Visceral fat

[chris.]

Is it true that it is primarily saturated fat that's responsible for generating visceral fat around the organs? What about PUFA's and MUFA's? Excess starch and fruit?

I'm wondering if the McDougall diet alone can get rid of visceral fat. Sources I've read seem to say vigorous exercise is needed to get rid of visceral fat (but I'm sure these sources don't factor in a complete lifestyle change like WFPB). It makes more sense that the shedding of stubborn subcutaneous fat requires vigorous exercise.

[GeoffreyLevens]

Don't forget trans-fats and just plain old "too many calories".

[chris.]

What are the pathways through which visceral fat could be generated from a starch-based calorie surplus, though? As long as one isn't eating any overt fats during overfeeding, how can fat be stored around the organs?

[chris.]

I thought these were interesting.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24550191/

Excess ectopic fat storage is linked to type 2 diabetes. The importance of dietary fat composition for ectopic fat storage in humans is unknown. We investigated liver fat accumulation and body composition during overfeeding saturated fatty acids (SFAs) or polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs). LIPOGAIN was a double-blind, parallel-group, randomized trial. Thirty-nine young and normal-weight individuals were overfed muffins high in SFAs (palm oil) or n-6 PUFAs (sunflower oil) for 7 weeks. Liver fat, visceral adipose tissue (VAT), abdominal subcutaneous adipose tissue (SAT), total adipose tissue, pancreatic fat, and lean tissue were assessed by magnetic resonance imaging. Transcriptomics were performed in SAT. Both groups gained similar weight. SFAs, however, markedly increased liver fat compared with PUFAs and caused a twofold larger increase in VAT than PUFAs. Conversely, PUFAs caused a nearly threefold larger increase in lean tissue than SFAs. Increase in liver fat directly correlated with changes in plasma SFAs and inversely with PUFAs. Genes involved in regulating energy dissipation, insulin resistance, body composition, and fat-cell differentiation in SAT were differentially regulated between diets, and associated with increased PUFAs in SAT. In conclusion, overeating SFAs promotes hepatic and visceral fat storage, whereas excess energy from PUFAs may instead promote lean tissue in healthy humans.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19 ... 66/related

OBJECTIVE: Obesity is associated with increased metabolic and cardiovascular risk. The ectopic fat hypothesis suggests that subcutaneous fat may be protective, but this theory has yet to be fully explored.

CONCLUSIONS: Although adiposity increases the absolute risk of metabolic and cardiovascular disease, abdominal subcutaneous fat is not associated with a linear increase in the prevalence of all risk factors among the obese, most notably, high triglycerides.

[GeoffreyLevens]

What are the pathways through which visceral fat could be generated from a starch-based calorie surplus, though? As long as one isn't eating any overt fats during overfeeding, how can fat be stored around the organs?

I don't know what the pathways or slogans are except that all excess calories are ultimately converted into fat and stored. If I over eat no matter what it is, I immediately start to add a pot belly and increase insulin resistance. There is this and that research study, thermogenesis, yadayada, and then there is my daily experience. If I add more than my usual amount of starch calories, say by eating some more calorie dense options like bread or pasta, it only takes a few days before my abdominal "pinch an inch" is obviously, visually thicker, my entire abdomen gets rounder and sticks out a little more, and the numbers on my blood glucose meter start climbing.

If you have another explanation for that I would love to know what it is!

[Jumpstart]

Wow, first overeating starch won't make you fat and now overeating oils will simply grown you more muscle. It's truly a miracle that anyone in the America has even one excess pound of fat anywhere on their body. You kind of wonder how it's possible that junk food vegans gets fat since they don't eat any saturated fat. And since they eat a lot of olive oils you'd expect them to have the muscles of Arnold. Where do you people find these garbage studies and WHY are you looking? Isn't what Dr. McDougall tells you enough?

[dteresa]

I could pick an infallible guru whose every word is derived from golden tablets from on high and blindfold myself, put in ear plugs, and refuse to learn anything new or anything from anyone other than my guru. Or I could acknowledge that I have an intellectual part of my being and continue to read, to learn to evaluate ask questions and make my own decisions. Or not. Whatever floats your boat.

didi

[GeoffreyLevens]

Wow, first overeating starch won't make you fat and now overeating oils will simply grown you more muscle. It's truly a miracle that anyone in the America has even one excess pound of fat anywhere on their body. You kind of wonder how it's possible that junk food vegans gets fat since they don't eat any saturated fat. And since they eat a lot of olive oils you'd expect them to have the muscles of Arnold. Where do you people find these garbage studies and WHY are you looking? Isn't what Dr. McDougall tells you enough?

