Feast Days

[Tatterhood]

I'm wondering how people feel about feast/cheat days or even for just one meal. I've been really true to the letter all summer, for about 6 weeks, and have lost 10 out of the 20 pounds I wish to lose. My husband and I have also been whole foods, plant-based vegans for the last three or so years. Before this summer, I used more added oil, avocados, nuts, and processed foods like pasta and breads than I should have, which is why I needed to make the switch to lose weight. I had simply gotten too heavy. Too many added fats and calories. Not enough exercise.

So, back to my question: Occasionally, my husband still thinks I should "treat" myself to a cheat meal. He thinks I'm letting my perfectionism take hold of me. And while I can somewhat see his point, I don't see, or want to see food as a treat. In fact, it's that kind of thinking that I feel is detrimental to long-term health. I'm in a phase of retraining my tastes to enjoy less bang. The longer I go without occasional restaurant food, or even foods with added oils like stir-fries or guacamole, the less I want them. If I'm going to treat myself with anything, I think it should be something like a new, pretty ceramic bowl for my steamed veggies. Or new workout shorts. Something that's less ephemeral and more in line with my goals or that will enhance my gustatory experiences.

And, honestly, I think it takes a while to break bad habits. If I go back to those things too soon, I might think...oh well, that one little bit of ______ didn't hurt me, maybe I can just have it again.... I know how quickly I can be led down the garden path.

In fact, I hate to break it to him, but even after I do lose the next 10 pounds, I think I might never go back to the other WOE. Maybe an occasional meal out, but I'm not going to return to the stir-fries or pasta sauce with olive oil, all of which got me into this mess to begin with. This is not a diet in the traditional sense. It's another layer to WFPB eating. It's removing the fats and paying attention to amounts of food one consumes in a day.

Does this sound like perfectionism? Mindfulness? Unrealistic?

Thoughts?

[dailycarbs]

You're 100% correct. Don't budge. You'd be playing with fire.

[BlueHeron]

I would ask how you feel about feast days, and from what you write, it seems like you feel like they're a bad idea, but that your husband thinks you should have them. So you'd be doing it because he thinks you should. In that case, I'd say go with your gut and avoid them.

The program allows feast days, and they work for some people. Having an occasional feast day helps some people to stick with the plan the rest of the time (feast being a few times a year - not a few times a week). For other people, a feast day would be a slippery slope back to eating poorly most if not all of the time. These people are better off if they just swear off the problematic foods altogether.

So this really is a case of doing what's best for you. But I don't think you should make your decisions based on what your husband thinks you should do. Sometimes compromise is necessary in a marriage, but this seems to be only about what you put in your body - and that's your decision.

[Katydid]

I've never been the kind of person to get to worked up about feast foods one way or the other. Last week when I was on vacation I went into to a local restaurant near where I was "lighthousing" and ordered a salad. Only thing on the menu that didn't contain fish or seafood. Then I spotted sweet potato fries on the menu. I ordered a side of fries with my salad and ended up eating two fries. The oil just made them taste nasty to me. Basically a waste of $2. Eventually, the memory of the taste of a food no longer fits into your current cleaned-up palate. If you don't want to feast - don't. If you do, be prepared to be disappointed.

Kate

[vgpedlr]

It sounds like you don't want to feast. So don't. Perhaps you can explain it as waiting a bit longer, like when you finally reach goal weight. Say you can revisit the idea then. The last 10 lbs can take a while anyway. Esselstyn says that it takes about 3 mos. to reprogram tastes, so it makes sense to stay the course. There is a difference between being disciplined and being a perfectionist. And I think you are absolutely on the right track regarding treats. My mom says the same thing, that it's OK to treat yourself. My answer (in my head) is that we treat ourselves with food way too much. Why always food? Can't we treat ourselves with something else?

I say stick to your guns and keep up the momentum you've built. Revisit the idea of feast days later.

[MINNIE]

Trust your judgement -it's your body.

I have been doing this for 2.5 years without even wanting have a "cheat" or "feast" day. It feels good to eat this way, and tastes good too.

