Is the holistic movement under attack?

[MikeInFL]

Is the WFPB woe considered a holistic movement? Are the WFPB dr's we admire considered "holistic" Dr's? I ask because is the AMA upping it's campaign against the alternative movement? What about these unusual recent deaths of alternative Dr's in a short period of time? I find this all disturbing:

"AMA Prepares Gag Order for Medical Dissenters"
http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/ama-prepares-gag-order-for-medical-dissenters/

"AMA Announces New Mandatory Vaccine Policy"
AMA..went on record urging state legislators to do away with the ability of parents to choose whether or not to vaccinate their children."
https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/ama-announces-new-mandatory-vaccine-policy

"Colorado House to Pass Forced Vaccination Bill: One of 18 States Pushing Corporate Drugs"
http://naturalsociety.com/colorado-house-passes-forced-vaccination-bill-one-18-states-pushing-corporate-drugs/

"Merck Created Hit List to "Destroy," "Neutralize" or "Discredit" Dissenting Doctors"
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/merck-creat ... g-doctors/

ON MAY 1, 2015:

"A bill was filed in FL previously, as well as in Congress on May 1, 2015 “The Vaccinate Child Act Of 2015” by FL (D) Representative Frederica Wilson and a press release issued that same day. The bill in Congress defines federal mandatory vaccination statewide. She is called into question with having direct ties to the pharmaceutical company Glaxosmithkline via a staff member, her Senior Advisor..."
http://thefifthcolumnnews.com/2015/05/floridas-mandatory-vaccine-bill-filed-by-representative-exposed-as-a-pharmaceutical-front/

THEN THIS ALL STARTED ON JUNE 19:

"3 Florida holistic anti-vaccine doctors dead (1 confirmed murdered, 1 shot in chest) in 2 week period":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2dDU3WPZ_Q

Dr Jeff Bradstreet MD, controversial anti-vaccine Autism researcher:
-contributed heavily to the body of peer reviewed science implicating the vaccine schedule in autism’s etiology
-apparent “self inflicted gunshot wound to the chest“. June 19th, 2015

Dr. Bruce Hedendal, DC PhD Nutrition, Boco Raton
chiropractic and functional medicine
cause of death unknown, June 21st, 2015

Teresa Ann Sievers MD, 46, (Naples, FL):
-holistic alternative (nutrition, hormone therapy)
-murdered in her home June 29th, 2015

[BlueHeron]

Short answer: no.

I haven't figured out how to do links on my phone yet, but check out Snopes.com regarding deaths of these doctors. This is bunk.

[openmind]

Is the WFPB woe considered a holistic movement? Are the WFPB dr's we admire considered "holistic" Dr's? I ask because is the AMA upping it's campaign against the alternative movement? What about these unusual recent deaths of alternative Dr's in a short period of time? I find this all disturbing:

"AMA Prepares Gag Order for Medical Dissenters"
http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/ama-prepares-gag-order-for-medical-dissenters/

"AMA Announces New Mandatory Vaccine Policy"
AMA..went on record urging state legislators to do away with the ability of parents to choose whether or not to vaccinate their children."
https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/ama-announces-new-mandatory-vaccine-policy

"Colorado House to Pass Forced Vaccination Bill: One of 18 States Pushing Corporate Drugs"
http://naturalsociety.com/colorado-house-passes-forced-vaccination-bill-one-18-states-pushing-corporate-drugs/

"Merck Created Hit List to "Destroy," "Neutralize" or "Discredit" Dissenting Doctors"
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/merck-creat ... g-doctors/

ON MAY 1, 2015:

"A bill was filed in FL previously, as well as in Congress on May 1, 2015 “The Vaccinate Child Act Of 2015” by FL (D) Representative Frederica Wilson and a press release issued that same day. The bill in Congress defines federal mandatory vaccination statewide. She is called into question with having direct ties to the pharmaceutical company Glaxosmithkline via a staff member, her Senior Advisor..."
http://thefifthcolumnnews.com/2015/05/floridas-mandatory-vaccine-bill-filed-by-representative-exposed-as-a-pharmaceutical-front/

THEN THIS ALL STARTED ON JUNE 19:

"3 Florida holistic anti-vaccine doctors dead (1 confirmed murdered, 1 shot in chest) in 2 week period":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2dDU3WPZ_Q

Dr Jeff Bradstreet MD, controversial anti-vaccine Autism researcher:
-contributed heavily to the body of peer reviewed science implicating the vaccine schedule in autism’s etiology
-apparent “self inflicted gunshot wound to the chest“. June 19th, 2015

Dr. Bruce Hedendal, DC PhD Nutrition, Boco Raton
chiropractic and functional medicine
cause of death unknown, June 21st, 2015

Teresa Ann Sievers MD, 46, (Naples, FL):
-holistic alternative (nutrition, hormone therapy)
-murdered in her home June 29th, 2015

Isn't most of the holistic movement now pushing Paleo and Wheat Belly? That's my impression.