Entenmann's...Mmmmmmmmmm.... (Where's that Homer Simpson smilie when I really need it???)

[chris.]

Wow, first overeating starch won't make you fat and now overeating oils will simply grown you more muscle. It's truly a miracle that anyone in the America has even one excess pound of fat anywhere on their body. You kind of wonder how it's possible that junk food vegans gets fat since they don't eat any saturated fat. And since they eat a lot of olive oils you'd expect them to have the muscles of Arnold. Where do you people find these garbage studies and WHY are you looking? Isn't what Dr. McDougall tells you enough?

Coconut oil? Dark chocolate? Macadamia nuts? There are plenty of ways for vegans to get saturated fat.

Anyway, I don't really know what your problem is. Nutritional science is a relatively young field of study. While I don't believe in making things more complicated than they are (that's why I follow the McDougall diet), to imply that McDougall has all the answers is stepping into dietary dogma territory.

And you know, believe it or not, not all of us McDougallers take part in the "caloric restriction for ideal health and longevity!" circlejerk that goes on in every other thread. My T levels shot down and I became pretty much emaciated when potatoes were my primary starch, likely because I was so satiated by the potatoes that I couldn't get any more food down, thus leading to an unintentional calorie deficit. Many people thrive on calorie restricted diets, this has not been my experience. I apologize if that offends anybody.

I could pick an infallible guru whose every word is derived from golden tablets from on high and blindfold myself, put in ear plugs, and refuse to learn anything new or anything from anyone other than my guru. Or I could acknowledge that I have an intellectual part of my being and continue to read, to learn to evaluate ask questions and make my own decisions. Or not. Whatever floats your boat.

didi

Thank you didi. I appreciate that you often tend to question things, even if they don't always adhere to your worldview.

[viv]

I'm wondering if the McDougall diet alone can get rid of visceral fat. Sources I've read seem to say vigorous exercise is needed to get rid of visceral fat (but I'm sure these sources don't factor in a complete lifestyle change like WFPB). It makes more sense that the shedding of stubborn subcutaneous fat requires vigorous exercise.

Well haven't you just answered your own question when you stated that:

My T levels shot down and I became pretty much emaciated when potatoes were my primary starch, likely because I was so satiated by the potatoes that I couldn't get any more food down, thus leading to an unintentional calorie deficit.

Did your visceral fat go away when you became "emaciated" eating potatoes as your main starch?

Viv

[patty]

We learn by questions. I think I will never pass the one inch test. Oh well:) I am a happy eater. I love the fact I can expierence satiety from starch.

Mahalo, patty

[GeoffreyLevens]

Did your visceral fat go away when you became "emaciated" eating potatoes as your main starch?

I did same early on. Looked like an Xray, and I do not mean based on "popular culture" body image but more like you don't want to look. For me it does take regular vigorous exercise and low but not too low calorie intake. My genetics in this regard aren't the easiest so I have to thread a small needle than many but I think in general this still applies. You need to eat only as many calories as your body uses (small deficit for weight loss) and exercise regularly but not too much ("the middle path Grasshopper")

[baardmk]

That study sounds interesting, but it may not all that relevant as so often is the case. I don't think visceral fat melts away just by eating this diet. And I would believe most experts would be very sceptical in general about claims that certain foods affect body composition more than simple old excess. But this may be good news for this WOE, as being on a low-fat diet like this you will consume by proportion a lot more unsaturated fatty acids than saturated compared with most other dietary alternatives.

My speculation given that the study was accurate and had some validity would be that the changes seen were hormone-induced, increasing growth hormones. We pretty much know, right?, that higher fat (also unsaturated) are probably causally linked with cancers. I'll stay with the very low-fat approach, as I think I'm getting best results from that.

[GeoffreyLevens]

Don't know if I was clear in my post above but when I "starved" myself down to scary, I still had my little pot belly and insulin resistance.

[MarionP]

Coconut oil? Dark chocolate? Macadamia nuts? There are plenty of ways for vegans to get saturated fat.

Yep. Palm oil is a biggie. Looots of saturated fat in palm oil.