It ain't broke, so why try to fix it:)??

[Dougalling]

Every day, every meal is a treat. The old stuff I used to eat just doesn't appeal to me anymore. When I crave something from the past, I really give it some thought, and I end up knowing that the flavour and/or texture is just not appealing anymore. My tastes have changed.
If I want something decadent, I find a WFPB recipe. There's a WFPB recipe for any craving. I'm not missing out on anything.

Oh, sorry, I am missing out on one thing. Convenience. I can't just run to the grocers or fast food joint and pick up most meals ready-made for me. That's why I have a freezer.

[Tatterhood]

Thanks, everyone. Makes a lot of sense. I kind of feel like I'm not quite at that place of being completely steady on my feet. Six weeks is good, but I'm not yet over the hump. I'm really half-way. Three months makes more sense to me in terms of being ready to say that I'm no longer tempted. And I also know that this last 10 pounds is likely to be a slower drop than the first 10 was. I am completely sold on the WOE. Nothing else has worked.

Thanks for the support. I also like the word discipline as opposed to perfectionism. I'm simply focused and wanting to improve where I'm at. Honestly, my BMI was just into the "overweight" category. Not a good place to be at the age of 50.

I find it so peculiar the way those nearest and dearest who wish to support you, and who are doing their best to do so, are often the same ones who will try to undermine you, or want you to change back to your former self sometimes. It's as if my new WOE, and this happened when I became a vegan three years ago before he did, is okay as long as it doesn't inconvenience him. He's also said that perhaps I should only attempt to lose just 5 more pounds as opposed to 10. But 10 is really a better weight. It's not too extreme for my height or BMI. It's right in the wheel house, so to speak.

Anyway, I'm sticking with it. It's my plan, and really, even if we go out, or eat in or whatever we do, I've been managing to make it work, and will continue to do so.

[jeff_t]

I occasionally deviate from the plan, but I don't plan it. I don't set some date out in the future and tell myself that I can have anything I want that day. I don't deviate at home, which is where I prepare 90% of my meals. But I do eat out sometimes. When I eat out, I look for things that are as close to compliant as possible, but I don't ask them to do anything special for me. So I may eat at an Indian restaurant or a Thai restaurant that cooks with a fair amount of oil. I get over it. I eat it and enjoy it. For me, these aren't slippery slope situations. Something tells me that even in Okinawa they have a little oil once in awhile. I'm active enough that I can tolerate it.

Now I DO have some slippery slope foods and situations, which I never allow myself because I get derailed and can't seem to get back on track very well. I can't eat at buffets. I can't eat cookies, cakes, etc. I could probably lose 5-10 more lbs, but I'm content with where I'm at right now.

Sometimes I think we're a little too zealous here. There are no studies saying that if you eliminate oil completely that you'll live longer or better than if you have 1-2 tbsp of oil a week. I'd rather eat what the natives eat, provided my ethics are not violated, than ask them to make something special (and potentially flavorless) for me.

[vgpedlr]

I find it so peculiar the way those nearest and dearest who wish to support you, and who are doing their best to do so, are often the same ones who will try to undermine you, or want you to change back to your former self sometimes. It's as if my new WOE, and this happened when I became a vegan three years ago before he did, is okay as long as it doesn't inconvenience him. He's also said that perhaps I should only attempt to lose just 5 more pounds as opposed to 10. But 10 is really a better weight. It's not too extreme for my height or BMI. It's right in the wheel house, so to speak.

If you haven't already, check out Doug Lisle's talks. He explains this very well. If you have, maybe it's time for a review. I watch them periodically as a refresher.

[colonyofcells]

I believe feast days like holidays are allowed in the Starch Solution based on videos altho I don't remember reading about them in the book Starch Solution. My guess is lots of weight gain comes from too much feasting during Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year. The videos seem to allow small amounts of off plan foods during the major holidays.