I consider WFPB distinctly apart from so-called 'holistic healing'. As Dr. McDougall says, 'It's the Food'.

[MikeInFL]

Short answer: no.

I haven't figured out how to do links on my phone yet, but check out Snopes.com regarding deaths of these doctors. This is bunk.

I found the snopes.com article and it doesn't debunk anything. Snopes does make a reasonable argument against any conspiracy about these Dr's, but certainly no proof. Debunking requires proof. The family of Dr Bradstreet is determined to find the truth. He was a brilliant speaker, highly educated, adamant against vaccines. If he had appeared on Dr Oz, he would have become nationally well known.

[vgpedlr]

The AMA et al cracking down on doctors opposed to vaccination only applies those doctors. Doctors, like McDougall, who promote lifestyle medicine should not, and do not seem to be, included. The AMA does have a long history of virulent opposition to those who disagree with them. And "holistic" can mean a great many things, from truly beneficial, to outright quackery.

[BlueHeron]

If you look at news sources that don't have an ax to grind, it's pretty clear that Bradstreet probably committed suicide. I don't blame his family for not wanting to believe that. I do blame people who try to create a conspiracy out of this tragedy to further their own ends - as if the AMA hires hit men.

I assume you will continue to believe as you do without the "proof" you require of me. That is the nature of conspiracy theorists. By the way, it is impossible to prove a negative, that is, you cannot prove something - God or a conspiracy - does NOT exist. That is the nature of logic.

[f1jim]

Conspiracies are interesting concepts. I always have resisted most of them as i find it impossible to believe so many people can keep a secret. I have friends that embrace whatever conspiracy is all the rage at the moment and I pose several questions to them and they don't let such things bother them.
An example is the contrails in the sky they insist are poisoning us with mind control drugs. I ask how it is this quantity of drugs can be manufactured, loaded on planes, tested for function, released into the atmosphere, all without anyone speaking out.
Rather implausible to me.
I do believe money and resources influence everything, as it always has. I just can't make the jump others can.
f1jim

[CarrotTopsRGreen]

I am against mandated vaccines for personal reasons. My husband works for a hospital and in order to keep his job, had to take a mandatory flu vaccine. Right after receiving the vaccine, he broke out in a rash all over his body. He had never had any rash like this before, and in fact had rarely been sick in any way in all of the years I had known him. It will be a year in November, and he is still breaking out. It's a nasty, oozy rash and at one point became infected and he had to go on antibiotics. The dermatologist says he cannot say definitively whether the vaccine caused the rash. If he does not get a vaccine again this year, he will lose his job. The hospital is already sending out their pro-flu vaccine propaganda to all employees. On closer examination, the hospital's Medicare reimbursements are directly tied to the percentage of employees who receive the vaccine, so it would seem to be their motivation for requiring the vaccines. It is nearly impossible to receive an exemption, even for religious reasons. My husband is not a religious man anyway. When he expressed his opinion of the flu vaccine to the employee health nurse, she turned him in to HR, saying he made her "uncomfortable." It's all about politics and money.

I've read so much recently in the popular press about how dairy is not all it's been cracked up to be, so I fully expect the dairy industry to go on the attack if they have already not done so. And we know what happened to Oprah when she reported on the beef industry on her television show.

[bbq]

all without anyone speaking out.

Maybe it depends on the costs of speaking out?

For instance, Blair Hamrick lost his job and then went through an 11-year ordeal because he's got the balls to be a whistleblower:

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/07/03/cbs-3-exclusive-whistleblower-speaks-out/
http://youtu.be/ii2ggQZc7a0

Many decades ago, DDT Is Good For Me-e-e! and more doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette:

http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/outrageous-vintage-cigarette-ads/

Was it some kinda conspiracy to question the safety of DDT? That could be the case if Rachel Carson weren't speaking out. And then try to challenge those doctors about Camels and see how it goes.

Heck, we could even find Dr. McDougall's name of this page and then there's also conspiracy:

http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/10/08/dairy-food-causes-all-disease/

[baardmk]

hmm, what to say? I'm not a fan of the many alternative theories and holistic therapies, but, I don't know. Superstition isn't necessarily an all-bad endowment of human nature and if only "rational people" could rule the day, things wouldn't be better, is my guess.

I find the vaccine debate very complex, as it touches on many practices and many fields.

Conspiracy theories offer a convenient black/white narrative/lens making them quite ensnaring. Like evil Monsanto/GMO or similar, providing meaning to mundane purchases and a mission/purpose with a clear enemy.

