Is the holistic movement under attack?

[CarrotTopsRGreen]

As for vaccines saving lives from polio, etc, can't be denied. However, back in the 60's you got maybe 2 or 3 vaccines, polio, measles. Today it's far more, with questionable added substances, that FOR SURE haven't been studied properly.

[AnnGriff]

As for vaccines saving lives from polio, etc, can't be denied. However, back in the 60's you got maybe 2 or 3 vaccines, polio, measles. Today it's far more, with questionable added substances, that FOR SURE haven't been studied properly.

Where do you get the information that the added substances in vaccinations haven't been studied properly?

[CarrotTopsRGreen]

As for vaccines saving lives from polio, etc, can't be denied. However, back in the 60's you got maybe 2 or 3 vaccines, polio, measles. Today it's far more, with questionable added substances, that FOR SURE haven't been studied properly.

Where do you get the information that the added substances in vaccinations haven't been studied properly?

Ann Griff, this is not my quote - I was quoting a previous poster.

[AnnGriff]

Sorry about that, I guess I should have quoted MikeinFL.

[MikeInFL]

As for vaccines saving lives from polio, etc, can't be denied. However, back in the 60's you got maybe 2 or 3 vaccines, polio, measles. Today it's far more, with questionable added substances, that FOR SURE haven't been studied properly.

Where do you get the information that the added substances in vaccinations haven't been studied properly?

Actually thimersol does have dozens of studies, but the bad news is they find significant adverse effects:

http://preventdisease.com/news/pdf/Thim ... lities.pdf

According to the EPA, the average child can tolerate 0.3 micrograms of mercury. How they come up with that I don't know and I don't believe it for a second. Plus each child tolerates mercury differently- some better than others. If 0.3 is the 'tolerate' (not safe?) level then how much mercury does a 2 month old infant receives after all 4 scheduled vaccinations (DtaP, Polio, Hib, Hepatitus B)? Answer: a mercury level of 62.5 micrograms, 125 times higher than the EPA ’safe’ level!

I have searched for years for a study that finds a safe level of mercury and except for the FDA and EPA claiming there is such a thing, I can find no study proving any safe level of mercury. Just the opposite- studies on mercury find no safe level at the molecular level. What that means is that not even ONE atom of mercury is safe! Do not touch mercury, it absorbs right into the skin. Certainly don't ingest it, or have it injected. The reason drug companies use mercury as a preservative is it's flawless ability to KILL anything alive (bacteria) that prevents unwanted bacterial contamination with multiple needle sticks into a single vial, when using multi-dose vials.

And that's just mercury. There are plenty of other nasties in vaccines. They certainly need to study this more.

[BlueHeron]

That would be a problem if there were mercury in vaccines, but mercury has not been used in vaccines since 2001. Thimerosal, which contains trace amounts of mercury, is used in some flu vaccines, but not in the recommended childhood vaccines. It has been used since the 1930s, so I don't see how it can be responsible for the recent increase in autism. No one is talking about requiring flu vaccines.

Since you seem to be exclusively citing anti-vaccine sites, you probably don't believe the CDC, but for people interested in what scientists have to say, here is some information with links to peer-reviewed studies: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/thimerosal/

[f1jim]

Back to the original intent of the thread......
I see no giant conspiracy at work, only the usual pressure on ideas not embraced by the mainstream. There will always be more voices, more media, more pressure on those that have sidestepped the mainstream.
Is the holistic movement under attack? No more than any other non-mainstream ideology. Our goal should be to become mainstream.
f1jim

[StarchHEFP]

Back to the original intent of the thread......
I see no giant conspiracy at work, only the usual pressure on ideas not embraced by the mainstream. There will always be more voices, more media, more pressure on those that have sidestepped the mainstream.
Is the holistic movement under attack? No more than any other non-mainstream ideology. Our goal should be to become mainstream.
f1jim

I get asked all the time, "are you a holistic doctor?" I tell them that I am a regular doctor who focuses efforts to help patients improve their lifestyles, or "lifestyle medicine" - lifestyle medicine should be, and is, mainstream. Lifestyle medicine does focus on wholism in that it looks at lifestyles and health as a function not just of medical treatment. In med school, we were taught to focus on the "biopsychosocial" approach to disease and wellness, in that health is a function of our bodies (bio), our minds (psyche) and our social environment. However, holistic medicine is so variable and occupied by so many charlatans and snake oil salesmen that the word has negative connotations, even though it's such a noble idea.