[dteresa]

Every now and then I have a "feast" day but it is always something like pigging out on whole wheat pasta with trader joe's fat free pasta sauce. I know I will have more than one feast day soon because tomorrow I am going to trader joe's and buying, among other things, their Italian whole wheat pane. Best bread in the world. So lots of tomato, lettuce, onion and cucumber sandwiches in my future. If I do pig out, I will eat the pasta and bread in place of the potatoes and rice and try to control myself. Fortunately bread spoils and my freezer is too small to hold more than a couple of loaves and I only get to that market a few times per year.

I am not tempted to cheat on off plan food because I will never forget waking up naked and covered by a sheet in the ER after coding during a heart attack. Also have t2 diabetes. So I guess I do not even question this woe. Also do not want to gain back the 150 pounds I lost over the last 25 years. It creeps up on you a pound or two at a time and I do not want that to happen again.

I know it takes a while to get used to eating this way and is very inconvenient in many social situations. I always urge people to be compliant, not because I think to do otherwise is somehow a failure, but because although I was partially compliant, I experienced the worst that can happen if you eat those "feast foods" once too often and would not wish it on anyone. But that was my experience and maybe others will not suffer at all from those cumulative feast days.

didi

[f1jim]

I also have "feast days" that consist of higher fat on plan foods. I have lost the desire to eat off plan foods. The on plan foods have worked a small miracle in my life and moving away from them seems like a cutting my own throat after the healing they have brought me. I had serious heart disease and strong angina at rest so eating this way has removed all angina and it remains a powerful memory of what eating crap food does to me. If I hadn't had the heart disease I, no doubt, would not take it so seriously. I see myself as this walking, talking, living experiment in what an atrocious diet can do to the human body. I also see myself as a walking, talking, living experiment into the healing one can experience despite 51 years of body abuse.
So a few high fat on plan brownies or oatmeal cookies makes me feel sinful while knowing I am not endangering myself. That's a real feast day. When you enjoy the food, yet know you have done no damage.
Again, I might not be so strict if i didn't have a life threatening issue I was aware off. My thoughts are with those that don't have any clue how close to a serious medical event they are. Daily the news is filled with stories of those that keel over with a fatal heart attack or stroke, unaware they were in mortal danger. I was blessed to get the angina that delivered that message. Feast days now take on a whole different meaning to me.
For those unsure of your state of health please err on the side of caution. There will be millions of people that will pass on this year that won't get the chance to tighten up their diet.
f1jim

[dailycarbs]

My answer was brief:

You're 100% correct. Don't budge. You'd be playing with fire.

Let me elaborate. I see three red flags in your post.

1. You have misgivings and are encouraged to go off plan by your husband. The implication is that there is something wrong with you for doing this one hundred percent. There isn't! Social pressure 101.

2. You have not been at this woe very long. The learning curve is steep. I've been at it almost 5 years and still learning. Many others here have been at it longer. Take their advice seriously because they've been through these situations many times and have the battle scars.

3. You're not at your desired weight. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks of your weight. 5 lbs, 10 lbs to lose, it's your body. You know what you want out of this. You're putting in the effort. It's not for anyone else to tell you what your ideal weight is.

Had you reached your maintenance weight, stayed there for a long time (at least many months and preferably years), and there was no outside pressure, my answer may have been a bit different. The point is, you can't go wrong sticking with the plan and you can go all kinds of wrong trying to play around with cheat days. Your instincts are good. Stick to your guns.

[Tiger]

So much good advice and experience in this thread! You're doing great, Tatterhood.

I have a husband who encourages slips, I guess he thinks I'm being deprived of happiness or something. Chef AJ has a recent teleclass interview with Doug Lisle who addresses how our self-esteem is damaged by going off-plan (and other things).

After being quite strict and losing all the weight I desired, I treated myself to avocado. So rich and delicious, a true feast! But as I continued to eat avocados, they lost that special taste, so the whole idea of a feast food was spoiled. As vgpdlr questioned, why do we have to treat ourselves with food? When you think of feasts in movies, it's always a celebration with other people around, a social occasion.