I was interested in Michael Ruppert some while ago for his views on economy and from his credentials (http://collapsemovie.com/). I still believe he has many good points on sustainability and environment. He is deceased, also from suicide. It's not uncommon for conspiracy thinkers and fringe/radical thinkers to go down that path.
Here's a loving video from the first witness and a close friend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydNqFyvisCo , documented largely to prevent false rumours to develop, I guess.

[BlueHeron]

I'm not saying that there isn't debate about vaccines. But to frame it as "the holistic movement under attack" is inflammatory and seems to posit a widespread conspiracy against any medicine that can be considered alternative. Of course, doctors who believe vaccines save lives are very concerned about the backlash against them and are trying to take some sort of action before we have widespread deaths from preventable diseases.The success of vaccines is actually the cause of the problem. Americans today don't remember people dying of measles and whooping cough. Few remember the annual terror that polio used to be. So yes, there's a concerted effort to get people to vaccinate their children. I suppose I'd be OK with someone saying anti-vaxxer beliefs are under attack, to which I say, "Good."

But, as has already been pointed out, "holistic" is a wide category. I have heard Dr. McDougall state many times that he is not an "alternative" doctor, but some might include him under the term "holistic" because he advocates dietary solutions when possible. His beliefs are backed up by conventional science. He does not just say mammograms are useless - he shows that using published, peer-reviewed studies. Other doctors that would be considered holistic might be providing treatments that are useless or even harmful and are based on vague ideas rather than science.

But when you start suggesting that alternative medical practitioners are being murdered by the AMA or the government or whatever, that's when you lose me completely.

[katgirl55]

It is strange that it is only in Florida (that I have heard) when California just passed a bill on mandatory vaccines (SB 277). I would think it would be country-wide or at least happening in the states with vaccine bills in the works. I just think the whole story plays into the "Big Pharma" conspiracy drama that is popular right now (along with paleo and butter coffee).

[MikeInFL]

I'm not saying that there isn't debate about vaccines. But to frame it as "the holistic movement under attack" is inflammatory and seems to posit a widespread conspiracy against any medicine that can be considered alternative. Of course, doctors who believe vaccines save lives are very concerned about the backlash against them and are trying to take some sort of action before we have widespread deaths from preventable diseases.The success of vaccines is actually the cause of the problem. Americans today don't remember people dying of measles and whooping cough. Few remember the annual terror that polio used to be. So yes, there's a concerted effort to get people to vaccinate their children. I suppose I'd be OK with someone saying anti-vaxxer beliefs are under attack, to which I say, "Good."

But, as has already been pointed out, "holistic" is a wide category. I have heard Dr. McDougall state many times that he is not an "alternative" doctor, but some might include him under the term "holistic" because he advocates dietary solutions when possible. His beliefs are backed up by conventional science. He does not just say mammograms are useless - he shows that using published, peer-reviewed studies. Other doctors that would be considered holistic might be providing treatments that are useless or even harmful and are based on vague ideas rather than science.

But when you start suggesting that alternative medical practitioners are being murdered by the AMA or the government or whatever, that's when you lose me completely.

Just to be clear I'm not saying AMA or gov is killing alternative Dr's. However, the FDA/gov can threaten to close down a Dr's practice, which it apparently did with Dr Bradstreet and some of the others, and that intense pressure can lead some Dr's to suicide.

There is no doubt a current ramped up AMA/gov push for mandatory vaccines, and it's not unreasonable to think anti-vaccine Dr's
s are going to clash with the AMA, and the clash can't lead to anything good. Especially for someone as educated and articulate as Bradstreet was.

As for vaccines saving lives from polio, etc, can't be denied. However, back in the 60's you got maybe 2 or 3 vaccines, polio, measles. Today it's far more, with questionable added substances, that FOR SURE haven't been studied properly.

[BlueHeron]

Just to be clear I'm not saying AMA or gov is killing alternative Dr's. However, the FDA/gov can threaten to close down a Dr's practice, which it apparently did with Dr Bradstreet and some of the others, and that intense pressure can lead some Dr's to suicide.

OK, I don't understand then. Exactly why did you list these three deaths under a heading about the holistic movement being under attack? Only Dr. Bradstreet's death is considered a suicide. You specifically said that one was a murder and that the cause of the other was unknown (though from descriptions, it sounds like a heart attack). There is no evidence that either of the other two doctors was having any difficulty with the FDA.

So what exactly were you trying to suggest? Because, frankly, all I can see there is what looks like an effort to cause panic.

Also, you say that Bradstreet contributed to the "peer-reviewed science" implicating vaccines in autism. There is no such peer-reviewed science, unless you're counting the one fraudulent paper that has since been retracted. I work for an actual peer-reviewed medical journal, by the way, and retraction is a huge deal, usually involving lawyers. It is never taken lightly.

[BlueHeron]

For anyone who is interested, here's a good summary of the actual scientific evidence on vaccines and autism with links refuting the "studies" that supposedly support a connection:
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skeptica ... -vaccines/