Lifestyle medicine is So mainstream that American College of Preventive Medicine has a section of lifestyle medicine - one day perhaps there will be a certification exam in lifestyle medicine through this board. In the meantime, see this webpage for the webinars of lifestyle medicine (1st one by Dr. Greger): http://www.acpm.org/?LMCurriculumArchived

Also check out http://www.acpm.org/?LMCurriculumOutline for a description of the proposed curriculum for Lifestyle Medicine. As you can see, the WFPB doctors names and Jeff Novick RD are all over the nutrition curriculum.

It's already "mainstream" but most doctors have not yet seen the light and picked this up! This is not alternative medicine, but real, Hippocratic medicine! Let medicine be thy food and walking is man's best medicine.

[bbq]

Yet another study of widely touted cancer “cure” retracted
http://retractionwatch.com/2014/10/10/yet-another-study-of-widely-touted-cancer-cure-retracted/

http://www.saisei-mirai.or.jp/gan/index_eng.html

https://gcmaf.se/gcmaf-science/second-generation-gcmaf/

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/dr-success-using-higher-doses-of-gcmaf.16057/page-8

http://www.naturalnews.com/050553_Dr_Bradstreet_GcMAF_cancer_therapy.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/050972_GcMAF_cancer_cells_Bradstreet.html

Pretty funny stuff, not bad for a good laugh.

[dteresa]

In our state, I believe it is the law that all school age children have to be vaccinated regardless of whether or not they are in public school, including if they are home schooled.

Re: do you think the AMA sends out teams of hit men? Sure I do. Modern hit men. Called publicists and writers and lobbyists. So do other organizations. Read dr. Campbell's book, Whole.

didi

[BlueHeron]

There is, quite obviously, a huge difference between figurative hit men and the literal hit men implied by the OP. Hyperbole will only further marginalize the elements of the holistic movement that deserve to be taken seriously. False accusations of conspiracy will only make it easier to dismiss the real issues cited by Dr. Campbell et al. I do not wish to be lumped in with those who believe that childhood vaccines still contain mercury. I will get my information from the CDC, not some blogger.

[colonyofcells]

The advantages of vaccines probably outweigh the disadvantages of vaccines.

[dailycarbs]

The advantages of vaccines probably outweigh the disadvantages of vaccines.

The advantages of vaccines definitely outweigh the disadvantages of vaccines.

I'm really distressed that I may get lumped in with those who promote this woe while also promoting the anti-vaccine movement. This is a sure fire way to usher in a new era previously eradicated, crippling diseases. On the one hand they use science to bolster one side, on the other they use science denial to bolster the other. Can't have it both ways.

[colonyofcells]

Science denial is definitely in america as seen in the denial of global warming, denial of evolution, flat earthers, believers in the earth as the center of the universe, etc.

[BlueHeron]

I don't know if there is more science denial to begin with or whether the internet has just given science deniers a platform and access to lots of people who don't really have the critical thinking skills to analyze what they're being told.

It can be a really great thing that voices in opposition to the mainstream can get the word out more easily - Dr. McDougall, Dr. Campbell, etc. I don't know how successful Forks Over Knives would have been in reaching people in the pre-internet days. On the other hand, there seems to be an awful lot more crap to slog through. When I was teaching college composition, I used to tell my students that everyone having a right to an opinion doesn't mean all opinions are equally valid. And it doesn't mean you have a right to your own facts.

Vaccines save lives. Only the flu vaccine contains mercury. No one is suggesting requiring the flu vaccine. The single paper connecting vaccines to autism has been retracted.

And the anti-vaccine movement has already killed at least one person and has the potential to kill thousands more.