just as revered as the lion was. Was the lion, being the top of the food chain to be cherished more than the lowly pig? Thousands of pigs have become cherished family pets over the decades. Is the pigs innate worth less than the lions?
I think the killing of any animal for other than self protection is a waste. So is the killing of an animal for food. I have trouble seeing any significant differences except for the value as a headline.
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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby MarionP » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:12 pm

f1jim wrote:Its all about pleasing a sense. In the case of killing the lion, feeling a sense of "the great white hunter" marching into danger and dispatching the source of danger is appealing to ones senses at a certain level.
Dispatching an animal because the taste of bacon is especially yummy appeals to another set of senses.
Which is more correct? Which is more politically correct? Does either make any sense given the world we live in today?
It seems one cannot in good conscience place the killing of the lion as more of an affront to nature than killing a pig for bacon. Given the same circumstances the pig could develop a bond with humans and be just as revered as the lion was. Was the lion, being the top of the food chain to be cherished more than the lowly pig? Thousands of pigs have become cherished family pets over the decades. Is the pigs innate worth less than the lions?
I think the killing of any animal for other than self protection is a waste. So is the killing of an animal for food. I have trouble seeing any significant differences except for the value as a headline.
f1jim


Amen.
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Re: Lion is shot --- hypocrisy of it

Postby Jack Monzon » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:13 pm

This man sickens me. I hope his career is in ruins.
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